Guardian Prize 29,111 / Paul

74 comments on “Guardian Prize 29,111 / Paul”

1. Definitely not easy for me, but I think the prize offerings are getting harder these days. I agree with you on Cherry, and the extra R, seemed a bit sloppy, but you have to love the cleverly hidden Casanova, genius!

2. I got 16,4 straight away from the definition (“a juvenile excuse”) and enumeration, so that was a good start.

   My favourite was MERCILESS (“NO THANKS” to the French!), very clever, and the link with FLASH GORDON was great.

   I think in 6a the reference is not to a literal brick being dropped but to dropping a brick meaning making an embarrassing comment or mistake, which I suppose could be thought of as a MISHAP.

   I’m not totally convinced by 21a. A CROOK is just a criminal, who might possibly have been caught but equally well might not.

   Thanks Paul and mhl.

3. I was a bit dubious about CROOK. Being caught isn’t necessary to be a crook.

4. Thanks, Paul and mhl!
   Liked MISHAP, CROOK, MERCILESS, FLASH GORDON, METE OUT and T D A M HOMEWORK.

   MISHAP:
   Thought of the idiom ‘drop a brick’ (to say something that upsets or offends other people-Collins). Brick dropped=mishap in this context.

   FLASH GORDON
   ‘Scottish’ PM: Gordon Brown was born in Scotland.

5. I missed the non-rhotic “larva” =“lava” again. But is there any dialect where “brooch” and “broach” are near homonyms?

6. Not a fan of Paul by any means but have to acknowledge this was not a half bad puzzle

7. “It’s hard for me to assess how hard these are these days”
   Personally, I thought this one was particularly hard, given that it’s the first Prize in years that I haven’t managed to get all the way out, having been baffled by several crossing clues in the NW corner.

8. Thanks to Paul – I liked this puzzle. There were a few I couldn’t parse in full though, like 3d,26a where I didn’t “get” the “FLASH” part of FLASH GORDON, so thanks to mhl for the explanatory blog. Ticks for the clever hidden at 25a CASANOVA (cf the comment from Ant@1), as well as a laugh for 8d ANKLE-BITERS and a gong (!) for 2,24d EARLOBE. The already-mentioned HOMEWORK clue though was a standout for this former teacher and observer from afar of UK politics. [Dan Milton@5, re 9a, BROOCH and BROACH sound the same in Australian pronunciation.]

9. Generally I avoid Paul, especially in a prize slot. I had extra time last weekend so I thought I’d give this a go. Big mistake — I ended up using a word finder for a half dozen clues and the ones I liked were few and far between. In contrast, I just completed Philistine’s prize — that was stellar. I guess we’re all different. Thanks to all.

10. Tony Santucci @9, I am the opposite of you. I get a real buzz out of finishing a challenging puzzle and if I have a laugh along the way, all the better. I don’t mind using aids as a last resort and enjoy the distractions encountered along the way.

    Some puzzles, like this one can take a week and I enjoy the process of chipping away at it in several sittings. I find the teatray moments that often are the result most satisfying. That’s when I most engage with the setter.

    This was a toughie for me and when the brick finally dropped as my LOI it was such a great feeling.

    A cracker of a puzzle, Paul, thanks. Thanks, too, to mhl for such a clear blog. Great stuff.

11. mhi: You have a typo in 20d It should be FLAB.
    DanMilton @5, I am Welsh and BROOCH and BROACH have always ben pronounced the same in my hearing.
    Loved THE DOG one.

