Guardian Cryptic 28,837 by Brummie

A challenging solve today – favourites were 10ac, 2dn, 4dn, and 13dn. Thanks to Brummie for the puzzle

There is a theme in the solutions of MISTAKE, INACCURACY, CLANGER, ERROR, TRIP, MISPRINT, OVERSIGHT, OMISSION, HOWLER, SLIP

ACROSS
1 MISTAKE
It’s wrong — it’s wrong to be seized by force (7)

anagram/"wrong" of (it's)*, inside MAKE="force"

5 SET TERM
Dog’s on master’s lead for a fixed period (3,4)

SETTER="Dog" + M-aster

9 GONNA
Going to try to get girl back (5)

GO="try" + reversal/"back" of ANN="girl"

10 RANDINESS
In manner and in essence, it’s lust (9)

hidden in manne-R AND IN ESS-ence

11 INACCURACY
Miscalculation, as one can put back clerical position (10)

I="one" + reversal/"back" of CAN + CURACY="clerical position"

12 SPAR
Soprano needs backing of beatbox (when given space) (4)

"when given space" is an instruction to split "beatbox" into beat + box

"box" is the definition

S (Soprano) + reversal/"backing" of RAP="beat"

14 IRON CURTAIN
Make hanging smoother? That was bad for international relations (4,7)

IRON="Make… smoother" + CURTAIN=something "hanging"

18 ADMIT DEFEAT
Own up to being beaten by cranky meat diet fad (5,6)

anagram/"cranky" of (meat diet fad)*

21 KISS
Plonker gets winter sports gear back to front? No, other way round (4)

definition: a plonker is a large kiss

SKIS="winter sports gear", with 'front to back' moving the first S to the end

22 ESTANCIERO
Possibly yielding to a sincere rancher (10)

definition: a cattle farmer

anagram/"Possibly yielding" of (to a sincere)*

25 TAIL LIGHT
Tip: solution to this clue is ‘warning device‘ (4,5)

TAIL="Tip" + LIGHT=solution to a crossword clue

26 KABUL
Sailor beset by bad luck without a cent acquires capital (5)

AB (able-bodied seaman, "Sailor"), inside anagram/"bad" of (luck)* minus 'c' for "cent"

27 PINT POT
A little port tipped into wine, is less capacity than you might like (4,3)

PT ("A little"/short for "port"), reversed/"tipped" inside PINOT="wine"

28 CLANGER
Bell family, say, turned against Romeo (7)

CLAN="family" + E.G.="say" reversed/"turned" + R (Romeo, NATO alphabet)

DOWN
1 MOGGIE
Minute gee-gee? That is a cat! (6)

MO=moment="Minute" as in 'just a mo / just a minute', + GG="gee-gee" + I.E.=id est="That is"

2 SUNDAE
Bananas used with an indulgent treat (6)

anagram/"Bananas" of (used an)*

3 ANARCHISTS
Disorderly types randomly crash trains — not right (10)

anagram/"randomly" of (crash trains)*, minus an 'r'="right"

4 ERROR
Feature of the French Revolution, being decapitated? Wrong (5)

[the Reign of] T-ERROR="Feature of the French Revolution", losing its head/first letter

5 SONG CYCLE
Dynasty Ride — is that one from Schubert? (4,5)

Schubert wrote a number of song cycles

SONG=imperial dynasty of China + CYCLE="Ride"

6 TRIP
Journey is a dopey thing to do (4)

double definition

7 EXEMPLAR
Former representative and city Republican confiscates Ecstasy specimen (8)

EX="Former" + MP (Member of Parliament, "representative") + LA (Los Angeles, "city") + R (Republican); all around E (Ecstasy)

8 MISPRINT
Note on career that doesn’t read right (8)

MI="Note" as in do-re-mi + SPRINT="career" in the sense of 'move quickly'

13 ARCTIC SKUA
Seabird‘s bow and nervous response upset other birds (6,4)

ARC="bow" + TIC="nervous response" + reversal/"upset" of AUKS="other birds"

15 OVERSIGHT
Failure to notice a number of balls put on view (9)

OVER="a number of balls" in cricket + SIGHT="view"

16 BACKSTOP
Pots (as we might put it) are something useful in baseball (8)

definition: a barrier behind the home plate in baseball

BACKSTOP in a crossword clue/"as we might put it" could indicate a reversal/"back" of STOP, giving "Pots"

