Guardian Cryptic 29,017 by Matilda

73 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,017 by Matilda”

1. I thought COURSE a much better fit. That aside, this was a nice interlude with everything falling into place without a struggle ?
   Thanks M&M.

2. Thanks, Matilda for the fun & light puzzle. Thanks, manehi for the nice blog.
   I wrote COURSE instinctively. Agree it works both ways.

3. I thought 22d was a poor clue, being completely ambiguous on a letter that didn’t have a crosser. If anything the usual parsing would have indicated COURSE (“rough-sounding path”) instead of COARSE (“rough, sounding path”). The latter is very clumsy.

   I wasn’t much of a fan of HEATH either. It was a bit lame, and the surface didn’t really make any sense. What is a Ted ledger?

4. I thought 27a was missing an inclusion indicator, but Manehi’s explanation clears this up. I don’t think I’ve ever seen “high” as an anagrind before (14a). I was looking for another “e” in 2d/5a, as I knew “nee”, but learned today hat “né” is legit. Never heard of Kenneth Branagh. I’d have made 11a “Golf in Africa, say …”. I couldn’t parse 20d as we don’t have A&E here. I’ve never seen KILOGRAMME with the ME on the end. Yes, 22d can work either way. I too had COURSE.

   Notwithstanding the above, this was an enjoyable experience, thank you Matilda & Manehi.

5. Apart from 22d, where the “wrong” answer works much better, I enjoyed this. Favourites UKRAINE for a topical surface, PERMIT, CROSSWORD. Yes, I suppose NECKTIE is an &lit, otherwise there’s no definition other than an inadequate “item”. Thanks Matilda and manehi.

6. Of COURSE that is a better fit to the clue, as GregFromOz @3 sets out. Mind you, it doesn’t worry me if the Grauniad site gives a different answer, provided I can justify my answer as better (as here). After all, it’s just a little diversion, isn’t it? Otherwise, a very pleasant solve, with UKRAINE getting the bid for COTD from me. Thanks, Matilda and manehi.

7. Agree with others on COURSE. With regards to KILOGRAMME, we Brits have a habit of putting an extra ME on such words. The SI unit of mass should be spelt without them. Other than that, fairly straightforward. Thanks M and M.

8. The online version had KENNETH BRANAGH#as 5a,b 2d. I initialy thought it was an partial anagramand I put XXX inthe in the first 3 and pressed anagram helper and they were the first 3 letters ofthe second word. I started again putting in letters and thought AGH would finish the second word and KENNETH BRANAGH sprung to mind. I then needed a crosser to confirm they were the right way round and worked all the way over to GONE OUT before I had confirmation.
   The NE held out on me longest, but after solving I could not see why,,

   Enjoyable in the main I too had COURSE, but it was alittle ambiguous, so I feel either answer would fit. Favourites were PASSPORT and CONTINGENT. Thanks both

9. Steady solve and a reasonably straightforward puzzle.

   We use a lot of French spellings in the UK, still, although I’d spell kilogram without the extra M and E, learning those units in a scientific environment, but unless it’s a computer program, everything else is a programme.

   Thank you to Matilda and manehi.

10. Inspired by Oscars night, perhaps? ACADEMY (Awards), ONCE UPON A TIME (in Hollywood), GONE (Girl), KENNETH BRANAGH, HEATH Ledger, pointers in the clues towards The Madness of King George and Elvis (having left the building). Any more?

    manehi/GDU @4, re CONTINGENT: I think ‘continent’ is indicated by ‘Africa, maybe’ to signal a definition by example.

    And I was another COURSE, of course. Thanks M & m.

11. (and ‘Another Country’)

12. Another write-in today with lots of nice clues including UKRAINE, NECKTIE, CONTINGENT, PASSPORT, SHUDDER (nice device) and DYNASTY. I had COARSE but with ASCOT and golf featuring, maybe COURSE is more suitable. I actually liked HEATH for its bizarre juxtaposition of unlikely bedfellows. THE CREEPS provide my earworm for the day https://youtu.be/YfpoY7yRWBo

    Ta Matilda & manehi.

13. I liked a lot of this puzzle – the lift&separate in SHUDDER tickled me for instance.

    COARSE is pretty poor on the editor’s part.

    Got NECKTIE but raised both eyebrows and nothing above is convincing me. Surely we’re not having “from” as an anagram indicator?

    Thanks m&m.

