Guardian Cryptic 29,204 by Imogen

82 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,204 by Imogen”

1. Thanks, manehi. I couldn’t see th definition for OUR FATHER, and I couldn’t parse DRAG RACE.

   I thought this was slightly easier for an Imogen. I tried EYES (II) for LEGS until the check button contradicted me. In TRURO I had TRUTH for faith, but I see TRUST is better.

   Thanks Imogen

2. I struggled with some of the definitions and some of the parsing, but somehow managed to finish reasonably quickly.
   Thanks to Imogen and Manehi

3. Well, you ring the bell on a bus, but nho
   requesting on trains. Loved the body sounder and the Our Father petition. Had a girlfriend once who went to Dartington, but Roedean was a dnk. Nice steady solve, ta Im and man.

4. Thanks Imogen and manehi
   I enjoyed this, but was definitely on Imogen’s wavelength. Favourites STETHOSCOPE and EIDERDOWN. ROEDEAN and DRAG RACE might cause problems overseas!

5. Only got the bean (LOI) because I needed a Z and a K to finish the alphabet.
   This was hard for my little brain. And I love cricket.

6. No problem for me with DRAG RACE muffin @4. Isn’t it just petrol heads doing their bit for the environment?

7. I couldn’t equate request with stop, and would never have thought of a “sort of stop” on a train or bus. Couldn’t parse DRAG RACE as I have no interest in cricket history. I knew a sett was a badger’s burrow, but earth? I had a very vague recollection of Truro, but I’d be surprised if anyone here had heard of Roedean school.

   These were my speed bumps; all else was smooth sailing and enjoyable. I’ve often found this setter’s too challenging, so I’m happy to have finished today with a smile.

8. Well spotted McCourtney@5. Missed the pangram. Liked the constructions in STETHOSCOPE and ASPIDISTRA. Mainly on the easier side of Imogen’s puzzles, but lots to enjoy. Thanks to Imogen and manehi.

9. ‘Request stop’ was easily remembered by this old timer. The other type of stop where buses had to call compulsorily was called a ‘fare stage’. In the London area the bus stand signs had different colours for the LT symbol: White on a red background for Request, and red on white for Fare Stage.

   I found this one of the easiest Guardian puzzles I have tackled.

10. Top-notch stuff from Imogen. Favourites STETHOSCOPE and QUAINT. To my great shame TRURO was my next-to-last one in, even though I grew up there.

11. Did anyone else waste time on the south-west by putting in SIDE for Eleven, and, with vague memories of F1 racing, trying to make GRID ?A?E fit 17D? I certainly did.

12. No prob here either with drag race, muffin @4; knew about the great WG.

13. Geoff@7: I had a vague memory of Roedean being a sort of girls’ Eton (have now found Thunderbirds’ Lady Penelope was an alumna) .

14. I normally find Imogen’s puzzles rather difficult and so, having breezed pleasingly swiftly through this one, it must be one of his easier oeuvres. (The alternative being that I’m improving, which seems unlikely.)
    I had lots of ticks, too many to list all, but my faves were EIDERDOWN, DEED, JAPE & LEGS. I also loved the well-hidden IDLE.
    I hadn’t realised, until reading the blog, that trains have request stops too: as a Londoner born & bred, I know them all too well from busses, perhaps railway request stops are rural ones.
    Thank you manehi for the help completing the parsing of DRAG RACE:
    I didn’t know WG Grace had also been a doctor.
    And hearty thanks to Imogen for the entertainment.

15. ROEDEAN is a stereotypically posh girls’ school, along with a couple of others. There are several request-stop railway stations on the North Wales section of the London to Holyhead line, although only for local trains. And yes, you stand on the platform, stick your arm out and hope for the best.

