155 comments on “General Discussion”

  1. If anyone’s tearing their hair out with the Christmas Maskarade I sorted the clues into numerical order so they’re easier to find 🙂

    (1) mashed POTATOES (1 and 22),
    (2) CHRISTMAS (14) – or (2across 68) – arrives with
    (3) SETTERS’ (3, 41, 44)
    (5) BELLS (5, 10, 38) and
    (6) ANGEL (6down, two words) on top is decorated with
    (7) CRACKERS (7, 72, 76down) and
    (8) CHEESE (8, 27), followed by a
    (9) CARDS (9across’s, 43) are opened before
    (10) BELLS (5, 10, 38) and
    (14) CHRISTMAS (14) – or (2across 68) – arrives with
    (14) BOYS (14, 16)! And, finally,
    (15) GIRLS (15, 45) – but not for the
    (16) BOYS (14, 16)! And, finally,
    (17) GAMES (2down, two words, 17, 69, 71) finish off the celebrations.
    (19) SAUSAGES (19, 49, 80), accompanied by
    (22) mashed POTATOES (1 and 22),
    (24) TINSEL in strands (24s, 50).
    (27) CHEESE (8, 27), followed by a
    (34) PRESENTs (34, 56) for both the
    (36) The BIRD (36, two words) is served with
    (38) BELLS (5, 10, 38) and
    (39) DRINKS (39across, 57down, two words). After the
    (40) PARTY (40, two words) is in full swing.
    (41) SETTERS’ (3, 41, 44)
    (43) CARDS (9across’s, 43) are opened before
    (44) SETTERS’ (3, 41, 44)
    (45) GIRLS (15, 45) – but not for the
    (47) PARTRIDGE (47, two words) in a felled
    (48) GREENs (48, 59, 74across, 79) and
    (49) SAUSAGES (19, 49, 80), accompanied by
    (50) TINSEL in strands (24s, 50).
    (54) FATHER (54)
    (56) PRESENTs (34, 56) for both the
    (57) DRINKS (39across, 57down, two words). After the
    (59) GREENs (48, 59, 74across, 79) and
    (60) PUDDINGs (60, 75) come three items before
    (61) The TREE (61,62) with
    (62) The TREE (61,62) with
    (68) CHRISTMAS (14) – or (2across 68) – arrives with
    (69) GAMES (2down, two words, 17, 69, 71) finish off the celebrations.
    (71) GAMES (2down, two words, 17, 69, 71) finish off the celebrations.
    (72) CRACKERS (7, 72, 76down) and
    (74) GREENs (48, 59, 74across, 79) and
    (75) PUDDINGs (60, 75) come three items before
    (76) CRACKERS (7, 72, 76down) and
    (76) PEAR TREE (76across).
    (79) GREENs (48, 59, 74across, 79) and
    (80) SAUSAGES (19, 49, 80), accompanied by
    (81) CAROL (81) about a

  3. I will add my thanks , I kept looking through the preamble for a particular number and missing it on a quick scan so having to check again carefully .

  5. This is not a crossword comment, so apologies for making use of the forum for something else, but Roz, please, if you see this can you please tell me what is the sparkly star that I’ve been seeing for about a month now. Low in the sky, towards north-north-east (I’m in the Charente of course), and most amazingly it seems to sparkle white, red and green. And I promise I’ve not been hitting the Bordeaux too much over Christmas 🙂

  6. Hello Trish glad you are looking at the stars. I suspect it is Arcturus , our third brightest single star, it is usually red/orange but it does seem to flash when low in the sky due to atmospheric effects.
    What time are you seeing it ? The position rotates through the night, give me a rough time and NNE I can check on my planisphere.

  7. Thank you so much, Roz. I knew you’d put me out of my misery. I’m seeing it on a clear night around 22h00, but that’s just when I let the dogs out. It’s undoubtedly there before and after. One night I could see two more of them, higher and further east. With binoculars the red and green lights really show up.

  8. Arcturus it is, very low in NNE at 22.00 , too low for me to see , it rises later here , but you are further South. The other two are probably Castor and Pollux, the twins of Gemini.

  9. Many thanks again, Roz. Know all about Castor and Pollux of course, so thrilled to have those two up there. Will read up about Arcturus. And I’ll have another look tonight. Brilliant. I’m really pleased. Can tell everyone now – See, I knew they weren’t b……. aeroplanes!

  10. copmus, White Lady Bay is part of Horseshoe Bay, the last little Bay on its eastern arm before the open ocean. I got to it by walking at low tide round the little promontory that juts out just to its south. Someone had told me about this interesting old guy camping out there.

  11. Thank you, bodycheetah, for your help with the Christmas Maskarade. I did manage to solve it, but I would like explanations for a few of the clues. Will there be a fifteensquared?
    A happy new year to everyone.

  14. Hello everyone, I’m a relative newbie to crosswordland, and have been following this blog (without posting) for a few months now. Thanks to the blog I have got better at analysing clues, but find I am often stuck for the right synonyms or abbreviations to insert. In this context, I wonder if anyone here would have any recommendations as to which crossword dictionary to use (of course, I would not want to cause offence by suggesting that anyone here would need to use one, but maybe some of you did as beginners). The two I have found are Chambers and Bradfords and wonder if there was a preference for one or the other. I actually looked on the FAQ before coming here, but found nothing there.

    While I am here, I keep on coming across two terms both on 15×15 and the Guardian site which make no sense to me. These are ‘Tea Tray moment’ and ‘Jorum’. I looked up jorum (a large drinking bowl?), but can’t really see any relevance to Xwords. Any enlightenment would be appreciated

  15. Welcome ScaredofVlad. Me too.
    Chambers seems to be regarded as the oracle, though I have no personal experience.
    A tea tray moment is simply a higher order of magnitude of a penny-drop moment.
    Jorum was “discovered” by Eileen and has since come to represent any solution someone arrives at solely from the wordplay and is pleasantly surprised to find the word actually exists.

