Guardian 29,034 / Anto

90 comments on “Guardian 29,034 / Anto”

1. Generally quite easy solve except for 9ac & 20d which appear to have misdirections in the clues.

2. Monday puzzle by Anto. We’ve had “can” quite a few times recently and this time it was TOILET and not prison. Tick’s for UPSKILLED, ANARCHY, RADIO and USELESS.

   My mother absolutely loved EPNS knick-knacks so that one was a write-in for me.

   I think “Daisy Bell” is the official title of that old music hall song.

   Two very different links, but both showing ANARCHY in their own ways.

   https://youtu.be/q31WY0Aobro

   https://youtu.be/iCstpe3OOaw

   Thank you Anto and Eileen.

3. Quite right, Janet: I hadn’t spotted the flaw in 20dn.

4. Nuh, Janet, sorry. 9A and 20D all correct and accounted for.

5. RADIO is another of those recently discussed clues of the type term-operation-term where it’s often a toss-up whether the operation associates to the left or right, but here as Eileen indicates the wording in the surface definitely prefers one direction, but not the direction needed.

   I agree too about SOMERSET being awkward. I’m not sure if you can parse it as definition+wordplay or v.v. It has all the right bits but it doesn’t look like they’re all in the right places.

   Thanks A&E

6. I pencilled in PER as the start of PAMPER (20D) on my first trawl, and held back on RATIO/RADIO until I had all the crossers, so I found those convoluted too. I liked UPSKILLED and EPNS, my last one in, when I actually followed the instructions, rather than that doesn’t make anything pronounceable.

   Thank you to Eileen and Anto.

7. Forgot to mention the problem with PAMPER, agree with Janet@1.

8. I have been critical in recent weeks of the Monday cryptic in the Guardian being easier than the Quiptic. That criticism doesn’t apply today. I thought this was a good Monday effort, probably a decent challenge for the inexperienced solver and not so straightforward as to be a write-in for the more weatherbeaten.

   I agree with Janet@1 and Eileen in their criticism of RADIO. PAMPER is similarly flawed but I’m inclined to give that one a pass because it’s unlikely in practice to mislead the solver.

   Thanks to Anto and Eileen.

9. I think RADIO is one of Anto’s “reverse” clues where you start with the answer and then apply the operation to it so if you swap the D for T you get RATIO / relationship. I just waited for the crossers to confirm

   I did wonder whether SOMERSET had its definition at both ends i.e. “Bath … in this place”

   Good innovative fun as ever from Anto even if not all the fireworks went off exactly as planned

   Cheers A&E

10. I don’t have a problem with 9a.

    Quite enjoyable but the Bath-Somerset connection was beyond me and I didn’t think of the song for DAISY. EPNS elicited a groan — an obscure clue that should really have been (1,1,1,1).

11. Didn’t get on with this, I’m afraid. Too many niggles, as Eileen and others have noted. What is the definition in the clue for SOMERSET? – more than “rather” awkward, to me. Agree about vague definition in ONESIE. Wordplay for PAMPER would give PERPAM. RADIO indeed the wrong way round. To me MAINSTREAM just means “conventional” without the comparative “more”. Etc.

    I did like IDLE GOSSIP, ENTOURAGE and a few others.

    Thanks both.

12. If you assume that the “comeback” applies to both the letters of each word and the word order then PAMPER seems fine to me

    DrW @5 you reminded me of Eric Morecambe playing all the right notes … 🙂

13. thank you Eileen for explaining 16d to me. I’d forgotten the palindrome.

14. Dreadful cluing of 9a. This should really have been spotted by the Absent Editor. Nho EPNS so DNF. I continue to be underwhelmed by Anto.

15. I enjoyed some of this but not all. I thought 7d ORGASM, 14d RED ENSIGN and 23d PROMO (my LOI) were good clues. (I nearly typed “I enjoyed 7d ORGASM … but quickly changed that!) Some other clues were accompanied by question marks – most have already been discussed. Thanks to Eileen and Anto for the blog and the puzzle.

16. Re 9a: Doesn’t “take daughter in for time” mean simply “use d instead of t”?
    Thanks again for your always conscientious blogs, Eileen.

17. Very tough. I failed to solve 25ac & 23d and I guessed quite a few unparsed: 11ac, 26ac, 1d (only got as far a s medi[a] + at + 10 +n?), 3d, 16d.