14. essexboy @ 10: PASSPORT (To Pimlico), SPANISH (Harlem) and DRAMA?

15. McBeak @13: I thought ‘from’ was fine as in you can make another word from these letters.

16. The coarse course will take its course. While these clues are often open to interpretation, today I felt it came down to only one possibility from wordplay, while the critical letter could be either.
    It would be a shame if the comments focussed on this clue as there are so many other things of note in this crossie.
    Surfaces and wordplays for the most part clever and funny eg AFRO, DRAMA, ACADEMY, ONCE UPON A TIME, DYNASTY, CROSSWORD, THE CREEPS, NECKTIE
    I want what is needed to retire near fresh water 7D, but as I don’t gamble my chances are slim.

17. oh and RAIDER(s) (of the Lost Ark).

18. Oh, and liked UKRAINE and CONTINGENT, for the wordplay and a wry smile.

19. Essexboy @ 10, yes, I guess “may be” may be “maybe”, maybe. Cunning, if so.

    Forgot to say, PASSPORT was my favourite today.

20. There were quite a few straightforward clues today so I quite liked 4 dn as it was a bit more playful. It was a clever definition and the ‘from’ led me to see the anagram on first read. Thanks to Matilda and manehi.

21. MB@13 I thought the anagrind was the ?
    Not sure if that’s any better for you?

    Ticks for SHUDDER, UKRAINE & KILOGRAMME. I think Matilda’s way with definitions is a taste I haven’t acquired yet

    Earworm? What’s the frequency KENNETH worth watching for the bass player’s suit alone

    Cheers M&M

22. AlanC @14/17, I like your thinking. And in the clues, perhaps To Catch a Thief (6d) and the Orient Express (13a).

23. Fun puzzle. My favourites were SHUDDER, CROSSWORD, THE CREEPS, KENNETH BRANAGH, PERMIT, PASSPORT, HEATH.

    Thanks, both.

    I am fine with COARSE as the answer to 22d.

    Hello GregfromOz@3 – I am fine with 16ac as a play on a name such Edward/Ted Ledger (who could exist just as easily as Heath Ledger) with the answer being HEATH in this case 😉

24. Not my kind of crossword I’m afraid. Ambiguous clues like 22d really annoy me, and I did not like 2d/5a and 16a. I prefer The Times protocol that does not allow living persons to appear in solutions.( I think that they may have once made an exception for Winston Churchill).

25. As NEE for born is usually used to indicate a married woman’s maiden name, I can’t help wondering whether there are places where it’s usual for the husband to take the wife’s family name? Incidentally, in France, they do things the other way around. So my wife’s French passport calls her “XXX Farnell, épouse Brown” while her British passport explicitly states that she holds another passport with the different name. I suppose it makes sense to keep the same name throughout your life, especially for medical records.

26. Very enjoyable and congratulations to those who spotted all the cinema references. PERMIT and SHUDDER were my favourites. I always prefer it when EX is clued as “former” rather than “old”. An ex wife is not the same as an old wife nor an ex footballer the same as an old footballer. (e.g. Ronaldo) I think there is a subtle difference between an ex-Etonian and an Old Etonian, but I suppose I am splitting hairs.

27. George Clements: sadly the clue at 16a does obey the Times rule (which I find rather dreary, but horses for courses or coarses).

28. Thanks Matilda and manehi
    I’m always a bit miffed when my FOI turns out to be wrong – GOAT (GO AT) for 10a. There were lots of later compensations, though – PASSPORT, NIGHTWEAR, and ONCE UPON A TIME were particular favourites.
    I had COURSE. I saw it as genuinely ambiguous, but with COURSE a slight favourite.

29. I very much enjoyed Matilda’s puzzle. An interesting point in setting: there’s a lift-and-separate in SHUDDER of the kind I’m quite used to. In CONTINGENT (see #19, Geoff Down Under) there is the opposite process: may be > maybe. Don’t think I’ve seen this before and have avoided doing it myself, though I’ve often felt tempted. It cuts a corner. I think I’m happy to see it in the armoury, but I wonder what people’s views are?

30. Lots to like in this not-especially-tricky puzzle.

    Favourites were UKRAINE, PERMIT, THE CREEPS, PASSPORT (passport stamping was a thing of the past for European travel, until Brexit turned back the clock 🙁
    )

    NECKTIE is unsatisfactorily defined. COURSE is the more reasonable solution to 22dn. For the alternative interpretation the clue would need ‘as’ or ‘like’: ‘X sounding Y’ is only grammatical as a clue for a synonym of X if Y is an adjective rather than a noun (or so it seems to me).