17 OMISSION
It excludes nothing, a spacecraft’s task? (8)

O="nothing" + MISSION="a spacecraft's task"

19 BEDBUG
Here you can drop off surveillance device, sucker! (6)

BED="Here you can drop off" + BUG="surveillance device"

20 HOWLER
Primate‘s boob (6)

double definition: a howler monkey, or a blunder

23 ANTIC
Silly action of political party, welcoming back international terrorist leaders (5)

ANC (African National Congress, "political party") around/"welcoming" a reversal/"back" of I-nternational + T-errorist

24 SLIP
Young slender person? Drink up! (4)

reversal/"up" of PILS=type of lager="Drink"

69 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,837 by Brummie”

  1. Tim C
    Comment #1
    August 16, 2022 at 8:39 am

    I thought “possibly yielding” was a bit of an odd anagrind for ESTANCIERO, and wasn’t sure whether a plonker was a KISS.

    Favourites were SPAR for ‘beatbox’, STOP LIGHT for the reverse clue and the best, MISTAKE for the deceptive force=make.

  2. NeilH
    Comment #2
    August 16, 2022 at 8:45 am

    Clever. Indeed until I had the benefit of manehi’s explanation, SPAR was too clever for me – it was clear what the answer had to be but I couldn’t make the wordplay work.
    The surface for SUNDAE is so good the clue is almost an &lit. I particularly liked TAIL LIGHT, too.
    Thanks to Brummie and manehi.

  3. muffin
    Comment #3
    August 16, 2022 at 8:46 am

    Thanks Brummie and manehi
    Fairly straightforward except for the SW. I’ve never heard plonker for KISS, and couldn’t quite see hown it worked. I didn’t parse PINT POT either.
    Other compilers, Philistine for example, probably wouldn’t have included “when given space” in 12a. I’ve learned to look for “lift and separate” clues, so the addition in fact confused me.
    Favourites MISPRINT and ARTIC SKUA.

  4. Panthes
    Comment #4
    August 16, 2022 at 8:46 am

    Classic Brummie, fair and amusing, what a treat!
    Favourites; all of them but particularly IRON CURTAIN.
    Didn’t need help with parsing today, but thank you, manehi, and huge thanks to Brummie

  5. Widdersbel
    Comment #5
    August 16, 2022 at 8:50 am

    Thanks Brummie & manehi. I fairly breezed through this, very much on Brummie’s wavelength, except… I did notice there was more one word meaning mistake but didn’t even consider that was a theme, and I completely failed to spot the “beatbox with space” trick – was left wondering why “space” meant SPAR… doh!

    It’s very generous of Brummie to tell us we need to put the space in, Philistine wouldn’t have been so kind, but it only caused me confusion!

  6. khayyam
    Comment #6
    August 16, 2022 at 8:50 am

    Enjoyed this. Needed some parsings though, thanks for the blog. I actually found this easier than yesterday, somehow, but I think I was just not on Vulcan’s wavelength.

    I still don’t get LIGHT=solution to a crossword clue though?

  7. Widdersbel
    Comment #7
    August 16, 2022 at 8:51 am

    Cross-posted with muffin @3 – great minds…

  8. AlanC
    Comment #8
    August 16, 2022 at 8:51 am

    Yes IRON CURTAIN was also my favourite and my FOI, having stared for ages at an empty grid. Lots of ticks for a very clever puzzle all round. Also spotted the theme at the end. NHO of ESTANCIERO but fair.

    Ta Brummie & manehi

  9. Shanne
    Comment #9
    August 16, 2022 at 8:51 am

    That was satisfying as even I saw the theme and wondered about including ADMIT DEFEAT. Admittedly I didn’t parse all the bits of EXEMPLAR, but the rest all made perfect sense. New to me ESTANCIERO. I liked BACKSTOP, when I saw it, although that SW corner held out to last.

    Thank you to manehi and Brummie.

  10. Shanne
    Comment #10
    August 16, 2022 at 8:55 am

    Khayyam @6 light is what the space you fill in on a crossword grid is called. Light is a nice ambiguous word, also meaning window and/or window pane. (I’m playing on this building a geocache puzzle).