    27ac – I still don’t understand this. Can someone explain it please 🙂

    Favourites: ORGASM, TOILET.

    New for me: DAISY tandem bike (thanks, google) – but I see now that it referred to an old song.

    Thanks, both.

18. Thanks Anto and Eileen. I have always enjoyed Anto’s puzzles although have usually thought they have been misplaced when appearing in the Quiptic or, indeed, the Monday slot. Today’s has some good clues but I, like others, cannot see how 9A can work, even as a reverse clue. I, like Michelle, am totally puzzled by 27A and cannot see the link between the answer CONCENTRATED being a misleading description of a homeopathic product.

19. The way I see 9a …

    If it had been “Medium takes daughter in for time to create relationship”, then it would be wrong. But I don’t see anything wrong with “Medium may take daughter in for time to create relationship.”

20. To claim a homeopathic product is concentrated would be misleading because they are typically extremely diluted.

21. On 27ac, homeopathic remedies are diluted hugely so there is little chance of even a molecule of the original formula being left in the solution. It is therefore the opposite of concentrated.

22. I think the medium should have been taking his daughter out not in.

23. GDU @19 – I really don’t want to drag this out but I still can only make sense of ‘Medium may take time for daughter to create relationship’.

24. Thank you the@20 and Good Old Simey@21 – makes sense now.

25. I agree, Eileen, that that would be better.

26. @18 Larry – the cryptic definition of 27A depends on knowledge that a homeopathic product is diluted many times such that the result could not be described as concentrated. So concentrated would be a misleading description (a wrong description actually).

27. Had to reveal so many that I gave up. Poor start to the week?

28. 8d hasn’t got a definition at all, merely a vague opinion

29. Re 27ac, vaguely remember a previous occurrence and a few views about whether water can ‘remember’ …

30. Surely “plan agent has” is a REP MAP, so the clue is fine as it is?

31. For the most part found this straight forward, except that instead of SOMERSET I had inserted Morebath, which of course wasn’t a very ground up anagram of the letters available. I think I got rather overexcited about rediscovering a 1992 book that left a great impression when I read it at the time: “Voices of Morebath” by Eamon Duffy. Wrong County, too, Devon. That all held me up for some time in the SE corner. Wrote in EPNS, as loi, a nho, then came on here to check up if I’d successfully completed…

32. Thanks, Lyssian @30 – I’ll buy that and amend the blog.

33. Did not like UPSKILLED. How on earth is “in Elba” a clue for that word? “Hey there’s a random palindrome that mentions Elba. There’s another word in that palindrome which is ‘able’. This happens to be Elba backwards even though there is no reversal indicator in the clue. Anyway, able is close too, but not exactly the same meaning as ‘upskilled’.” Rubbish.

34. I think if you think of Bath as a Roman town in Somerset you get a sort of &lit. Pace ragged@33 I quite liked UPSKILLED. You don’t have to know the palindrome, although it helps.

35. I have a couple of shiny spoons stamped with what at a glance seems to be a hallmark, but actually just says EPNS

36. Ragged @30. The reversal indicator is in the answer – UP. So UPSKILLED could be a clue for Elba, and able is a synonym for skilled, rather than upskilled. The question mark excuses all things.

37. @33 Elba up = able = skilled. Therefore, upskilled = Elba.

38. I am struggling a bit to understand quite how ‘initiated by’ is working in POSER. I see you have added a QM to your comment, Eileen, and am not sure if that is indicating uncertainty or something else. I know ‘to initiate’ is to begin but ‘definition initiated by [string of words]’ is not an acrostic format I have encountered before.

39. @36 – “The reversal indicator is in the answer” So once you’ve solved the clue you’ll know how to solve the clue???

40. Found that really hard. Some excellent clues but I agree with all of the negative comments above. Found myself thinking “really?” rather too ofteeln.

41. Re 16d: We found the solution legit after we abandoned hope that the clue involved Idris Elba, who would be playing 007 by now if there was any justice in the world

42. Good puzzle, though I had to come here for some parsings. I am still struggling to understand EPNS – how is ‘mark’ the definition? Surely ‘just a silvery appearance’ performs this function? But if this is the case, then what is ‘mark’ doing in the clue? Or is EPNS a hallmark? I’ve never heard of it anyway so I may have misunderstood this …

43. re 18a Electroplated Nickel Silver has no actual silver content, and is only marked EPNS. Electroplated Silver would have a hallmark, because it has a thin veneer of silver.