16. Slow typing here, sorry PeterM@13.

17. Got there, but mystified by the parsing of a few – ADZUKI was certainly one of them. Didn’t know EXPRESSIVO or CROSS INDEX, but the clueing said they had to be that. Felt lucky that the grid allowed me to insert STETHOSCOPE and ARRIVERDERCI without me being particularly confident of the central vowel in each case. By the by, has anyone who has been trying the Quiptic this week noticed that it has been rather cryptic and witty in nature each day?
    Thanks Imogen and Manehi this morning…

18. Wellbeck@14…many years ago when we buried my grandfather in Beckenham Cemetery, I was surprised to stumble across the great “WG”‘s grave there too…

19. Like MCourtney, I too was looking for the K and Z to complete the pangram so it was a write-in without having nho. Blaise @11: I also wasted time with SIDE, which was perfectly valid. Nice steady solve with excellent clues already mentioned by others.

    Ta Imogen & manehi.

20. Ronald @17. I’m confused re your Quiptic comment – the puzzle only appears on Monday.

21. Thanks manehi.
    As I was encouraged in my youth, don’t say anything if you can’t say anything positive. How is one supposed to know ROEDEAN with crossers being common letters ? (despite the obvious wordplay and acknowledgment of my deficiency in UKGK, no complaints about that}.
    ASPIDISTRA I did know. There’s a funny song .. but it must be so old, like me, than when I search for it it doesn’t come up. ADZUKI FOI and more to my taste. :-} The chance of a pangram didn’t help the rest of the solve.
    How is woman ‘her’ in OUR FATHER, why not woman’s (in a different construction? It doesn’t make sense OUR FAT HER?
    Going to bed now, hopefully will wake up on the right side tomorrow.

22. For the Aussies on here, a “Request Stop” is one where you yell out “Hey, Maaaate, pull over will ya”.

23. You’re thinking of this paddymelon @21?

    There’s also “Keep The Aspidistra Flying” by George Orwell.

24. Crispy@20…sorry, I meant the Guardian Quick Crosswords, Mon, Tues, Wed this week…

25. Re Blaise@11. Yes, I too had SIDE for 21, which held me up for ages! And I had RAINFALL for 7, with similar results!!! Nice XW. Thanks all

26. grantinfreo@3: On one of Portillo’s series he found there was a halt timetabled as a request stop, and was filmed holging his arm out for an approaching train which then duly stopped for him to board. I do wonder whether that would have gone so well for a solitary person without a film crew, though?

27. Tim@23. Yes, that’s the song. Thank you! I can go to bed laughing now.

28. paddmelon@21 Is this it: Biggest Aspidistra in the World

29. Good fun with ticks for RAINDROP, ASPIDISTRA, and the Rufusian WHAT ABOUT

    I like Imogen’s trademark quirky definitions; “a bit of a shower”, “being on duty” etc.

    Muffin – I thought I could rELY on you for a quibble over TRURO=CATHEDRAL 🙂

    Cheers M&I

30. Ronald @24. Thanks for clearing that up. At least that’s one thing I’m no longer confused about.

31. Jackkt @9 : There are still request stops ubiquitously in London. White for compulsory stops and red for requests.

32. Considering drag racing had its origins in California, I can’t see why it would particularly trouble overseas solvers?

33. Just about my level and a relief after yesterday’s torture. Smug getting ARRIVIVEDERCI but failed to parse STETHOSCOPE despite having down some typesetting last century.
    Thanks both.

34. Lots to like here, favs were18 and 25. Think this might be the first time I’ve actually solved an Imogen without help so feeling good. (Was just held up for a few moments by putting rainfall at 7 – which made sense but gave awkward crosser at 12)

35. [Ronald @18: thanks for that info; if I’m ever in that area, I’ll drop by. A family legend has my great-grandfather playing cricket with the renowned gent. Exactly what transpired depends on which member of the family is telling the story and how much they’ve had to drink. His being a doctor has never been mentioned…]

36. [Yes, Dave Ellison@28. Ahhh, memories, while I’ve still got them. ]

37. Good straightforward puzzle. Liked ARRIVEDERCI, STETHOSCOPE among others – for both of these, along with ESPRESSIVO and ADZUKI, I was glad that the wordplay confirmed the spelling without my having to think about it. My only dislike (with GDU@7) was sett=earth in SET-TO; maybe it’s supported by some dictionary somewhere?