  11. Paul, Tutukaka
    Comment #11
    August 16, 2022 at 8:59 am

    I really enjoyed this with favourite being RANDINESS for the clever hidden, though it could be SPAR now its been explained. SUNDAE is an &lit (over here at least). I’ve come across LIGHT=solution to a crossword clue previously in these blogs, but can someone please explain?
    Thanks manehi and Brummie.

  12. Nuntius
    Comment #12
    August 16, 2022 at 9:00 am

    I also struggled with the south west corner. Trying to fight off covid, which has given me a sort of brain fog among other things, certainly hasn’t helped. I especially liked ARCTIC SKUA and IRON CURTAIN. With thanks to both.

  13. DuncT
    Comment #13
    August 16, 2022 at 9:00 am

    I think KISS = X = “wrong” could be added to the theme.
    Thanks to manehi and Brummie

  14. Paul, Tutukaka
    Comment #14
    August 16, 2022 at 9:04 am

    Thanks Shanne@10 it looks like you answered my question before I asked it.

  15. muffin
    Comment #15
    August 16, 2022 at 9:05 am

    Widdersbel @7
    🙂

  16. Paul, Tutukaka
    Comment #16
    August 16, 2022 at 9:17 am

    Although I didn’t get the “lift and seperate” instruction in 12, I think it adds elegance to the clue.

  17. WordPlodder
    Comment #17
    August 16, 2022 at 9:21 am

    Very enjoyable. Spotted the theme early on but it didn’t help with my last few in, namely TAIL LIGHT, BACKSTOP and the unparsed PINT POT; not a term I’m familiar with. Despite the helpful instructions I was also slow to lift and separate for SPAR.

    I couldn’t parse EXEMPLAR either and can’t recall having seen ‘confiscates’ as a containment indicator before.

    Thanks to Brummie and manehi

  18. Bodycheetah
    Comment #18
    August 16, 2022 at 9:24 am

    Top marks for a hidden spanning four words – has any setter used more?

    Today’s earworm can only be Prince’s classic KISS

  19. Geoff Down Under
    Comment #19
    August 16, 2022 at 9:25 am

    Interesting theme, good fun. I’d only learnt last week from another puzzle that a plonker was a British dill, and now I find there’s another meaning! (Which was nowhere to be found in several of the references I consulted — but I found it eventually.)

    Hadn’t heard of ESTANCIERO, and was unaware that pilsener was able to be abbreviated.

    My favourite was IRON CURTAIN.

  20. Rob T
    Comment #20
    August 16, 2022 at 9:31 am

    I parsed MISTAKE more simply, as MIS-TAKE, but your version makes more sense, even if it is an indirect anagram *peers over glasses at setter*. I got TAIL LIGHT without knowing that a LIGHT was a solution to a crossword clue, but it’s definition 22 out of 22 in my Chambers! Every day’s a school day. I spotted the theme just about early enough for it to help with some of the more stubborn later clues. I thought RANDINESS was nicely hidden. BEDBUG and MISPRINT were both rather clever.

    I was almost defeated by ESTANCIERO as I hadn’t spotted the anagrind but had enough crossers, and a bit of lucky bunging-and-checking filled in the last gaps.

    An enjoyable puzzle, and no MISTAKE. Thanks both.

  21. Eileen
    Comment #21
    August 16, 2022 at 9:35 am

    I’m with muffin and Widdersbel in being bamboozled by the ‘helpful instructions’ for 12ac!

    I agree with NeilH re the clever SUNDAE and am inclined to agree with Paul @11 that it is &lit.

    I also liked the cleverly-hidden RANDINESS and ERROR. – not so keen on GONNA, though.

    I’m struggling to understand the definition in 27ac and think I’m being a bit dim.

    Thanks to Brummie for an enjoyable puzzle and manehi for the blog.

  22. Tim C
    Comment #22
    August 16, 2022 at 9:37 am

    Me @1 TAIL not STOP and I liked it not because it’s reverse (I was thinking of BACKSTOP which I also liked) but because of ‘solution to this clue = light’.

    GeoffDownUnder @19 I was also looking for a word meaning what Aussies would call a dropkick which put me off the Kiss solution for ages trying to think of other winter sports gear of 4 letters that translated to Dill or the like.

  23. Paul, Tutukaka
    Comment #23
    August 16, 2022 at 9:41 am

    Eileen@21, I had to look up PINT POT and found it relates to a say about trying to fit a quart into a pint pot.