  16. ScaredofVlad @14 there are perhaps three types of assistance for solvers.

    Dictionaries – Chambers is the standard, especially for barred puzzles, Collins is very good, the OED is very comprehensive. You do really need any of these unless you move on to Azed etc.

    Crossword Dictionaries – You mention Chambers and Bradford, I have never used these but maybe other people can give you good advice.

    Thesaurus – I got a basic Chambers thesaurus when I started puzzles. Perfect for synonyms of thousands of words and useful lists in the back . I found this the most useful when I was a beginner .

  17. I would also encourage you to comment and ask questions in the blogs. People are always delighted to help newer solvers , we all know what it was like initially. The Everyman crossword is aimed at newer solvers and has a blog a week later . I learnt how to do cryptics using Everyman , carried it around all week.
    You will soon be NotScaredofVlad.

  18. ScaredofVlad – I’ve been attempting to solve cryptic crosswords on and off for the best part of 40 years but still need help sometimes. I can vouch for Chambers Crossword Dictionary being excellent (though I use it more for setting than solving). I have Bradford’s blue book (lists), which is also excellent, but not the red book (dictionary), though I know it is highly regarded – I should get a copy. The advantage of both over a regular thesaurus is that they include those specific crosswordese meanings as well as lists by category (rivers, towns etc). Chambers also has a list of many of the common indicators (anagram, reversal, container etc) you will come across in clues.

  19. ScaredofVlad, have you ever spent ages trying to solve a clue then realised the answer is obvious? Did that make you feel like this?

  20. Last time someone asked about JORUM here, I wrote a really good clue (no, really) for the word in its Eileenian meaning, which I can’t remember now. Someone really ought to add an explanation of how this word is used here to the FAQ.

  21. Thank you to everyone for their kind and helpful replies. I will order the Chambers Crossword Dictionary (from Hive.co.uk) and see how I get on. And thank you to Roz for the words of encouragement – at this stage I am most at home with Everyman and the Monday puzzles. As for not being ScaredofVlad, that’s some way in the future – I just hope I don’t get KilledbyVlad in the meantime!

  22. ScaredofVlad, the origin of Jorum is I believe this comment by Eileen on a clue which resulted in the word JORUM (which is indeed a bowl)….

    J Endless task, getting drink for punchbowl? (5)
    JORUM
    JO[b] [task] + RUM [drink] – isn’t it satisfying to construct an unlikely-sounding word from the wordplay and then look it up and find out that it does exist? [Collins: ‘prob. after Jorum, who brought vessels of silver, gold and brass to King David [II Samuel 8:10]’

    It’s in this 2015 blog.

    As others have said it’s a neologism coined by Eileen.

    I can’t comment on Bradfords because I don’t have it (it’s on the purchase list). I’ve recently bought Chambers Crossword Dictionary and use it regularly. It’s great for setting crosswords (the introductions by Jonathan Crowther – Azed, Don Manley and others are useful by themselves) and for solving if you’re stuck, or looking for a synonym.

    As far as “tea tray moment” goes, it’s when you finally solve a clue and it must be something metal larger than a penny that has dropped on your head. For an example see here. 🙂

  23. Tim C @22, re JORUM
    I have more than once admitted that I was not actually the one who coined this neologism – but I’m very happy that it caught on.
    In the comments on the blog that you provided the link for, Marienkaefer @ 27 wrote
    ‘Eileen – your comment on Jorum reminded me of my late mother who loved clues where you put together a word you had never heard of, and then looked it up to find it does indeed exist. I shall think of them as “Jorums” from now on’
    I think I subsequently said that I would, too, and others gradually followed suit.

  24. For anyone interested: my (more-or-less) complete history of the Guardian Crossword was published by Alan Connor in his weekly blog on the Guardian website today. It can be found here.

  25. I just came across this blog, and I’m wondering if you can answer a question I have. The Guardian has (for free!) a bunch of crosswords: their “Cryptic Crossword”, but also Quick, Quiptic, Speedy, Everyman, Genius, and Azed. Is it possible to rank these from easiest to hardest?

  26. Quick crossword aside (as it’s a different beast) the Speedy is probably the easiest but apart from that I would say they are generally in the order you have them above. Sometimes the Everyman is very easy and sometimes a bit harder, and the spectrum of easy to hard within the daily Cryptic is very wide – and different for each solver.

  27. Doctor B @ 25 I will add my views to Mitz, it is only opinions of course.
    I would say the Speedy and Quick are very similar , no cryptic clues, generally on the harder side for these non-cryptic puzzles.
    Everyman is aimed at the newer solver and has settled down very well in this role.
    The Quiptic has a similar role, I never do it because it is not in the paper but people say it varies but is generally pretty friendly.
    As Mitz says, the Guardian cryptic varies a lot with setters but nowhere near as much as in the past, Monday is the traditional slot for newer solvers but there is no real pattern for the rest of the week.
    Genius is not in the paper so I do not do it, I believe it is harder than the cryptic and has an extra theme/puzzle aspect.
    Azed is simply the finest crossword in the world, not for the faint-hearted but any cryptic solver can have a go and improve with practice.

  28. Azed has a very “old school” style – would probably still get a nod of approval from Ximenes if he were around to see it. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, but anyone who has a problem with the lists of accepted abbreviations and jargon you have to learn to do standard cryptics will find Azed even more perplexing – he has a wide repertoire of devices he has accumulated over his 50 years, that will be familiar to longstanding solvers but I don’t attempt his puzzles often enough to have learned most of them. All scrupulously fair, of course, just a bit too mechanical for my tastes. That aside, some of his “specials” are well beyond my capabilities – eg Playfair and Printer’s devilry.