12. Thanks for the blog, mhl. When I read your initial comments I agreed with you about THE DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK, but then was surprised to see you’d liked CROOK, because I couldn’t remember that being one of the answers at all. Then I realised this was because faced with “Caught Man” and _R_O_, I’d put in GROOM, which I thought was a slightly cynical cryptic definition. So, I guess a failure. At the end, I took quite a while to spot NIGHTMARE, although I can’t really see why, and MISHAP – I spent a while trying to justify ‘mislay’ and even ‘Mislav’ before I realised that was really Croatian, and I still think the definition is a bit of a stretch. I see you’ve left the definition for ‘METE OUT’ blank, mhl; I assume it was meant to be ‘punish’ but it isn’t really, is it? You can mete out anything, including forgiveness and chocolate. Still, I enjoyed the puzzle, particularly the concealed almost elliptical CASANOVA. Thanks, Paul.

13. Saw the Flash Gordon movie with the kids but it was 40-odd years ago and Ming has got disassociated. Nightmare and sans merci were smooth. Thanks Paul and mhl.

14. Tough enough to be interesting, but plenty to like along the way. You know with Paul you’re going to get stretched definitions. For me, hailing from Manchester originally, BROOCH and BROACH are definitely homophones. I’m puzzled as to which word would be pronounced differently. Agree with mhl’s quibble about BEHALF being a bit different to the definition, and it was one of my last entries, but with the crossers it was clear enough. Don’t have a problem with CROOK. Perhaps only a subset of crooks get caught, but the question mark gave some latitude to the definition. Thanks to Paul and mhi

15. I am Scottish and pronounce BROOCH and BROACH the same. Not so LAVA and LARVA.

    Really enjoyed this. Favourites included: MERCILESS (made me laugh), METE OUT, EAR LOBE, FLASH GORDON and of course THE DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK

    Got CASANOVA from the crosses but didn’t spot that it was hidden…

    Thanks Paul and mhl

16. Thanks for the blog, a lot of good clues , the clue for CROOK has a question mark so he could be a caught man, I will add GEMINI to other favourites mentioned. CASANOVA has a clever link between elliptic and oval.
    MinG@3 gets an indirect reference twice. DAN@5 I say BROACH exactly the same as brooch.
    Tony@9 , see Rosella@10 , I know you print out some puzzles, try it for the Saturday and carry it around all week. I used to do this with Bunthorne and even the Everyman when I was learning.

17. Tomsdad@14 you beat me to the question mark, my typing is even slower on a Saturday morning.

18. Lovely crossword. Well covered by comments above except for 18: if there was a real word to characterise Cher I think it would have two Rs, just like furry. Thanks mhl & Paul.

19. Very hard. As usual, I was not on Paul’s wavelength.

    Favourite: NIGHTMARE (loi).

    New for me: awa’ = out in Scotland (15ac).

    Thanks, both.

20. Coming to this this morning I see I had left four clues still unsolved from last Saturday. I got BROACH and LARVA (no problem with either homophone for me), but ANNEXE and SLEEP ended up being revealed. Like mhl, Paul these days makes me feel I’m getting less smart, but I was interested to discover the HENDECAGON and the well-hidden CASANOVA, and ADHERE and MERCILESS made me smile. The CHER-RY trick is becoming a Paul trademark, along with the multiple cross-references (mercifully few in this one). Life was too short to parse THE DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK.

21. Anyone else spot EARLOBE in both Saturday prizes? Great minds etc. Thanks to both, and for getting the site back up.

22. Usually I’m on Paul’s wavelength in the sense that I solve all the clues, though seldom quickly, but this time I was left with two unsolved – just couldn’t see MISHAP, and had PARABOLA for CASANOVA – both PARA- and elliptically can sort-of mean ‘similar to’ (paramedic, etc) and BOLA could be an alternative spelling of bolo – a bolo tie being one of those American string neckties, typically with an oval clasp; and parabola, ellipse and oval are all curves. It didn’t seem quite right, and it wasn’t. The real answer is good, and I also liked CROOK (the question mark indicates that he might not actually be caught), HENDECAGON (new to me but fair), SMALL-TIME, CHERRY and most of the others, though I share doubts about BEHALF.
    Thanks Paul and mhl.

23. Good puzzle, which I only realised this morning that I hadn’t quite finished — but MISHAP, CROOK and SLEEP fell fairly quickly after a week’s subconscious thinking.