    Thanks to S&B

31. Well, it never even occurred to me to check 22dn. I would lay money on COARSE not being Matilda’s intention. I’m glad I was not blogging this (never expected to say that about a Matilda puzzle) as I would automatically have given the ‘wrong’ answer.

    Not to let that spoil a typically enjoyable puzzle, my favourites, as so often, coincide with manehi’s, along with a few more, mentioned by others above. Top place must go to 15dn: the picture of a half-drunk Socrates doing crosswords is delicious and will stay with me for a long time.

    Many thanks, as ever, to Matilda for a lovely puzzle and to manehi for a gallant blog.

32. Mostly fun but my eyebrows got a workout with ‘from’ and ‘letters’ being used as anagrinds, although I am warming slightly to the latter. Re COURSE/COARSE, even though I read the intention of the clue as the former, I do think the setter should avoid ambiguous clues without confirmatory crossers anyway.

    Enjoyed SHUDDER, CROSSWORD and UKRAINE.

    Ta both.

33. A few lesser known films seemed to be in the mix SPANISH Fly, ( Leslie Phillips, Terry Thomas ), THE CREEPS, The UNMARRIED wife ( a Philippines production ).

    I revert back to my principle of ‘the imagined comma’ in 22d : Rough sounding, path : COURSE / Rough, sounding path : COARSE but, imho ( and taking those commas out ), the former is by far the better, so I’m a voter for COURSE; it’s the smoother surface. Both are technically possible though.

    Having had a cousin in DYNASTY ( Denver ) territory for many years, my earworm is

    https://youtu.be/MijaRcVaRK0

    Alternatively, after the Brits invaded ( Joan Collins and Stephanie Beacham ), you can have

    https://youtu.be/DzTlyRmXPQk

    Once saw Joan Collins in panto in Brummie territory but I don’t think she had done much line learning. Julian Clary continually was performing whispered prompts in her direction !

    Thank you Maltlida and manehi.

34. Matilda

35. Thought this was a great deal of fun with several light bulb moments, especially PERMIT. And although I wrote in HEATH with two helpful crossers in place, didn’t know the Ledger chap. Thought the KG for the anagram fodder at 26ac rather naughty. ASCOT much less topical than if Cheltenham had appeared somewhere in the grid today. Hoping for a few winners, anyway. Last two in the interlocking ACADEMY and ADDICT, though I just like the occasional bet myself…

36. Although it took me a while, to my amazement I was able to parse them all!
    I am slightly surprised that Australians have not heard of Kenneth Branagh, who began as an actor before he started directing. Once married to Emma Thomson, they were a golden couple over here for a while. But maybe he didn’t travel, although she did, winning awards for films like Sense and Sensibility for example.
    Thank you, Matilda, anyway, and thanks to bloggers and manehi for the entertaining discussion.

37. Thanks manehi for the blog – like Eileen@34, I agreed with so many of your favourites it was uncanny. I had to come here to see how 12a PERMIT worked, though I was sure it was right. I very much enjoyed this challenge from Matilda and liked the neat way it unfolded. Funny to encounter that old-fashioned spelling of KILOGRAMME at 26a – referencing Shanne@9, I recall persevering with PROGRAMME in the same way for a while, because old habits die hard, but I have to admit that these days it’s kilogram and program.
    [Side notes as I read the blog comments:
    I am also firmly in the COURSE camp for 23d, though echoing TassieTim@6, fortunately it’s not sheep stations!
    I liked the linking of the clues to the Oscars/films by essexboy@10 et. al. – intentional or not, those suggestions added another level again to Matilda’s clever puzzle.
    muffin@28, GOAT/GO AT was my first thought for 10a.]

38. Not many years ago I spotted Emma Thompson at a tiny ceilidh in the woods near Dunoon, really letting her hair down. Didn’t realise she lived locally or that she was once married to Mr Branagh…

39. Muffin@10: I had a go at GOAT for 10a.

    I’m quite happy with the ‘Africa, may_be’ merge in CONTINGENT.

    What is the rationale for the Times ban on living persons in the crossword? Are they worried about causing offence? Or even a libel case?