    I occasionally dabble with the Genius but have never completed it before the deadline. It seems to be a lot more modern in its style of clueing than Azed. I think what sets the Genius and similar puzzles apart from regular cryptics is not the difficulty of the clues per se but the fact that you often need to treat the solutions in some way before entering them in the grid, which means you need to do a lot of “cold solving” – ie solving the clues individually without reference to the grid, so you don’t get the help of crossing letters. For this reason, I think you need to be a reasonably proficient solver with regular cryptics before you can attempt the Genius, whereas an Azed plain puzzle should be approachable for anyone moderately competent – aforementioned quirks notwithstanding.

    You do get some like Maskarade’s specials that are halfway houses between regular cryptics and Genius type puzzles. I always liked Araucaria’s alphabetical jigsaws, which also had that cold-solving element, though applying a small degree of logic meant you could usually start entering them into the grid with only a small handful of clues solved.

    Roz, you might enjoy the Genius – you should persuade one of your tame IT minions to print it out for you. (PS re your comment on Io on the Guardian thread today – I solved a whole two clues on my first pass through it! My brain wasn’t fully in gear when I looked at it this morning. I’m going to come back to it later when I can savour it properly.)

  29. Worth noting that, being a ‘barred’ (not ‘blocked’) crossword, the entries in Azed can be very obscure and it’s essential to have a copy of Chambers Dictionary to hand when solving. (Btw, Widdersbel, the Azed occupies the same slot that Ximenes used to fill and I believe Azed, the setter, his successor, emulates his predecessor in every way.)

    The Genius has the added incentive of a cash prize (£100 when – ahem – I won it).

  30. Tony you are a Genius.
    I usually complete Azed without using Chambers, the clues are so good that you can build and enter the obscure words with confidence. I do check everything afterwards but my target is a 30 minute solve so no checking.

    Widdersbel I only really like to do “live” crosswords on the day in the paper, so no Genius. If you like cold solving then try an Azed Carte Blanche, no bars in the grid, you have to add your own . The clues do not have the lengths given which adds to the difficulty.

  31. Tony – yes, exactly what I was alluding to with the Ximenes reference. Though I’m sure Azed’s style has evolved in some ways over the last 50 years.

    Roz – Carte Blanche? Yeah, maybe one day…

  32. A bit like an alphabetical jigsaw , but no starting grid and not in alphabetical order.
    No answer lengths is the worst thing, the word play more difficult when you do not know how many letters you need.

  37. Bridgesong in his blog of Paul’s Prize puzzle 28,961 refers to the classic GEGS (9,4) clue – where the answer is SCRAMBLED EGGS – and says it is unsound because it lacks a definition and anagram indicator. I’m no expert on clue terminology or soundness, but if you label it a “reversal &lit”, would it not be sound? The definition and anagrind are both contained in the answer, instead of the clue. Or am I missing something?

  38. It’s just a terrible clue. For a start, it’s an anagram of a four-letter word with only two letters transposed.

    I think it’s generally accepted that reverse anagrams need some kind of indication. So something like “gegs, cryptically” would be ok. But even if this is enough to suggest an anagram, you still need a straight definition to tell you what kind of thing it’s an anagram of. So:

    “Breakfast item in gegs, cryptically (4)” would be sound and fair. But also trivially easy.

    I thought Paul’s “breban gerad” clue was sound and fair because it has a straight definition, plus the question mark to indicate the funny business. It’s very silly, but it amused me.

  40. I’m with Widdersbel. It’s more of a dingbat (like these https://www.kensquiz.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Dingbats5Q.pdf ) than a cryptic crossword clue, although there is some crossover between the two.
    As far as I know, the clue was just made up by Andy Hamilton/Guy Jenkin for an episode of Drop the Dead Donkey when one of the characters (the grumpy Henry?) was stuck on it.
    You could have a similar device in ‘Stun (5,4)’ for MIXED NUTS – at least that one uses a real word, but you’d feel short-changed as a solver if that’s all there was to it, and ‘stun’ had no other significance.

  41. Twmbarlwm@40, I can’t give a reference, but I have a feeling that “SGEG” as a cryptic clue for ‘scrambled eggs’ had been around for some time when Andy Hamilton wrote it into DDD.

    I wrote about this clue in a comment on the relevant blog post. I also suggested that, with a definition and an indication of the reversed anagram it could be better. Where Widdersbel suggests the word ‘cryptically’ to indicate that, I thought a QM could suffice.

  42. Tony @41, you may be right, but I can’t imagine it appearing in a broadsheet cryptic pre-1990 where it would surely just annoy any solver already used to unpicking reverse and composite anagrams.
    I suppose it could have turned up in a jokey introductory cryptic somewhere, but to me it feels more like a daft joke written by someone who didn’t know much about cryptic crosswords – a joke easily memorised and spread by a lot of people who watched the show.

  43. Ah well, I liked it (also the “cox at me” clue referenced by Roz). I guess that says something about me.

  44. It works as a joke and as an unconventional clue, but I don’t think it’s tricky enough to have appeared in a real cryptic puzzle. Gegs sounds and looks too much like eggs too.
    There’s a similar Dingbat quality to Araucaria’s clue ‘Astany Portorm? (3,4,2,1,5)’, but at least it requires a bit more thought.
    I like his ‘Cox at me’ clue a lot more because there are no nonsense words, and it even makes sense if you imagine a rowing crew’s cox berating the writer. (The definition was implied by a link to another clue in the puzzle.) No doubt we’ve had this discussion before, apart from in the recent blog for Paul’s puzzle which I’ve now seen through Tony’s link.
    Plenty of people seem to like the occasional outré clue while others are not keen. Araucaria’s brilliance had something for everyone. (But if he wrote the GEGS clue ISMYHATHALL!)