    I’ll join the chorus of agreement that BROACH and BROOCH are pronounced identically (Lancashire). I also agree that BEHALF seems to rely on a looser connection between clue and solution than is normally considered acceptable…

    Great stuff, thanks both.

24. Like Keith@12 I had GROOM, which I wasn’t convinced about. I’m only marginally more convinced by CROOK. But as ever with Paul there was much to enjoy, particularly MERCILESS / FLASH GORDON.

25. I think we’re being too kind on this puzzle. There are three howlers here on the definition front. For a definition to work it needs to be listed (preferably in Chambers, which for whatever reason seems to have become the standard for crosswords) or to be directly interchangeable with its alternative in a sentence. On this basis, METE OUT, BEHALF and MISHAP are simply wrong. I can’t believe they got past the editing process

    But it’s only a crossword, so I’ll get over it. I’m English (can you tell?) and I’ve always pronounced “brooch” as “BROACH”, even though the spelling suggests it shouldn’t be. CHERRY was my FOI (US diva is always Cher), but I was not confident. A bit dodgy. Fine with CROOK

    Elsewhere, I agree there are some really good clues. Just wish they’d tighten up on easily fixable mistakes

26. Another GROOM for CROOK her, I am ashamed to say. I thought the clue for MERCILESS was the opposite of minging.

27. Not one of Paul’s best, I thought. Too many quibbles (see previous comments) to which I would add 10a. NOT and NO (if the actor is T Hanks) don’t = never. And he’s becoming a cliché. Never heard of Ming the Merciless.
    Some nice ones though, as usual
    Thanks to Paul and mhl

28. Mike@25 – ‘There was a bit of a brick dropped/mishap on the project today’ works OK for me, but I agree about METE OUT and BEHALF

29. Pino@27 – In informal speech, “I would not/never do that”, or “Will you do that?” – “No/Never” both seem OK to me.

30. Mike@25. I tend to think differently about definitions. It doesn’t have to be exactly as defined in Chambers, or exactly substitutable in a sentence. To my way of thinking it just needs to provide ahint or allusion to the word that forms the solution. I agree that ‘as an agent’=> on behalf of=>BEHALF seems a bit of a stretch, but I think it’s fair enough.

    ‘Punish’ for METE OUT works becuase although, as KeithS@13 says, you can mete out (almost) anything, it is more often than not used in the context of punishment, and therefore works as an allusion or memory jogger.

    And the dropped brick for MISHAP was a very clever clue.

    Thanks to Paul and mhl.

31. As it was Paul, I was amazed that he didn’t use farts in the wordplay for FINE ARTS.

    I thought CASANOVA was brilliantly hidden and I liked METE OUT.

    Thanks Paul and mhl.

32. Good puzzle with smiles along the way.
    TDAMH was one of Paul’s better long anagrams. Like others I enjoyed CASANOVA, HENDECAGON and the FLASH GORDON/MERCILESS related clues – on the subject of Scottish politicians, the former Lib Dem leader Menzies (pronounced Mingiss) Campbell was often nicknamed Ming the MERCILESS.

    CHERRY was fun, though a bit of a stretch, but there is precedent for the double R: fur gives furry (but perhaps here only to distinguish from ‘fury’).

    It’s safe to say that BROACH and brooch are homophones in most accents of English – rhotic or non rhotic!

    Thanks to S&B

33. I found this puzzle reasonably do-able, but did use a word-finder for a few clues, and an anagram solver for HENDECAGON. I didn’t know this word, but I should have figured it out. I thought that either CROOK or GROOM would do, and chose the latter, so not really a failure in my mind. Some nice clues already mentioned above: THE DOG AMH, CASANOVA, FLASH G and others. Like Rosella@10, MISHAP was my LOI as well, appropriately. I note a few quibbles above. The verb to ‘METE OUT’ is often used with the noun punishment, but it does not mean to punish. That said, I disagree with Mike@25 about the Chambers dictionary as the final word. I have sometimes seen examples of bad English usage justified in puzzles because of inclusion in the Chambers dictionary. It is not enough for a usage to be in Chambers if it is a misleading usage that most people would never use. I check words with the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary and, for newish usages, Google.