    Deegee@32, I think the implication was that the wordplay rather than the definition would be a problem for those who hadn’t heard of cricketer Dr WG Grace. IMO it’s a fair clue – I have zero interest in baseball, which is hardly played here in the UK, but I’ve heard of Babe Ruth and Joe Dimaggio.

    Thanks both.

38. Wellbeck@35…there have of course been many books written about WG. The most recent I have read was Richard Tomlinson’s 2016 “Amazing Grace – The Man Who Was WG”. Hopefully separating fact from fiction using the most recent research…

39. As an Irishman I prefer to parse ‘British Isles’ as UK(&)I rather than the UK.. I(sles) approach

40. Fun puzzle with some clever definitions and ingenious constructions. Just to pick a few I would commend STETHOSCOPE, EIDERDOWN, DRAG RACE, and CARPE DIEM, which raised a snigger.

    bodycheetah @29: It is I who complain about cathedral = ELY. TRURO is even more iffy, but I wasn’t going to mention it… 🙂

    Thanks to S&B

41. Thanks for the blog, I actually wrote in SIDE and had to mess up my grid once I put the Downs in. Did not know ESPRESSIVO but the wordplay very clear .
    Perhaps this was a Spock puzzle.

42. I think of SETT for badgers and EARTH for foxes , but Chambers93 gives a badger’s burrow for the first and just burrow for the second so it is justified.

43. Yes, very straightforward but I am finding Imogen’s clues and puzzling increasingly delightful – ARRIVADERCI being a super example of his elegance….

    Many thanks, both and all

44. Heracles@39 – I agree – I’m !rish, too. “Thank Zeus We’re Surrounded By Water” (1966) by The Dubliners, lyrics by Dominic Behan.

45. An enjoyable tussle in the early hours but late to post as I have had to take the trusty Apple Mac in for repairs. I now find myself more fingers and thumbs than usual on a borrowed laptop and missing all my usual crosswordy links and websites. At least 225 is easy to remember. CARPE DIEM, STETHOSCOPE, ARRIVIDERCI, ROEDEAN (yes, tricky if you don’t have the GK but a nice clue if you do), ESPRESSIVO, RAINDROP, YAMMERED and SET-TO were my favourites.

    Thanks Imogen and manehi

46. TRURO is the only city in Cornwall and has the only cathedral in Cornwall.

47. [Roz @41 &42: many thanks for your comment of early this morning, duly acknowledged by the setter]

48. I wouldn’t have spotted ADZUKI if I hadn’t needed a Z for the pangram – I thought the beans were ADUKI – or is that something else?

    Anyway, I expect Imogen to be tough but fair, and this was that (though I didn’t know OPALINE glass and die=long took a while to click.) Favourites OUR FATHER, RAINDROP, WHAT ABOUT and EIDERDOWN.

    Thanks for the Gracie Fields links. ASPIDISTRAS were a favourite Victorian houseplant because they are practically unkillable and could survive the dismal growing conditions of the average parlour. Not called the Cast Iron Plant for nothing.

49. Transport for London (TfL) changed the rules on bus stops in 2008, didn’t tell anyone, and didn’t change the signs. All stops are now treated equally.
    Drivers are supposed to stop at any stop where someone is waiting – so you don’t need to stick your hand out at a white-on-red REQUEST stop.
    But they won’t stop if there’s nobody waiting – so don’t assume they’ll automatically stop at a red-on-white “fare stage” stop. Always ring the bell. I’ll stop now.

50. I’m another who only got ADZUKI because I was looking for the pangram. That’s unusual for me: I rarely spot pangrams, and I believe this is the first time it actually helped with the solve.

    I had not heard of Dr. Grace, but inferred his existence by the BIFD-then-parse method. Also hadn’t heard of ROEDEAN, but once I had all the crossing letters, that was the only plausible arrangement of the anagram fodder.

    On trains in America, request stops are called flag stops. Used to be you’d raise a wooden flag to signal the train to stop. In the modern version, you hit a switch that turns on a signal light a ways up the line. (Back when I had a lengthy reverse commute by rail to the Indiana suburbs, the train I took had two flag stops along the way. Neither one was needed very often.) On buses, all stops are request stops–with the obvious exception of termini, I have never seen a mandatory bus stop.