  46. Roz – Hi (addressed to you as we occasionally communicate via this route, but clearly embracing anyone else who might be interested)

    It’s been a while since I have suggested a puzzle to you so, rather like the proverbial London bus, here are a couple: my latest from MyCrossword which seems to have met with some approval (https://mycrossword.co.uk/cryptic/927) and a link to Big Dave’s site where one of mine is appearing in Rookie Corner today (http://bigdave44.com/2023/01/16/rookie-corner-458/). No worries if you do not have time – though I suspect the morning light is not yet conducive to swimming …

    ATB. PM

  47. MrPostMark@46 many thanks for these I could have done with them today , I only do crosswords in the week on my journey home and today was a typical Guardian Monday.
    I will get them printed tomorrow, take Paddington to the IT office with his new label.
    I thought buses always come in threes? Due to the Poisson distribution .

    Only heavy rain stops us swimming, today it has switched to cold and clear so second swim soon.

  48. Cutbacks, Roz. Cost of living crisis. Misappropriation of funds. It’ll be cockup or conspiracy rather than probability waves …

    I assume the Poisson distribution explains them arriving in shoals?

  50. I’ll give an endorsement for PM’s Rookie Corner – found it very enjoyable this morning.

    Also, Roz, I took your advice from yesterday’s Everyman blog and have printed out this week’s Azed. A couple of answers leapt out at me straight away from glancing over it, which is a promising start!

  51. Widdersbel @50 in one sense Azed is easier than normal cryptics because every answer gives lots of letters , if you can get started. For this puzzle 1Ac gives nine first letters of other clues and they are always the most useful. The other long answers are pretty gettable as well.

  52. Mention of Big Dave’s website prompts me to ask if anyone has news of Dave himself. It’s been quite a while since he was reported as being rather ill. I’m afraid I’m no longer a regular visitor to the site, so wonder if I have missed any updates about that?

  53. As far as I know he home and recovering slowly. His mobility is not brilliant and he is taking an interest in things.

  54. MrPostMark@46 , got them printed with fairly limited fuss, my training is going well. Have done the first one , very impressive , is the five words idea significant ?
    I will give a shortened list , !0Ac for definition , 27Ac for Potteries dialect, 1D the best of all and 21D for deception .
    I did wonder about “academy” for 16D but Chambers gives you cover.

    I will try the other one tomorrow, my easy day, take it the beach.

  55. Hi Roz. I was trying consciously to produce something simple and less challenging and found that many of the clues, as a result, ended up with five words and simply felt that would become an interesting device to which to restrict myself right the way through the puzzle. It became a fun exercise in keeping it tight.
    BTW, I know you are normally very tactful in referring to puzzles; FIVE has been out on MyC for a while now so I suspect it won’t be visited again and the Rookie Corner one had the solutions, annotations and review from Prolixic published this morning. (And I got promoted! 😀 ) So no sensitivity on either.
    Really glad you enjoyed, setting as I do, considerable store by your opinion. Your ongoing support for any of us who volunteer a puzzle for your attention is enormously appreciated.
    ATB

  56. I do not think I have seen this idea of a set number of words , five or otherwise. I actually thought it was quite tricky , well written brief clues can be the hardest of all . An old Guardian setter, Fidelio , was very difficult with minimalist clues , once you solved a clue you realised it could not possibly be anything else.
    How did you know this meaning of CUT ? I thought it was very local dialect and is not in the dictionaries.
    I am always full of admiration for anyone who has a go at setting puzzles themselves . What is the next rank after Rookie ?

  57. I consider Genius and Azed challenging and usually doable. Some Geniuses and some Azeds have been the hardest puzzles I have tried, and some of them I could not complete, or even barely understand with the full solution laid out before me. (Printer’s Devilry–I have no clue.) I recently tried solving an Inquisitor and an Enigmatic Variations. The IQ I had mostly filled in, and a very general idea about how the nonsense answers needed to be filled in, but a good chunk of it relied on an unfamiliar (to me) theme, and I finally threw in the towel. Even reading the blog write-up, I had a hard time imagining that I would have stumbled across the folklore necessary for the endgame in my research. In contrast, I completed the EV successfully–quite complicated, too–but felt as though I would not have succeeded if I had not already been very familiar with the thematic material.

  58. Tilsit@53, thanks very much for the report. If you are in touch with him, please send very best wishes from Whynot. I guess it’s unlikely there will be the traditional ‘birthday’ party this year?

  59. MrPostMark@46 have done the second one. A crossword and sunshine and snow on the beach, what could be better ?
    I found this one a lot easier , do not know if that was deliberate. Will shorten my list, 11Ac for the penguin, 26Ac very neat , 2D cycling is clever , 13D for the definition .
    21D does work but I would say it is the only clumsy clue.

  60. Cineraria@57 , I would say that Printer’s Devilry is the only Azed form I do not like. You are not solving clues , just looking for a weak point in the sentence, they can be very dull although I do admire the skill involved in setting them. Fortunately they are nearly always a clue writing competition and I never enter those so sometimes I do not bother to finish .

  61. Mornin’ Roz. In answer to your queries, yes, the RC puzzle was certainly intended to be quite straightforward and accessible. And, yes, 21d probably is not as smooth – though the surface conjured up an image of a cleric with a recalcitrant golf buggy in my mind.