44. Big ol’ DNF here. EPNS was a nho.

45. So much to dislike about this today, as others have highlighted…. ESPN is not a 4-letter word, it should have been 1,1,1,1 (and surely Anto could gave found a 4-letter word to fit here instead of having to resort to an acronym?)… UPSKILLED? ugh…. ONESIE was poorly clued, especially for one of those modern “not proper words”… RADIO/RATIO were interchangeable… SOMERSET again poorly clued… sorry to say it, but that was one of the poorest Guardian crosswords for a while, IMO.

46. Hi PostMark @38 – I was wanting to get the blog posted, after having wasted some time trying to get rid of the picture, so the QM was saying something like ‘What do you make of this?’ and hoping someone would respond. Like you, I was struggling to make sense of the wordplay.

    Redrodney @42 – I was taking ‘mark’ as meaning ‘hallmark’ and provided a link to a list of them but please see PeterM’s comment @35: it seems that the ‘mark’ for EPNS is EPNS!

47. Ian @45 – we crossed. I withdraw my comment in the blog that EPNS is a clever clue. I did point out that it is not an acronym (Collins: ‘a pronounceable name made up of a series of initial letters or parts of words, for example UNESCO). Clues such as this always raise objections to the enumeration but 1,1,1,1 would be too much of a giveaway.

48. Ian @45 it’s just the Guardian house style not to enumerate initialisms/acronyms like that (1,1,1,1)

    Also ONESIE is in Chambers so it’s fair game

49. I was unaware that Bath is actually in Somerset and was still of the belief it is in (the now defunct) Avon. Was also hopelessly stuck with 1D as I had parsed 9A as RATIO, as did several others it seems. As 3D contains “IS”, tried for a long time to figure out where DAY would come from but gave up and considered it a c.d. If we must have clues like 18A, can they be labelled (1,1,1,1)? Never heard of the connection with 23D.

50. Thanks both,
    Too much mental gymnastics needed for the parsings for my taste.

    Rustoo @43 all our epns cutlery is so marked. There is a thin coat over a coat of nickel over the base material of the item. You need silver polish to clean epns. You can see the layers clearly on worn items.

51. Russtoo @ 43. There is no such thing as electroplated silver. It would just be solid silver. EPNS has a thin coat of silver over a base metal, formed by an electrolytic process invented by the Elkington company mid 19th.c. Prior to that Sheffield plate consisted of a thin layer of silver hand beaten and covering a copper base.
    EPNS is a common mark on silver plated items and as such may be treated as one word.

52. Thanks Anto and Eileen
    Everything I had to say about 9 has already been said.
    I’m sure I’ve see INTUITION clued like this before.
    RED ENSIGN reminded me of a supposedly cryptic clue I saw many years ago in a TV related crossword “O’Toole or Parker, either will do.”
    [JulieinAustralia, I will be in your area over Easter. If we are both in agreement perhaps Eileen could pass on our email addresses to enable a meeting. If I am breaching any rules by posting this, I apologise.]

53. I think (4) is the correct enumeration for 18a on two grounds: it is commonly referred to as EPNS ware and its mark (not a hallmark) is EPNS not E.P.N.S.
    Regarding 16d, it is hardly a ‘random palindrome’ (@33) but one learnt at ones mother’s knee; in my case long before Madam I’m Adam.

54. As you say some easy, others tough, I had to go away and do the cryptic to convince myself that I can still do cryptics and on returning filled in all but two. Then I had to go for my Vietnamese lesson and on returningI had 18 d &a tp solve, got there about an hour later. I don’t have the reswrvations others have, but it is probably because I am more slapdash than most and inspiration strikes me when I have half parsed the clue.
    I realised that 3d was the girl who looked sweet upon the seat of a bicycle made for two, but I had to sing the song through 3 or 4 times before I could remember her name!
    Thanks Eileen, my favourite blogger, and Qaos for holding off dementia for another day.

55. nicbach @54: I don’t want to worry you unduly – but it was Anto rather than Qaos holding off your dementia …

    Eileeen @46: it hadn’t interested anyone prior to my comment and doesn’t seem to have interested anyone since. EPNS, SOMERSET, PAMPER and RADIO seem to have occupied the majority of the hive mind!