51. Frankie G @49: that’s always how it’s been on buses here: all stops are by request only, even the busiest (with the obvious exception of termini). Unlike a train, a bus moves slowly enough that the driver can see people waiting in plenty of time to stop, so all you have to do is stand in the bus stop looking like someone who wants to board a bus. (And yes, to get off, you ring the bell.)

52. Thought this impenetrable on first pass, but in fact it was really nicely constructed so that the crossers and clueing made the novelties and obscurities eminently gettable. Top marks for STETHOSCOPE, ARRIVEDERCI, OUR FATHER and WHAT ABOUT. New to me: “con” for “study” and SETT for “earth”.

53. Thanks both,
    Heracles@39: I have a particularly PC friend who steadfastly refers to the British Isles as the ‘North-West European Archipelago ‘.

54. Thanks to Imogen for a real brain teaser. Some lovely constructions and a rare Pangram. i always spot them too late to be helpful but remain in awe of a Setter who produces one. Thoroughly enjoyed.
    Favourites: 12ac, 28ac, 13dn, 15dn, 19dn
    Thx also to manehi for the blog.

55. Thanks for the blog, manehi – and thanks to Imogen, for a crossword which I found easier than his usual offerings.
    Some very minor points on the exegesis of 15D EIDERDOWN: “made with eiderdown feathers”. Eiderdown is the down of the eider duck; there is a distinction, by no means always made, between down and feathers, in that the latter have quills (which would make for a very uncomfortable bed covering); and if you bought an eiderdown for your bed nowadays, it would probably be filled with goose down (if not a synthetic substitute).

56. Foxes have earths while badgers have setts, so if you want to be pedantic the one is not the same as the other.

57. Great fun.
    Never heard of a request stop for a train; maybe the Titfield Thunderbolt?

58. Got half-way through this last night and ran into a wall; this morning had an ESPRESS..O and polished it off in no time, so can’t really say where it fits on the difficulty scale.

    I’m not normally very keen on Imogen puzzles, but found this one very clever (maybe on the verge of too-clever at times). Liked STETHOSCOPE, CARPE DIEM, ARRIVEDERCI, even got LEGS (but I had the L).

59. B(as)ICS – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bic_Cristal
    ‘…introduced in 1950 and is the best-selling pen in the world, with the 100 billionth sold in September 2006′
    Let’s say they’re 15cm long, that’s 1.5 trillion cm or 150 million km – can that be right?
    And ff they “were laid end to end… …I wouldn’t be at all surprised.’ © Dorothy Parker

60. Nobody seems to have mentioned another song that came to mind, probably because it’s a very rude one. First time I heard of Roedean was during the singing at a local rugby club…..
    Well, it cheered me up as I found today’s crossword too hard by a long way.

61. Thanks both for the entertainment. Some of Russian dolls here (TRURO, ASPIDISTRA (CARPE DIEM?)) but no less enjoyable for that.

    Heracles@39/FrankieG@44: I propose it’s not unreasonable to ask us to lift and separate the British (UK) Isles (I) to get …UKI as indicated in manehi’s blog.

62. Spotting the pangram certainly helped speed this along.

    Lots of clues to like – esp BASICS, STETHOSCOPE, DRAG RACE and EXPOSE.

    Thanks Imogen and manehi

63. I enjoyed this. Like manehi, I liked IDLE and EIDERDOWN. I also had ticks for LEGS, SET-TO and ESPRESSIVO. The clue for SET-TO is bleakly appropriate to what’s happening in the news right now.
    Thanks to Imogen and manehi.

64. Crispy @20: The comment was not so unreasonable because 2 weeks ago the Quiptic did not appear until Thursday. However, there is only one a week.

65. Surprised no one’s mentioned this is a pangram yet. Also ‘British Isles’ isn’t technically ‘U.K. and I’ sue to the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, so ‘British = U.K.’ works better (politics aside and ignoring some people’s objections to the term ‘British Isles’ being used full stop).