    I’m not sure what one becomes when no longer a Rookie but one can now have puzzles published on a different part of the BD site on a Saturday, along with a dedicated blog. It’s a rite of passage. As for cut, I have known that word all my life growing up in Worcestershire where we have plenty of canals. Indeed, our most recent family home was, at one point, a pub catering to the navvie community we understand. I’m afraid it’s not a word restricted to Staffordshire – if you have ever encountered the Aynuk & Ayli Black Country characters, plenty of their jokes and puns are cut-related.

    Glad you enjoyed the puzzles and thanks for making the time to both complete them and feed back.
    PM

  62. Roz @56 and PM ….. “cut” is to be found in Chambers (2014?) as “an excavation for a road, railway etc; a canal”. C1983 only has the first part of that, missing “a canal”. Neither are marked as dialect. Yes, I know you think that c9? is the standard. 🙂 I have a memory of the phrase “in the cut” from my early days in the NW.
    I’ve been enjoying you crosswords on MyC PM although I don’t comment much and I’ve been busy with a certain lady’s significant birthday celebrations recently. Still working on my 4th effort on there.

  63. Cut=canal is not in Chambers 93 , this is the first edition of “The Chambers Dictionary” and the definitive guide to crosswords, all other editions are inferior. I now have a “new” edition in mint condition and it is not allowed to go to the beach.
    I did not know this usage had spread but I suppose we have a duty to enlighten the inferior regions.

  64. Hmm, Roz. Worcestershire is South of Staffs so technically a nether region and I’m not sure those should ever be enlightened. Canal is the 3rd nounal definition for cut in Chambers online to which I subscribe but it wasn’t one I felt the need to check, having known it all my days. But I feel it is possibly too widespread to count as a dialect. Worcestershire is sufficiently far South of Staffs that the aforementioned illumination would be embarrassing which surely makes it a stretch to be covered by a single dialect?

    Tim C: thanks for input on both counts. Celebrated my own significant birthday on Tuesday. And published a new puzzle the day after: enjoy 😀 !

  65. Hi all – I was chatting with friends about the Everyman and cryptic crossword terminology. There is ‘anagrind’ to describe the part of the clue that refers to the existence of an anagram. Is there a similar word used to describe the part of the clue that indicates that the answer is found directly within the letters of 2 (or more) words? eg Starcross wordsmith has ‘Crossword’ within it?

  66. NZDave, I only know of “hidden indicator”, but there might be something else more jargony that I’ve missed.

  67. Anagrind is simply a portmanteau/contraction of “anagram indicator”. Elsewhere, I’ve seen people contract other indicators in similar ways, but I’m not going to repeat them here – really don’t want to encourage their use.

    Just use normal words, people. Not everything has to be reduced to jargon. It’s not just that these words are ugly, it’s that they’re less accessible for new solvers who come here looking for help and advice.

  68. Widdersbel@67,

    ‘Anagrind is simply a portmanteau/contraction of “anagram indicator”.’

    While that is certainly the origin of the term, there’s a little more to it than that, since ‘grinding’ has connotations of anagrammatization, which I think partly accounts for the wide promulgation of the term. Indeed, quite a well-known (and nicely deceptive) ‘anagrind’ is the word ‘ground’, the past participle of ‘grind’. In fact, I have seen ‘grind’ used as an abbreviation for ‘anagrind’ or as a synonym for ‘anagrammatize’, and even an extension of the false etymology in the use of ‘anagrist’, or simply ‘grist’ (i.e. that which is ground), to refer to the fodder of an anagram. (I don’t recommend emulation of such use.)

  69. Yes, I’ve seen “anagrist” and I have no trouble grasping the grind/grist analogy but that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

    On a site that aims to be helpful to solvers, plain English should be the norm.

    A number of bloggers have already moved away from terms like &lit for more user-friendly alternatives.

  70. I don’t object to anagrind, but I recently saw the ‘words’ reversicator and inserticator used to annotate clues.

    It made my teeth itch!

  76. Roz, PostMark and TimC.
    The New Cut is a canal that joins the Rivers Waveney and Yare. It was opened in 1833 to save vessels having to go through Yarmouth on the way from Lowestoft to Norwich. It will be known to readers of Coot Club by Arthur Ransome. The usage appears to predate any edition of Chambers.

  77. It seems that throughout history the good people of the Potteries have been willing to educate those from less fortunate areas.

  78. Not an Off-Grid Topic:
    Clearly, there are many grid arrangements that the Guardian makes use of. I would be interested to know the percentage that form two halves that are connected by only a couple of shared lights, whether diagonally, vertically or horizontally. Perhaps it’s because I find them unsatisfying aesthetically, and irritating to solve, that they seem to crop up quite frequently? (Those forming four quarters are the worst).

  79. Even though this page appears to be no longer used (the last post, @78, being dated 1 Feb 2023), I thought I would use it to deposit my suggested alternative clue for 8d in Brendan’s Guardian cryptic no. 29,012 on 8 March 2023. The answer is NON-RESISTANCE, and his clue engendered much discussion and argument about a property understood completely only by physicists, I feel. My alternative, based on a completely different idea, is as follows:
    “Once a sinner, reformed saint goes in for submissiveness (3-10)”

    I don’t wish to ‘own’ this clue, and any established or new setter can freely use it if they want. I would just add that my clue loses the thematic nature of the clue in the original puzzle.

  81. Tony @80
    Well, Brendan did! (He saw an opportunity to make a thematic clue for it and took it, whereas I had an idea without regard to the theme.)
    Thanks for your comment.