34. John@33, I carry no torch for Chambers, but it does seem to be the standard in crossword-land. If there are other dictionaries that allow for the three bad definitions I’ve highlighted I will stand corrected

    Sheff@30, it really does have to be exactly. There’s an established convention on that. The fact these three clues stand out as so contestable demonstrates that they are not normal. You cannot say, “I mete out this boy for being naughty” or “I am acting behalf you” or “I dropped a mishap there”. If the clue had said “dropped brick” and had a question mark, then maybe, at a stretch, but it didn’t

35. JohnJB @33: Chambers has long been considered the definitive source for crosswords, so I’m afraid we have to put up with it. Like most dictionaries it is descriptive rather than proscriptive, so if enough instances of erroneous usage appear in print they will get listed without comment. Unfortunately it doesn’t even label usages as archaic, so we get fungus = plant and spider = insect – these were once commonplace but now jar to many of us.

36. …. that said, the three contestable clues are so because the definitions are not strictly synonymous with the solutions, despite having a semantic connection.

37. I did finish this, but thought too many of the definitions didn’t really hit the mark. I completely disagree with SH’s opinion @30. It’s not enough for definitions to vaguely allude to the answer.

    Regarding brooch/broach, I was wondering in what dialect they are pronounced differently, if any, but I notice that the American English dictionaries cited at Collins online give a rhyme with mooch as an alternative pronunciation.

38. In Norfolk we pronounce BROOCH and BROACH the same. Also LAVA and LARVA, and I would find it difficult not to pronounce them the same.
    I was defeated by MISHAP and have never heard the expression ANKLE-BITERS so dnf.

39. It’s interesting that Mike@25 says he is “fine with CROOK”, but some others have gone with GROOM and think it’s a better fit for ‘caught man?’. Also no one seems to have a problem with the definition ‘that proved divisive for some time’ at 12d. Is that in a dictionary? Or directly substituable for IRON CURTAIN in a sentence? These are allusive definitions, in a similar way to METE OUT, MISHAP and BEHALF.

    Mike@34 refers to an “established convention”, but there are plenty of instances, and not just in this crossword or with this setter, where the boundaries of the expectations of solvers have been pushed back, sometimes to the delight of us here. Sure, we’re entitled to have a little grumble if the setter seems, in our opinions, to have stretched things too far, as I would contend Paul may have done with “Caught man?”, but I maintain that MISHAP deserves applause rather than complaint.

40. Shef@39, the question mark in the CROOK clue is doing a lot of work, indicating &lit and definition by example. A caught man could be a crook, so that’s fine. 12d is an example of what you might call definition by indication. As if the setter is pointing at the IRON CURTAIN and saying, “that proved decisive for some time”. So that’s fine (actually very good). These established crossword devices do not apply to the three contested clues

41. Maybe BEHALF was intended to divide opinion 50/50 🙂

    If I wanted crosswords that stick rigidly to the “rules” I’m not sure I’d choose the Guardian

    Cheers M&P

42. Thanks to Paul for a challenging and funny puzzle. Lots to like, particularly 16/4, 22 and the related 3/26. Thanks also to mhl for the blog and for help with parsing 23D

43. Paul remains one of my top setters and this was a prime example of what makes him so enjoyable. By parts a real challenge but also lots of fun; and if he pushes a few boundaries here and there then all the better. Many ticks including MISHAP, SLEEP, TGEMH,

44. … (sorry, pressed the wrong button) and MERCILESS. Thanks also to mhl for an excellent blog

45. Mike@40. Yes, I agree that a ‘caught man’ could be a CROOK (definition by example, as you say), but the question mark – which is doing a lot of work – could have been to alert solvers to a cryptic definition for GROOM, could it not?