40. “Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed
    A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he’s [half] pissed”

41. I wondered about NE (Chambers only has NEE). Branagh is from my home town (Belfast) but I would have thought him sufficiently well-known in the wider world. His semi-autobiographical film ‘Belfast’ did well at the Oscars last year, though personally I had some reservations about it.

42. [SinCam@36 referencing Geoff Down Under@4: Knowing Kenneth Branagh in Australia could depend on one’s particular exposure to films and TV shows – for instance, I really liked his Poirot in ‘Murder on the Orient Express” although he didn’t really resemble the little egg-shaped Belgian detective, and his Wallander was also a favourite of mine.
    – cf Ronald@35, who hadn’t heard of our HEATH Ledger – depends what films you ppick up on. As I say often about doing cryptics, we learn so much along the way.]
    [And my bad, it should have been Eileen@31 in my previous comment!]

43. [Tassie Tim@40 – I laughed out loud when I saw your post. I have to say that I still rely on Monty Python when it comes to clues about philosophers!]
    [and poc@41, we crossed, or I would have referenced you too.]

44. Thanks manehi and those who pointed out film links which of course I missed.

    Komornik@29 I was going to grumble about the missing defn by eg indicator before I realised that the “may be” could be doing the job. I haven’t seen it before either, and don’t think of “may be” as meaning the same as “maybe” exactly, though there are senses in which it is cv lose, BUT if we are now used to ‘lift&separate’ I don’t see why we should not become accustomed to the opposite (is this Wonderbra wordplay, Roz?) and it’s always nice to see new ideas (I would have been a lot grumpier if I had failed through not spotting it though). Go for it!

    Thanks Matilda, fun with some food for thought as always.

45. Not come across the lift-and-separate of 28 before and was NOT amused. I’ll know better next time. Can’t see anything wrong with definition of NECKTIE, clever clue. Happy with from as an anagram but not high.

46. Another very gentle puzzle following yesterday’s. Like almost everyone else I had COURSE at 22d, which works much better than the alternative.

    Thanks Matilda and manehi

47. Good fun, of COURSE.

    I liked the linkage of UK and UKRAINE, PERM IT, PA’S SPORT, and the half drunk Socrates, which was a novel way of cluing CROSSWORD. Poc @41, from Chambers:
    ne
    adjective
    (of a man) born, used in giving the original name of a titled man

    Thanks Matilda and manehi.

48. I had COURSE like many others because the surface sounded better, but I think it should be said that from a cryptic point of view, both readings are equally valid. It is the setter’s aim, usually, to mislead with constructions that lull you into reading the surface in the “normal” way but the wordplay works otherwise. I agree with McBeak@13 that this one should have been spotted by the editor.

49. That was a lot of fun. Thanks Matilda. Thanks too for the blog Manehi. I had ‘built’ as the anagrind for KILOGRAMME rather than ‘originally’ which I think refers to the K and G. Perhaps you meant the same but accidentally wrote originally instead of built?

50. Thanks for the blog , COURSE went into my grid, I do not care what the Guardian site says and if the answer is coarse in my paper tomorrow I will correct it.
    Very neat and appropriate Playtex for SHUDDER and the more unusual Gossard for CONTINGENT , rare to have both in one puzzle.

51. Late in the day before I got to this. Not too difficult but must compliment Matilda on the numerous superbly smooth surfaces.

52. This one was completed quickly today with no access to any aids or checking. As it happens I instinctively went with coarse for 22d, but I see it could be either.
    [With regard to kilogram(me), I’ve always found it rather odd that the standard unit of mass is 1000x something else, ie 1000 grams. No other SI unit has a prefix as part of its name. Obviously we refer to kilometres in everyday life, but the metre is the standard unit of length.]
    Thanks Matilda & Manehi

53. Could 18d have been “course”? Of course it could!

54. Just checked and I had COURSE which seemed better fit last night. (I look forward to midnight challenge on line)
    Although I didn’t parse PASSPORT oddly.
    Thanks Matilda and manehi

55. Oops! I meant 22d! Of course,

56. What I like most about Matilda is her great sense of humour which permeates this puzzle, making it one of the most enjoyable I have done in a long time. There was at least a chuckle in almost every clue.

    Roz@50, I too spotted both the Playtex and Gossard, and immediately thought of you.

    Re 22d, I shall commit apophasis, just so I can use that word that I learned through fifteensquared of course.

    Thanks M&m for today’s sweet treat.