56. Thanks Eileen as I couldn’t see beyond MEDIA and IO for ten in 1d, had been congratulating myself for parsing the other subtractive clues (which I often find difficult), never mind. And thanks Lyssian@30 for rescuing 20d from the naughty step, it was my last in and I appreciate it fully now. Still agree with those finding 9a problematic, and a couple of lesser quibbles have been aired already, but i liked EPNS, and ONESIE despite the very vague definition, as well as quite a few non-controversial clues eg 19a. Thanks Anto.

57. Well I liked it – thanks Anto – and Eileen’s blog was as ever meticulous.

58. bodycheetah@48: I don’t think there is any objection to ONESIE as a word, but to the excessively vague definition – there must be 6279 things that look silly to some people!

    Not on Anto’s wavelength today and didn’t finish this, but I did like DAISY (which was my 20-second handwashing song – remember those?)

59. Thanks Anto. Much of this seemed straighforward with my favourites being USELESS, SOLVE, EXCISE, and IDLE GOSSIP, the latter for its surface and anagram. I did have an issue with RADIO/ratio and I needed a word finder for UPSKILLED. I never heard of EPNS so it made no difference to me whether the enumeration was (4) or (1,1,1,1). [By the way I’ve seen RSVP enumerated as (4) in other crosswords so I would expect EPNS to follow suit.] Thanks Eileen for the blog. [I also enjoyed your comment on Guy’s excellent crossword in the FT today.]

60. Eileen
    18A EPNS: No-one else seems to have followed up on your reference; I came across this.

61. Never heard of EPNS, it didn’t look remotely like a word, so I thought it must be an acrolabel. Do you mind RSVP, Eileen? That’s one non-acronym I’d find acceptable.

    How is CAP an international award?

    Didn’t we have a discussion yesterday about D=director?

    Thanks, Anto and Eileen for an industrious morning.

62. Valentine @61: caps are awarded for representing one’s country at international level in a variety of sports.

63. I thought this was quite challenging for a Monday

64. Just to put in my tuppence worth: Bath may be in the historic county of Somerset, but now it’s in that horrible concoction Banes (Bath and North East Somerset). What’s really annoying is I didn’t get the answer and I actually live in Somerset!

65. …whoops. Didn’t like ONESIE and the “which way round” is it clues but….enjoyed 7d
    Anarchy doesn’t have to be chaos. Nobody ruling might be ok for a bit.
    Thanks both

66. Another have a go at Anto day, tiresome.

67. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.

    I managed 3 clues today.

    I need help.

    6d – RA?

68. Steffen@67 – RA, clued as artist, comes up quite frequently and is worth remembering. It stands for Royal Academican (i.e. a member of the Royal Academy of Arts)

69. EPNS? WTAF!

70. Thank you Larry.

71. The knack of finding the “definition” is something I have yet to find.

    If the clue is a question, does that have an effect on what the definition is?

72. 24a – I thought “first class” meant using the “U” of umpire for the word.

73. I’ve unfortunately got to the point with Anto where the whole experience is miserable because I’m half-expecting any given clue to be a bit of a hash. It’s a shame because there are a lot of nice ones in here – but my response is just “phew” rather than “wow”. As I’ve said before, the editor needs to switch on. Thanks Eileen, certainly wasn’t getting EPNS and I couldn’t parse MEDIATION.

74. Never come across the word ENSIGN used like this….good learning point.

75. 23d – I am uncertain as to the connection here between PROMO & PUFF.

76. Minds work in different ways! I had 20d as plan = paper and agent =M (pace Ian Fleming). As a devoted Bath Rugby fan I was glad that @64Deezzaa pointed out that the city is in BANES

77. As usual, I agree with Eileen. 9a is a stinking clue.

78. Like others, I didn’t really get on with this for all sorts of reasons. I agree with McBeak @73. It’s hard to have any faith in the soundness of one of Anto’s clues, which ultimately makes for an unsatisfying solve, even with those clues that are faultless. The trust isn’t there. NHO EPNS, and Chambers tells me ENSIGN for a lowly officer is either American or pre-1871 British, which is a bit rough.

    AlanC @66 – if people consistently dislike elements of Anto’s style, but the Guardian continues to allow those elements through the editor’s filter, they will of course continue to criticise them. I don’t see anyone providing anything ad hominem here.

    Steffen – if the clue has a question mark, it often means it’s a ‘definition by example’, where the definition isn’t directly synonymous with the answer, but is an example of the answer. e.g. if a clue ends in ‘setter?’ the answer could be DOG, because a setter is an example of a dog. It can also mean there’s something a bit unusual going on in the clue, but a good starting point is to look for a definition by example. As far as PROMO and PUFF are concerned, one meaning of ‘puff’ is praise that’s intended as an advertisement. The most common usage is probably ‘a puff piece’, which is an article serving as an advert for something.