  82. I agree with Tony a great clue , but as you say it does not have an element for the original theme.
    I did not really mind the use of copper for this , it is wrong, but it is only in a crossword. The point is that copper (usually) does have a relatively low resistance compared to most things but compared to superconductors its resistance is massive. Try using copper for the eletromagnetic coils in a particle accelerator and you will not get very far.
    Since this is GD I will be even more pernickity , resistance is a property of objects, not materials. it depends on length and cross-sectional area, it is easy to make a copper wire with very large resistance. The intrinsic property of materials is called resistivity . ( Not something a setter, or solver, needs to make a fuss about ) .

  83. Roz @82
    Thanks for your informative comment. I’m not qualified in the subject, but I read books on physics for fun (!), and I fully understand your point on resistance and resistivity (but I had forgotten the latter term and its meaning).

  84. Resistivity is a bit like density . An element has a density (intrinsic) but the mass can be any value depending on the volume . It is only meanigful to compare densities ( or resistivity ) .

  85. Why does the Private Eye/Cyclops solution never appear until Monday, when the deadline for prize submissions is on the Friday? I usually save mine for the Sunday after the deadline and it’d be quite nice to be able to check the solutions straight away.

  86. Brock @85.

    It seems that it’s just one of those things.

    I’ve spoken to both beermagnet and mc_rapper67 – regular Eye bloggers – and we’ve agreed that Saturday makes more sense.

    Expect to see the change of publication date soon.

  88. I decided to have some fun with CHATGPT – https://chat.openai.com/chat
    The clue is 40 across in this week’s Inquisitor (1794). I honestly don’t think that CHATGPT will be solving Inquisitors for a long time to come.

    I asked:
    Can you solve this crossword clue: My costume’s no end of trouble – consequences of fungus? (7)

    It answered:
    The answer to this crossword clue is “athlete.”

    Explanation:

    The clue is a cryptic one, which means it has both a definition and a wordplay element.

    “My costume’s no end of trouble” is the definition part of the clue, which refers to the outfit worn by athletes during competitions.

    The wordplay part of the clue is “consequences of fungus,” which is a reference to athlete’s foot, a fungal infection that can affect the feet of athletes (and others). If we take the word “athlete” and add the letters that spell out “foot” (which are the consequences of the fungus), we get “athlete.”

    So, the answer to the crossword clue is “athlete.”

    So I said:
    It has a Y as the second letter

    It answered:
    I apologize for the mistake in my previous answer. Here’s a revised answer with the second letter as Y:

    The answer to the crossword clue with the second letter as Y is “anxiety.”

    Explanation:

    The clue is a cryptic one. “My costume’s no end of trouble” is the definition part of the clue, which refers to a feeling of unease or worry.

    The wordplay part of the clue is “consequences of fungus,” which is a reference to a type of infection called “ringworm.” If we take the word “ring” and add the letters that spell out “worm” (which are the consequences of the fungus), we get “ringworm.”

    So, if we take the word “anxiety” and remove the last letter (“no end”) and replace it with “ringworm” (the consequences of fungus), we get “anxiety” + “ringworm” = “anxiety.”

  89. Admin@88 – I think you’re being a bit hard on CHATGPT. I reckon that 40a is one of the across clues that generates an extra letter, so the clue isn’t designed for “straight” cryptic wordplay. I grant you that the bot’s responses don’t work very well, but you might at least supply the rubric for it to chew on.

  90. John @89

    Fair enough but give it a go yourself. I did:
    Be fussily busy making frame for skirt (6)
    In African country I picked up a little post (4)
    (both from today’s Guardian cryptic)

    To be fair, it had a decent go at the second one but I can’t help saying, “Ah, bless” as it gives its answers.

  92. Ahhh 🙁 I need my fix of James Brydon! 🙁 Only one Picaroon from last week. I see now recent Buccaneer or Rodriguez.

  93. @88 Admin.

    I feel cryptic crosswords might be the last bastion of human superiority over machines. They’ve beaten us at just about everything else.

  94. Does anyone know what has happened to the previously superb crossword-dictionary.com? It seems to have been replaced by a useless site, and since we always used the old one for filling in grids we’re at a loss!
    Any help would be welcome

  97. Thanks TimC@95 but that is the vastly inferior one, which is appearing at the same address, bizarrely. The previous one had maybe 20 times more suggestions for a pattern of letters, of course many were so obscure as to be unusable, but so many more interesting words. Testing that (newly appeared) crossword dictionary against others brings up half the number of words that appear in crossword solver.org, for instance.
    However thanks for the suggestions and Tony@96, we’ll try all!

  98. Sad to report that alberichcrosswords.com is no more. I just tried to visit the site to check something and was met with a holding page. It was inevitable that it would happen sooner or later but it’s still a bit of a shock.

    I wonder, did anyone ever get round to collating and compiling Neil’s wonderful articles? It would be sad indeed to think that all that wisdom is lost forever (although I expect it might still be possible to retrieve it via the wayback archive).

  99. Does anyone happen to know whether later editions of the Chambers Crossword Manual differ very much from earlier ones? My copy is the first edition from 1986 and I was just wondering if it would be worthwhile investing in a more up-to-date one.

    Part of the reason for asking is that I just happened to come across an old comment on this site (@69 on Guardian 24,591) which refers to “Mr Manley’s own book (Chapter 19: Basic Principles of Crossword Grammar)”. My copy only has 18 chapters! Or is the reference to another book by Don Manley, and if so which one?

    (Widdersbel @98: yes I found this out a few days ago. Sad indeed.)