    I agree that the clue for IRON CURTAIN is very good, but why is a “definition by indication” acceptable to you, but a “definition by allusion” not? Maybe you will say these are established conventions, but I’m with Bodycheetah@41 – I expect things to be a little off-the-wall in Guardian crosswords. And some of us enjoy it that way. 🙂

46. I suppose CROOK could have been groom, but it would have been a particularly weak clue. And I’ve just noticed the MISHAP clue did have “dropped” in it, so my objection to that weakens (would have preferred a question mark).

    I’m all for a bit of boundary-pushing, but the other two simply don’t mean what they are supposed to be defining. I’ve been doing the Guardian crossword for a long time. I’m not sure I can remember that happening before

    But if it gets through and people like it, so be it

47. Gervase@35: During the week, we were also obliged to accept the now-obsolete and inaccurate definition of a goldcrest as a “wren” because it was still thus described in Chambers. Marking things like this as archaic or obsolete would help setters, who can’t be experts on everything and have to believe what Chambers tells them.

48. Bodycheetah@41 re BEHALF. Nice one.
    I liked MISHAP and IRON CURTAIN. These two clues read fine to me. ‘Dropped brick’ = MISHAP, P following MISHA.
    IRON is a bit weak for ADAMANT, but rest of clue is good. METE OUT was poorly defined. I wrote it down early as a possibility but delayed entering it until second last. The clue required an exact definition of PUNISH.
    I am irritated by clues which rely on bad definitions from Chambers, particularly when they cause me to waste time looking for a reasonable solution. Other timewaster clues include words and phrases from foreign languages without any hint of origin unless they have been popularly adopted into English usage. I agree with Gladys@47 that setters cannot be experts on everything, but a little bit of research is required if the setter does not know the word or if the usage is strange. Otherwise, the puzzle might as well be set by AI + Chambers.

49. I will agree with Mike @several concerning BEHALF and METE OUT , both clues could benefit from a much tighter definition, I think he has conceded the point for MISHAP = Brick dropped , this is fine.
    CROOK/groom is another issue. CROOK is far superior having clear wordplay so the cryptic definition is secondary. Also a groom is never caught, they are simply extremely fortunate to find somebody kind enough to put up with them .

50. Roz@49. Ho Ho. I’ll stick with GROOM.

51. I thought this was really hard to get started with, but I got through it in stages.

52. To drop a brick is a well-known(?) idiom meaning “to make a tactless or indiscreet remark” (Collins), while a mishap is “an unfortunate accident” (ibid). I don’t really see that “dropped brick” defines MISHAP, although it could be an example of one, possibly (for which no indication).

    With “that” as a demonstrative, “that proved divisive for some time” seems a perfectly accurate description of the IRON CURTAIN.

    Don’t agree with Mike@40 that the QM in 21ac is indicating an &lit, only a def-by-example. An EM would be more usual to indicate an &lit, if anything.

53. Don’t know about Collins. Quick check with some other dictionaries by Google allows the (euphemistic) meaning of MISHAP as “a small mistake”. SOED has “To have the misfortune to do something”. Anyway, it was near enough for me, and it enabled me to enter the very doubtful METE OUT.

54. For some reason, after a very long run of completed Prize puzzles I was unable to get anywhere remotely near Paul’s wavelength on this one ! My first pass revealed only three answers in 40 minutes, and I wasn’t able to summon the enthusiasm to have a further crack thereafter. On the other hand I completed today’s Prize in the same timescale. Go figure, as they say across the pond ! Many thanks to mhl for the blog.

55. Came back to this after finishing the easier Philistine and wondered why it seemed so impenetrable last Saturday (too many Bushmills perhaps).
    [Roz, you may be amused to know that my surname is not Groom but….with an s. But don’t tell anyone, it’s a secret]

    Ta Paul & mhl.