  24. Geoff Down Under
    Comment #24
    August 16, 2022 at 9:44 am

    Tim C @22 a dropkick or maybe a bogan?

  25. Widdersbel
    Comment #25
    August 16, 2022 at 9:44 am

    Eileen @21 – I assumed “less capacity than you might like” was an allusion to trying to fit a quart into a pint pot. Slightly loose as a definition, perhaps, but works well enough for me.

  26. Eileen
    Comment #26
    August 16, 2022 at 9:55 am

    Many thanks, Paul and Widdersbel – I was being dim! I was thinking a pint of beer was a pretty reasonable measure. 😉

  27. khayyam
    Comment #27
    August 16, 2022 at 10:23 am

    Thanks Shane @10.

  28. Tim C
    Comment #28
    August 16, 2022 at 10:26 am

    Geoff Down Under @24, both bogan and galah have one too many letters.
    Eileen @26… or maybe a pint pot is just not enough. Better go down the grog shop and get a flagon (1 quart) or a 4 litre (2 quarts) goon bag of Cab Sav.

  29. Petert
    Comment #29
    August 16, 2022 at 10:27 am

    I followed Roz’s helpful advice from the other day and scrutinised the little words, so, for once, was on Brummie’s wavelength today. That didn’t stop me trying to make something out of SLED and DEL’S for the plonker and winter sports equipment, though.

  30. Median
    Comment #30
    August 16, 2022 at 10:30 am

    Why is a ‘light’ a crossword clue? I was told long ago that it’s because the answers to clues are written on the light-coloured squares.

  31. Ronald
    Comment #31
    August 16, 2022 at 10:41 am

    Just couldn’t get or see SPAR, even with two crossers firmly in place. Struggled finally with the SE corner, never saw KISS as a plonker, prefer the more passionate kind!, TAIL LIGHT, BACKSTOP and PINTPOT very gradually and slowly revealed themselves. Strictly a DNF this morning…

  32. peterM
    Comment #32
    August 16, 2022 at 11:04 am

    Median@30: I think it could be that when you solve a clue, you see the light.

  33. Robi
    Comment #33
    August 16, 2022 at 11:07 am

    I saw the theme but it didn’t help me much.

    Why did I put in ARCTIC tern? Because it fitted, doh! Eventually I realised it wouldn’t work. I liked the well-hidden RANDINESS, IRON CURTAIN for the two meanings of hanging, MISPRINT for the surface, and BACKSTOP for the reversal.

    Thanks Brummie and manehi.

  34. Robi
    Comment #34
    August 16, 2022 at 11:10 am

    … I normally think of a light as a light-coloured square, but thanks to RobT @20, I see it’s also used for the solution.

  35. northnorthwest
    Comment #35
    August 16, 2022 at 11:19 am

    Very difficult. I finished but I don’t know how. I just bunged in several without being able to parse them, so manehi’s explanations were very useful. The “beatbox” kind of clue I’d never be able to get in a million years!

  36. essexboy
    Comment #36
    August 16, 2022 at 11:20 am

    [Geoff @19, since you’re Down Under, you probably missed out on this series of ads for Holsten PILS in the 80’s.

    Curiously, there was a thing the other day on the BBC website about Miriam Margolyes and how she now ‘looks up to bogans’. When I look up to bogans, I find I’ve misspelt Petert’s reverse Delboy’s.]

  37. essexboy
    Comment #37
    August 16, 2022 at 11:21 am

    I should of added that I realy licked the crossword (and the thmee). Thanks Bumble and maniac.

  38. Tim C
    Comment #38
    August 16, 2022 at 11:25 am

    It’s not clear to me why it’s called a light although it’s defined in Chambers as “a hint, clue, help towards understanding…. in a crossword, the word (or sometimes an individual letter in the word) on the diagram that is the answer to a clue…..”
    I’ve known the term for over 40 years, since the days I used to do The Listener crossword where it would often appear in the preamble. I suspect it’s a mixture of the ideas of window (like the non-dark squares) and the idea of enlightenment as Chambers suggests.
    Val Gilbert, the crossword editor for the Telegraph from 1976 to 2006 has a book called “A Display Of Lights (9): The Lives and Puzzles of the Telegraph’s Six Greatest Cryptic Crossword Setters”

  39. muffin
    Comment #39
    August 16, 2022 at 11:30 am

    Not a lot of point in writing the answers in the black squares!