  100. ^ Lord Jim, my copy is the 5th edition (2014): © Don Manley 2006, 2014, which implies new material, although I don’t have any previous editions to compare. I think that’s the most recent edition.
    There are 21 chapters in Part 1: From Definition to Cryptic. Those are 19 (as above), 20 Clues to Savour, and 21 Getting Started with Everyday Cryptics.
    Part 2: Advanced Cryptics has chapters 22-24; Part 3: Setting and Editing has c.25-26; Part 4 History Resumed is c.27; Part 5 is Solutions and Appendices 1, 2 & 3.
    I’d say it was worth updating to the new one, especially as the hardback is reasonably priced, and there may be new material inside the original chapters too anyway.
    Don himself will obviously know more, but I’m not sure how often he drops into this part of the forum.

  101. Lord Jim – My copy is the 2006 (fourth) edition, which has 28 numbered chapters/sections spread over three parts. Don M has mentioned in comments on the Guardian that the revisions include new examples – eg from newer setters who weren’t around when the first edition was published. My copy includes references to things like TEA and Sympathy, old crossword compiling software that no longer exists, so presumably those have been edited out as well. No idea how it differs apart from that.

  102. Also, in “Tips for setters”, he suggests: “Have access to the Internet if possible.”

    I just had a look at the government stats. Funny to think that as recently as 2006, only 57% of households in the UK had internet access. It’s 96% now, so I assume that advice has been updated.

  103. Many thanks Twmbarlwm and Widdersbel, that’s very helpful. It certainly sounds as if there’s quite a lot more in later editions, so I’ll probably go ahead and get one.

  104. Lord Jim, Don Manley won’t thank me for pointing this out, but if the latest edition costs more than you think you would like to shell out, there are various editions available second-hand for just a few pounds. Then again, if you have the funds and want the Last Word …

  105. Apart from it being best to buy new to support our mentors, it’s risky to buy secondhand books that have crosswords in them, despite what the sellers might say. A long time ago I ordered The Independent Book of Cryptic Crosswords (2005) – unavailable new, but this one was “almost as new” so I risked it. The previous owner had kindly solved half of the puzzles for me. Including some of Quixote’s!

  106. Is there a missing clue in today’s April Fool’s FT crossword? Or am I missing something?

  107. HR – in the preamble, it states “One unnumbered solution is split in two on the grid” – perhaps that answers the question?

    I’ve not looked at it properly yet – only just noticed the gap in the numbering sequence that led me to the FT site to investigate, and discovered there was a bonus puzzle yesterday! (It didn’t appear in the app, which jumps from Friday’s 17,373 by Leonidas to 17,375 by Gaff.)

  108. Thanks Widdersbel. But even allowing for that, I think we have 31 clues for 32 slots (from memory – don’t have the puzzle in front of me). However, I dare say there’s a subtlety I’ve missed

  110. I agree that there’s a missing clue (actually 30 clues for 31 slots) – unless this is the April Fool’s prank?

  112. HR @108 – Having now done all I can of Gozo’s puzzle, I agree there is definitely something fishy going on.

  114. I don’t think the FT are doing prizes now. I understand that the solution to 17374 won’t be published yet, but there is definitely something wrong. I don’t think that having errors in a puzzle counts as an April Fool, either.

    Just saying ……

  115. Bees@109, I tried the link, but I just got white space. Maybe it’s just very slow to load? Wasn’t sure how long I should wait.

  116. Hopping Rhino @108, Drake @114 – there will be a blog for FT 17,374 on Saturday, so if you can bear to wait, save any further discussion/airing of grievances for then…

  117. It seems that the FT has now started to produce two cryptics on Saturdays, one of which is available only on the app. Given that it is now well over two years since the FT stopped giving prizes, it would make sense if the blogs were to appear on the day of publication.

  118. I like the Saturday FT blog a week later, I only do the one in the paper, I usually do not get given it until Monday and I like to take my time just for this one. For newer solvers it is nice to have one puzzle where you can spend a week going back to it . Of course , if Pete wants to change then I will adapt to the change.

  119. Roz@118 There is nothing to prevent people doing puzzles after the blog has appeared if they don’t have the opportunity to do them on the day of publication, and being aware that the blog has become available would not be a problem for “late” solvers provided the blogger does not include spoilers in the preamble. The current practice is a hangover from pre-pandemic days when prizes were available. The FT used to have prize puzzles on a Monday as well, but when that was dropped the blogs for Monday puzzles began to appear on Mondays, and have been doing so for several years now. The problem with the present system is that the blogs for FT Saturday puzzles lack immediacy. And publishing the blog for both Saturday cryptics on the day of appearance would alert people to the fact that one of them does not appear in the print edition of the paper.

  121. Rudolf one issue is that the answers are not printed for a week in the FT each Saturday even though it is no longer a Prize puzzle. This site may not have permission to basically print the answers a week early. If Pete wants to change and is allowed to then fair enough, he is the volunteer and does all the work.

  122. Thanks, Roz. Perhaps Roger Blitz, the FT crossword editor could be consulted about this? It is possible that the week’s delay in publishing answers might be something that is also a hangover from the prize days. In any event, if the policy is now to issue an additional app-based puzzle on Saturdays there is a case to be made for that to be blogged by somebody other than Pete and on the day. This started with the monthly new-based puzzle issued on the last Saturday of each month, but last Saturday another app-based cryptic (FT 17375) appeared in addition to the Gozo April Fool puzzle (FT 17374) which appeared in the print edition.

  123. Rudolf @122 – both puzzles last Saturday had a date-sensitive theme, and I suspect that’s why there were two on one day. Yet to be seen if it will become a regular feature.

    The News Puzzle is published on the last Sunday of every month, not Saturday, and is online-only for the simple reason that there is no print FT on a Sunday.

  124. Widdersbel@123 Let’s see what happens this Saturday. My impression is that the new FT Crossword Editor is promoting use of the app by including puzzles there at the weekend which do not appear in the Saturday/Sunday print edition.