56. [AlanC@55 more evidence for CROOK over groom then since you seem to get some reference in every puzzle. Also helps to explain your role in Special Branch and your allegiance to KPR . There was a footballer once called Garth .. who lived near to us when I was very young, and probably before he became rich.
    Despite impossible odds I reached Number 1 in Cyclops yesterday, it is now 25-15. ]

57. Thanks for the blog, I was on Paul’s wavelength for this one and thoroughly enjoyed it.

    Like others I had PARABOLA for CASANOVA. Looking back at the clues it seems so obviously a hidden clue (“not entirely”) but I think I had got enough crossers to be misled by the geometrical terms in the clue. Very clever!

58. I really struggled with this. Not sure why. But I’m with Bodycheetah@41. Rule-breaking is an important factor in my enjoyment of the Guardian prize puzzles.

    CROOK was my FOI. It made me hope the puzzle might be chess-themed. I guess it was downhill after that. I had the dreaded LURGY/LURGI pencilled in for 23D and was sickened when I finally realised it had to be LARVA. The clue for DE NIRO was top-drawer.

59. Thanks Paul and mhl. I would pronounce BROOCH and BROACH the same. In fact, I would have spelt them the same, too! I had BREATH anyway, so dnf. I also had PARABOLA for 25a, ready to enjoy the ensuing argument about whether a parabola is an ellipse or not. Double dnf!

60. Thanks, Paul for a puzzle full of humour and challenge (and also for the shout-out to my home town at 15a). And thanks, mhl for the excellent blog.

    My favourite clue was 8d ANKLE-BITER, for the hilarious image conjured up by the surface. I’ll have a hard time getting that out of my head. Would you call that an eyeworm?

61. …also, perhaps no true homonyms here, but plenty of good aural wordplay.

62. Beaulieu @22, we too got PARABOLA for CASANOVA. Drat!

63. I can’t remember if I finished this (think so). Tom Hanks both….

    I do remember that it brought to mind a recent outing to a volcanic island – at one point the tour guide indicated that on the left was lava that had flowed to its position, contrasting with that on the right which had arrived there by air during the most recent eruption. The suggestion that one type might be preferred to the other led me to observe to my companion that I was ‘torn between two lavas’. (This remark met with silence.)

64. PS. I think this had too many dodgy definitions to be at all enjoyable – it just turned into a bit of a slog. To me, good crosswords are when you just KNOW when you’ve got a clue (having correctly twigged the construction). But the dodgy defs meant no hope of that.

65. Cellomaniac@61, broach and BROOCH are perfect homophones for most, if not all, Brits and, going by Collins, many or most North Americans too. Hence the multiplicity of comments asserting the identical pronunciation from people who may perhaps be assumed to hail from various different regions, even though most don’t bother to say where.

66. Oops, my apologies to all who gave their provenance when commenting on BROOCH. In fact, I think it was only Roz who didn’t, and everyone knows she lives in Brighton, or thereabouts, anyway.

67. Tony@66 I live on the NW coast of England but I was born and raised in Florence . I have not beeen to visit Brighton since I was a student.

68. Bodycheetah@41, Candymandad54@43 –
    Hear, hear!!

69. Roz@67, scusa!

70. Poor Gordon Brown, completely disregarded by solvers in 3,26

71. Tony@69 you seem to have made the classic mistake, assuming it is the minor Italian city instead of the more important district of Longton.

72. [Roz, oh, that Florence (nho)!]

73. Elshambo@70, yes, and the blogger! (Too well-known to need any explanation? It’s been 10-15 years.)

74. Paul is terrible for nonrhotic homophones lava and larva do not sound the same to me. It may be how it is pronounced in rp but there is an r in it. Claiming floored and flawed as homophones is also one of his. How many plums do you need in your mouth for that? I compensate when solving his puzzles by giving my internal voice a plummy accent.

Comments are closed.