  40. Tim C
    Comment #40
    August 16, 2022 at 11:33 am

    Not a lot of point trying to look through a brick wall!

  41. Roz
    Comment #41
    August 16, 2022 at 11:44 am

    Thanks for the blog, really enjoyed this . As mentioned by Bodycheetah, RANDINESS is very well hidden. Agree with other favourites mentioned.
    Minor quibble, I would prefer not to have the extra hint for the Playtex clue for SPAR , or the reversal for BACKSTOP .

  42. michelle
    Comment #42
    August 16, 2022 at 11:51 am

    Liked BEDBUG, CLANGER, MISPRINT, OMISSION.

    Did not understand def of 12ac (S + rev of RAP).
    I did not parse 1d.

    New: PLONKER = kiss.

    Did not see the theme.

    Thanks, both.

  43. Cliveinfrance
    Comment #43
    August 16, 2022 at 12:01 pm

    TimC Muffin RobT and others

    This is a link to crossword unclued which has a good explanation of “lights”. There is a lot of info and advice for enthusiasts of crossword, and a very good tribute to Rishi a former blogger who died in April

    https://www.crosswordunclued.com/2016/06/lights-white-squares-in-crossword-grid.html

  44. TW
    Comment #44
    August 16, 2022 at 12:01 pm

    Does the BUG (=flaw in a system, esp. a computer) in BEDBUG count as a theme word?

  45. muffin
    Comment #45
    August 16, 2022 at 12:09 pm

    Cliveinfrance @43
    Thanks for that. Nothing to do with white squares, then!

  46. Geoff Down Under
    Comment #46
    August 16, 2022 at 12:10 pm

    essexboy @36, thanks for that link. Miriam’s three programs have aired very recently here, and were well worth a look. Australia, warts and all. Make sure you watch them on the Beeb!

  47. 1961Blanchflower
    Comment #47
    August 16, 2022 at 1:03 pm

    Good spot TW@44, I would say BUG belongs in the list.

    Very enjoyable thanks Brummie. And thanks to manehi for sorting out SPAR and the rest. ESTANCIERO was unsurprisingly unfamiliar but pretty clear. SKUA and auks are handy for setters.

    I was surprised Pils isn’t known as a drink everywhere, originally from Pilsen in the Czech Republic, but brewed all over as far as I know.

    RANDINESS was well disguised, and finding all the mistakes was fun.

  48. Ark Lark
    Comment #48
    August 16, 2022 at 1:33 pm

    Enjoyable but brief fun. As others have observed, this seemed on the easy side. Some definitions fairly leapt off the page eg 18a

    Favourite was PINT POT

    thanks Brummie and manehi

  49. Valentine
    Comment #49
    August 16, 2022 at 1:50 pm

    14d I think that curtain is not so much “something hanging” as just a “hanging.”

    New to me: PLONKER, ESTANCIERO (though i knew “estancia,” so it wasn’t a stretch),

    Robi@33 I put in ARCTIC tern because I’d heard of it, but the tern part wouldn’t parse. Eventually the A from CLANGER make me think of another kind of bird — or two kinds, come to think of it.

    Got the whole thing last night. Thanks, Brummie and manehi.

  50. Moth
    Comment #50
    August 16, 2022 at 3:19 pm

    Just wrangled the last two to the floor (SPAR & MISPRINT). I find it very pleasing when a clue that’s been fighting back finally surrenders. As I was doing it I thought to myself ARCTIC SKUA is quite an easy one for those with a working knowledge of British seabirds (eg me), but must have been a tricky one for others.

    I looked for a theme, but didn’t find it! Major failing there! 😉

    Now to read all the comments. I do like this site.

  51. paul b
    Comment #51
    August 16, 2022 at 3:45 pm

    Thanks for that link, CIF @ 43

  52. CynicCure
    Comment #52
    August 16, 2022 at 4:00 pm

    Quite a testing crossword for me. Thanks manehi for a couple of explanations (SPAR and PINT POT).
    I wondered if the KISS acronym (keep it simple, stupid) was another nod to the theme?

  53. Paul
    Comment #53
    August 16, 2022 at 4:09 pm

    That was good fun and quite Tuesday-ish I thought. Favourites were RANDINESS and BACKSTOP. ‘Light’ = crossword clue answer is my learning for today, along with ESTANCIERO being acceptable as an English word. Never seen ‘pt’ as an abbreviation of ‘port’; is it the drink or the opposite of starboard? Thanks Brummie and Manehi.