  126. KenMac if my comment at 126 is a problem then just delete it, I do not mind. I just think the FT and others make some things online only so that they can harvest data . I do not have a mobile phone or email so not an issue for me.

  130. That’s weird kenmac @128 as the solution to 29,039 by Maskarade was in the pdf for Jack’s (29,046) crossword yesterday.

  131. Yes, I noticed that yesterday after I had posted my comment. Looks like an inconsistency on the part of The Grauniad.

    I think we’ll stick with our blogging date, nonetheless, as I know the blogger has one-or-two additions to make.

  132. Will anyone blog the Guardian Easter special crossword? That was a very interesting crossword with the use symbols. I’ve not done one like that before.

  135. Has anyone tried the FT’s new Sunday puzzle published online on 23 April?. It is an American style puzzle and I can only solve about four clues. Totally different from any puzzle I have seen before.

  136. SM – yes, and I really liked it, despite a lot of the American GK being unknown to me. Having every letter checked makes this less of an issue than it might be (except where it’s two unknowns crossing). On the flip side, the lack of enumerations adds significantly to the difficulty.

    As I said to kenmac, I don’t think there’s any mileage in blogging it because it’s all definition-only, although some of the definitions are fiendishly cryptic! I thought 19a was particularly clever.

    I wonder if Rufus ever tried his hand at American-style crosswords – he would have been brilliant at them, I reckon.

  137. Thanks Widdersbel.
    Probably not a variety of puzzle for me. It must be hard for American solvers to get up to speed on British crosswords. But clearly some have cracked it.

  138. The pdf of the Guardian Genius puzzle for this month seems to have the wrong grid currently – don’t waste ink printing it!

  140. I used to be a big fan of the Saturday Independent skeleton crossword (sadly discontinued). I was hoping to revisit some examples, but can’t find copies of the actual grids anywhere. Are they still available?

  141. Anyone know why yesterdays FT crosswords are AWOL from their website? I’ve been thoroughly enjoying their new Sunday offerings so a real shame not to have one this week.

  142. Not sure where else to mention this, and it might have disappeared by the time anyone reads this, but today for some reason the Guardian website and app have published “Everyman No. 1”, presumably from the 1940s (?)

    I gave it a go. It’s very odd to modern eyes. I got four or five clues straight away, stared at the rest for a while and eventually gave up and revealed everything.

    Just in case they haven’t deleted it, I found it here:

    https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/everyman/1

  143. Many thanks Rob , I suspect this is because Everyman is 4000 this Sunday. That will make this around 1943 and almost certainly by Ximenes.
    I will brave the IT later office to try and get this printed, If they say even one word about cricket I am blaming you.

  144. Roz @143 – aah that does make some sense now. Although it was posted midweek without fanfare or explanation. Perhaps someone hit the button prematurely.

    I’d love someone to attempt a blog of Everyman 1…! There are a lot of solutions I just can’t parse with my 21st century brain. I just looked at it again and parts of it really are quite peculiar. There’s what reads like a homophone clue that makes zero sense to me. There’s a clue where the anagrind is “(anag)”. There are two clues that reference each other but in a weird circular way where you have to kind of guess one to work out the relationship between them. There’s a one-word clue that appears to not be cryptic at all. There’s one blank clue which I presume is Grauniad incompetence rather than setter trickery (I entered WORDLESS as a punt but was nowhere near right).

    Anyway, I’d love to know what others made of it 🙂

  145. Thanks Rob , very interesting and relatively painless to get it printed. It is more like a Torquemada but too late for him. I have revised my date to 1945 because of 10Ac.
    I have done about half, will have another go on my journey home tomorrow before I discuss it,
    CLUELESS woul be better for 16Ac but is not that.

  146. Rob, thanks for posting this. What a curious mix of clueing styles. A couple I still can’t quite parse, though I thought 11/26 was rather good in a quirky sort of way. Roz is correct in that 10a happened in early 1945 so this must be after that.

  148. Thanks Duncanshiell, I’ve enjoyed hunting down some of the more obscure (esp. literary) references, but will be interested to read the full blog

  150. Hi Rob T@A Gross and Roz afterwards. I really enjoyed this one, admittedly I checked a quite a few along the way, hunted around for the others on the web because I found it such fun and revealed about four to keep it going. The circular pair, wonderful and with helpful crossers. 17D superb. Had to reveal 14D but 3D was a smile as a result. Liked the two 1s, 10, 2, 12, 13, 5, 7,8 ,24 ,27 ,28, 15. Found a few others to be of their time or out of my league, 6 , 29, 22 the rest were fine.
    Huge fail, DNF, whatever…. tremendous fun…. and that’s what it’s about. Didn’t expect my knowledge of German Admirals to ever be of use. Hope the other quiz fans enjoy it too.

  152. Nearly done, Chambers search for 1Ac , it claims the dog is Dutch.
    Not got 6Ac, 18 Ac and 4D , without wordplay there is not much hope . I do not want the answers yet as a another break may lead to inspiration.
    For anyone who likes this style it is similar to Torquemada , but he is much harder. Someone printed some Torquemade puzzles for me so they must be available somewhere including the legendary “Knock-knock” puzzle.

  155. Many thanks Rob T @142 for drawing this to our attention – I don’t think I would have come across it otherwise. The puzzle is a fascinating reminder of how different crosswords were in those days. Even Ximenes wasn’t very Ximenean when he started out.

    michelle @154, yes, a nice article but containing an unfortunate error in that Ximenes is referred to as Colin Macnutt – should be Derrick! Maybe the author got carried away with Colins with the references to Colin Gumbrell and Colin Dexter.

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