57. Thanks Matilda. I value silky smooth surfaces and there were plenty to be found here. I ticked many clues as favourites — UKRAINE, UNMARRIED, PASSPORT, SHUDDER (I long ago learned to look at compound words with suspicion), DYNASTY, ONCE UPON A TIME (great anagram), and DRAMA. Thanks manehi for the blog.

58. Re 22d again, Matilda could have clued it as “Rough path” giving the solution COARSE COURSE, requiring you to enter A/U as the third letter. (It could be enumerated as 12/2, or 6×2)

59. I agree with Gervase @30 – “sounding” followed by “noun” is so inferior to “adjective” followed by “sounding” that the decision (for me at least) is automatic. And I agree with Eileen @31 too – surely Matilda could not have intended COARSE.

60. Glad it wasn’t just me at 22d. Otherwise very enjoyable. Like the film theory & wonder if it was indeed Matilda’s intention.
    Thanks both

61. I don’t think it’s the editor’s duty to sort out ambiguous answers (why wake him up?), but the setter should indicate somehow which is the intended correct answer, so there’s no ambiguity. COURSE and COURSE are both valid answers, so how is the solver to know which one is correct?

62. erike44 @61 – it isn’t the editor’s duty to sort out ambiguous answers, but it is the editor’s duty to point them out 🙂

63. erik@61
    You are rather giving away your take on the clue – COURSE and COURSE?

64. I’m glad I picked this up late in the day. I thought much of the clueing showed great imagination, perhaps no more so than in SHUDDER, PASSPORT and CROSSWORD. A delightful puzzle.
    Thanks Matilda and manehi.

65. Thanks both.

    THE CREEPS got my upright thumb today (as did ‘high’ as an anagrind) and I really enjoyed the link from AlanC@12 – new to me and I can’t decide if the eponymous band were meritorious or meretricious.

    Eileen@31: Well said (imho).

    gladys@39: Thanks for the link, which led to a good laugh.

66. Roz @50, thank you for introducing me to the delights of Gossard! I remember P from the late sixties or early seventies, and can only use my imagination for what G does. I seem to remember a Slovak modelka being in the, um, forefront of the campaign, so maybe I should have seized upon it instinctively. Shall not forget now. Both procedures seem accepted as normal in Twotwofivesville: I may very well act accordingly.

67. [monkeypuzzler @52: Years ago New Scientist had an article on the incongruity of an SI base unit named as a multiple and suggested an alternative name for the kilo: the galileo. Thus a gram would become a milligal. A reader wrote in subsequently thanking the magazine for clarifying the issue. He said he had always confused the milligal with the millihelen: a unit of beauty sufficient to launch one ship]

68. gladys @39
    I too was reminded of the A P Herbert case in which the question is posed as to whether a setter could be sued for clues to which the answers are libellous or whether the solvers are the guilty parties. I have the books in which this case and others appear and can recommend them because they are very funny. A word of warning though. Too great an indulgence and one’s subsequent discourse, influenced by the manner of speaking employed by the characters therein, may appear to one’s interlocutors to be overblown, nay, even pompous.

69. After my first two answers in contained BUM and KNOB I did momentarily pause to wonder exactly where this puzzle was going and whether it was in fact a rogue Cyclops escaped from Private Eye ! Thankfully my fears quickly proved groundless and I proceeded at a pace from there on. The SW corner held out longest – it took me a while to spot the ‘lift and separate’ required for 28ac, for example. Many thanks to Matilda and manehi.

70. gladys@39 and Pino@68, thank you for reminding us of A P Herbert’s brilliantly hilarious Uncommon Law. I had read the crossword libel case before becoming addicted to cryptic crosswords, and now find it even funnier than I did then.

71. [ Cellomaniac@70 referring to a previous issue, the TT races are very important in the world of motorbikes , especially amatuer racers, they come from all over the world to the IOM . A beautiful island surrounded by the world’s most important sea where you can see real, live mermaids nearly every day . ]

72. A full kg discusion is a bit convoluted for here . Briefly the original system was cgs , cm gram second, which merely transferred the problem to the cm . When an electromagnetis theory was developed the units had to be coherent with cgs , it was found to be far simpler for mks for things like the Ohm , Watt , Joule. When SI was set up it went with mks .
    The kg could and should be renamed but probably never will , the grave would be my choice,

73. Robi@47: I stand corrected. I had missed the entry for NE as it (correctly) includes the accent.

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