  54. Simon S
    Comment #54
    August 16, 2022 at 4:45 pm

    Paul @ 53 I think it’s cartographic, eg Pt Talbot.

  55. sheffield hatter
    Comment #55
    August 16, 2022 at 4:50 pm

    Paul @53. I also wondered about ESTANCIERO being acceptable as an English word, and I found it in Chambers under “estancia”. PT as an abbreviation for ‘port’ is also in Chambers, but I was surprised to find it in lower case (pt), as I’d expected it to be used on maps where space is at a premium, such as Pt Talbot, perhaps. I found it in Longmans Dictionary online, with the example of Pt Moresby.

  56. Sadoldsweat
    Comment #56
    August 16, 2022 at 5:33 pm

    I don’t understand how TAIL LIGHT is a warning device. Stop light or brake light might work but tail light?

  57. muffin
    Comment #57
    August 16, 2022 at 5:35 pm

    Sadoldsweat @56
    Warning you not to run into the car in front when it’s dark?

  58. Jay in Pittsburgh
    Comment #58
    August 16, 2022 at 5:39 pm

    What a fun puzzle! My new word for the day: PLONKER (I assume this is British?)

  59. Gazzh
    Comment #59
    August 16, 2022 at 7:39 pm

    Thanks manehi as I didn’t get the instructions in 12a either, but while the clue works without the ‘hint’ I agree with Paul@16 that it works with the surface. At least I am not the only one to miss that point and I wonder how many people took as long as I did to get essexboy’s pun@36? Is it too late to ask you to get your cagoule (I understand that the dry spell has broken)? Thanks Brummie, very enjoyable and certainly not too easy for me.

  60. AndrewTyndall
    Comment #60
    August 16, 2022 at 8:10 pm

    Did anyone else call hard confectionery a “sucker” as a child? I so wanted 19D to be a peppermint “humbug” before settling for BEDBUG. Remember “gobstoppers”?

  61. essexboy
    Comment #61
    August 16, 2022 at 8:38 pm

    [Thanks Gazzh @59 – it didn’t quite sleigh ‘em in the aisles, did it? Luge disappointment.]

  62. CanberraGirl
    Comment #62
    August 16, 2022 at 8:55 pm

    I thought this was Boris themed. As well as all the mistake words there was also KABUL , set term, randiness. I really enjoyed this – thanks Brummie.

  63. CanberraGirl
    Comment #63
    August 16, 2022 at 9:03 pm

    And Admit Defeat

  64. muffin
    Comment #64
    August 16, 2022 at 9:59 pm

    CanberraGirl @63
    Can’t be Boris, then 🙂

  65. Andy
    Comment #65
    August 16, 2022 at 10:40 pm

    Eileen @ 21

    GONNA in the same league as yesterdays’s ATTAGIRL!

    Also not keen.

  66. Marienkaefer
    Comment #66
    August 16, 2022 at 11:06 pm

    Thanks to Brummie and manehi.
    Relatively gentle for Brummie I thought, but entertaining. Favourite, as a passionate Schubertian, was 5dn.
    13dn made me think of Bonxie (although that is the great, not the Arctic skua), who hasn’t set for a number of years.

  67. tim the toffee
    Comment #67
    August 17, 2022 at 12:10 am

    A bit late doing this one…24 hours, but very satisfying. ESTANCIERO was new but guessable. ARCTIC SKUA favourite.
    Re Andy@65….I got GONNA thanks to ATTAGIRL which I didn’t. Missed the parsing of a couple including SPAR.

    Thanks to Brummie and manehi.

  68. Calgal
    Comment #68
    August 17, 2022 at 1:22 am

    The “given space” actually helped me get SPAR. I potted the hidden word fairly early on, to my surprise, as hiddens often remain so for much longer.

    On 16d, I took “we” to mean “we British” rather “we crossword solvers” and spent far too long trying to justify it!

    Thanks, manehi, for answering the many I gave up on…

  69. Calgal
    Comment #69
    August 17, 2022 at 1:25 am

    Oh, I struggled on 5d — I had learned the dynasty as SUNG (Wade-Giles) in the days before Pinyin.

Comments are closed.