    Thanks Eileen and Anto.

79. Enjoyed this – unusually managed to solve nearly all of it. Don’t like ‘focussed’ though

80. Glad others were confused by RADIO/RATIO…

81. Well I enjoyed it – thanks to Anto and to Eileen.

    I came a cropper with SMOOTHIES – with 3 right-hand crossers I went for ‘cocktails’, presuming that Eileen would explain why ‘tail’ meant ‘doubtful’. ‘Moot’ is one of those words that seem to change meaning every time I see them used (like ‘woke’) but I agree with Eileen: it’s more ‘debatable’ than ‘doubtful’ but also (in the USA?) has an element of irrelevance? No doubt the dictionaries will have something to say about it.

    But I did enjoy the entertainment.

82. Too difficult for me today. Got within two of finishing though, so nearly there. Thanks Anto and Eileen

83. Hi Steffen , if you’re till there – I’m just in from a lovely evening at Stratford, for a superb performance of ‘Hamnet’ (sic!) and sorry not to have responded to any of your queries but it seems you’ve been well looked after! I’m admiring your determination to make progress. Please keep the questions coming!

    Alphapha @81 – I would have liked to offer more information re MOOT but I was running late and, as you say, it’s in the dictionaries: it goes right back to Anglo Saxon assemblies and is today used for an academic exercise for law students. I wish now that I’d taken time to find this article this morning https://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2015/jan/16/mind-your-language-moot-point .
    (I’d have found it difficult to explain why ‘tail’ meant ‘doubtful’. 😉 )

    I see that it’s now ‘tomorrow’, so time for bed.

84. I enjoyed the challenge in this puzzle. I parsed all of them eventually, although I do agree with some of the quibbles here.

    The most memorable rendition of “Daisy” that I can recall is the mournful dirge sung by Hal the Computer as David Bowman takes his electronic brain apart, in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

85. Steffen@72 U generally means “upper class” or synonyms thereof, rather than “first class,” which means some version of “excellent,” or as in this case PREMIUM — this time “first class” is the definition It often stands for AI, though. Here PREMIUM is an anagram of “umpire” plus another M, the start of Match.

    Steffen@75 Eileen explains PROMO. A pro is not an amateur, but is paid for doing whatever it is; MO is short for “moment” (“wait a mo”) or “second.” PROMO is puffery for something or someone.

86. Ragged @39 “So once you’ve solved the clue you’ll know how to solve the clue???”

    I guess. I don’t think that type of clue – where the answer is clued through how it could itself work as a cryptic clue – is so uncommon, and I don’t see anything wrong with them. Perhaps because I often don’t know how to solve the clue until I’ve solved it – it’s rare that I solve it from the parsing alone. More often I guess at the definition and then see if I can justify it.

87. Steffen @71 the definition is almost always at the start or end of the clue. But it could be several words in length.

88. Thanks, Eileen. I enjoyed this crossword. I found it a bit hard but I think that’s just my mind taking a bit of time to tune in to Anto’s. I thought it fine to use ‘looks silly to some’ to suggest onesie

89. Billy Clark – see gladys’ comment @58: ‘I don’t think there is any objection to ONESIE as a word, but to the excessively vague definition – there must be 6279 things that look silly to some people!’

90. At least it stopped all the commenters on the Guardian page moaning about how Monday’s crossword is so simple for them that it’s a waste of their time.

    I found this very difficult and non-Monday-ish. Gave up with about 4 to go but coming here I see that that was wise. I was doing the wrong anagram for SOMERSET and apart from Bath being in Somerset, I can’t see how the clue works. Never heard of EPNS although I would have found it if I had as I did consider the apparently meaningless alternate letters of SERPENTS. I did think of TS Eliot but failed to spot can=toilet. Didn’t parse UPSKILLED though I found it. Thought ONESIE was itself moot but found that. And I was so confused about whether it was meant to be RADIO or RATIO that I just revealed it. A case could be made for either and I’d figured out how to solve it. Guessed DAISY and imagined it had something to do with some half-remembered ancient song.

    All in all I prefer Monday to be relatively untaxing and straightforward. There’s the rest of the week for the convoluted stuff.

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