66. LTL @65
    Read the previous posts more carefully 🙂

67. A little easier for me than the average Imogen puzzle. I enjoyed Googling to check entries today, with nice pics of Truro cathedral and opaline glass.
    One minor niggle: I thought we’d established that caught = c and court = ct? Not that this stopped me getting the plant (after the crossers were in). I guess a more thorough trawling through crickets scorecards than I bothered to do would confirm it.
    Thanks, I and m.

68. Thanks manehi, i had a similar slow start to Mandarin and while i can see why it would be classed as easier than many Imogenic puzzles there were many revisits needed before it all slotted into place, ADZUKI last but nice to construct from the wordplay (a lucky guess as Z more plausible than X or Y, of course I missed the pangram).

    I remember a West Walian holiday destination of my youth being a halt/request stop, and surely fictional Black Rock (of Bad Day fame) is one (flag stop) too? And wasn’t it an Aspidistra in the Adventure Game?

    I’ve really come to enjoy Imogen’s sly wit so thanks to him for the puzzle. [KateE@60 i played rugby for many years but don’t know that song so am now off on a search for online evidence!]

69. An enjoyable solve. Thanks, Imogen.

70. PeterM@26 The loneliest request stop in my experience is Rannoch Station (look it up on the map), where you worry, not just whether the train will stop on request, but whether it will even turn up.

71. Many years ago there was a London Transport poster which said,

    At the Bus Stop raise your hand,
    The driver he will understand.

    Under which someone wrote, based on experience

    He’ll understand, the awkward cuss,
    But will he stop the bloody bus?

    Thanks to Imogen and manehi

72. I don’t get all this excitement over the PANGRAM. Can somebody explain to this dimwit exactly what I’m missing? Thanks.

73. CHN @72: a pangram is a puzzle which contains every letter of the alphabet within its solutions. And there can be doubles, trebles etc. Some solvers are underwhelmed by them; some love to find them; some find them helpful if suspected part way through as they hint to what letters may be yet to come; many don’t notice them. You pays yer money …

74. Thanks @PostMark. Actually I browsed around and got the answer you just posted and indeed I did feel a little so-what about it initially, but after a little consideration I’m sold; very clever way to indicate the correct lettering of 19d, which needless to say passed completely over my head.

75. KateE@60,

    That sounds like the Whoredean School song, as featured on an LP of rugby songs which came into my possession in the 1960s. I think I can still remember the words – misspent youth to the fore once again ! Excellent, vocabulary-expanding puzzle anda panoramic to boot – many thanks to Imogen and to manehi.

76. phitonelly @67. The C vs CT discussion came up recently in Azed 2671. As I understand it both C and CT can be used for “caught”. As I said there “Also C = Caught in C2016 but I understand that CT is used by cricket scorers (for example here)”

77. Tim C @76,
    Thanks for the reply. I missed the Azed discussion, unfortunately. For some reason, I’ve never felt the urge to try Azed. Thanks also for the link to a real life example of the usage. That’s always the clincher for me.

78. J@9 : in my bus days, and aren’t we all living in that past…EIDERDOWN indeed!…the “fare stage”, as the words say, was where the fare increased., by a penny. It was generally also a “request” stop. But I was not in London so maybe different down there.
    Particularly liked STETHOSCOPE
    Thanks both …

79. Thank you for the instructions for scorers Tim C@76. I wish I had been given a copy of those when scoring for my son’s U10 team in Brisbane (especially when he scored 5 penalty runs – fortunately the umpire had been a professional umpire and came over to explain to me and the other equally confused scorer).

80. I’ve recently successfully flagged down rural trains in wales and in devon..and boarded with my bike. A very welcome option when legs are tired!
    So this was one of the few clues I got! Thank you fellow crossers…this site is a great resource for learners/occasional crossers…

81. Got them all except TRURO, which was doubly-nho (the place itself and OR = other ranks = men). Nho “Dr. Grace” and couldn’t parse ADZUKI, but both were the only possible fit. ROEDEAN succumbed to Google when it was obvious it was an anagram.

    Completely missed the pangram… Tea tray time.

82. Favourites: DEED, STETHOSCOPE, ADZUKI.

    I did not parse 21ac LEGS = eleven; 13d; 23d.

    Thanks, both.

Comments are closed.