Guardian 29,205 / Pangakupu

96 comments on “Guardian 29,205 / Pangakupu”

1. Thanks, aeileen. Great puzzle and blog. I think 12 is ROGER (I heard you) minus first R around L.

2. Eileen. Sorry for typo!

3. Many thanks, James – that’s it, of course!

4. TUTORS
   Initially Over Red Socks=ORS

5. The clue for HEIR APPARENT in the paper is “A lot about one King and father, perhaps – to me?” Where does the “round” come from?

6. For 13, my (online) version has … about one King… Which makes more sense of the R. Maybe they corrected a mistake, and you were working from an earlier version

7. Thanks, Pangakupu and Eileen!
   STANCE
   I have the same parsing. I have limited golf knowledge. Someone will clarify.

8. Thanks, Eileen – I think it is (r)OGER = ‘I heard you’ around L?

9. I agree with jamesg@1 that wordplay is (r)og L er. But I was uneasy about OGLER as ‘one’s observed rudely’, surely that would be the oglee rather than ogler?

10. 23 Continue to run amok, returning after detective apprehends Nationalist or Red (5,4)
    PINOT NOIR
    PI (Private Investigator – detective) + a reversal (returning) of RIOT ON (continue to run amok) round N (Nationalist)

    Was convinced this was some kind of reshuffling of POIROT and I still don’t want to move on even now.

11. Slow start but the down clues helped to slot everything into place. Couldn’t explain ogler either. A one tea-break puzzle.

12. Enjoyable puzzle. I await explanations of Eileen’s remaining question marks!

    Thanks pangakupu and Eileen

13. HEAP (a lot) around I (one) and R (rex = King)

14. I concur with James G @1 for OGLER. It was one of my favourites. Very clever.
    ORS is “initially Over Red Socks” in TUTORS
    Other favourites were TUTTI for a great surface and GIGOLO just for the GIGO.

15. CG @9 I think you have to construe ‘one’s’ as a contraction of ‘one has ..’ – past tense.

16. 26A – is ROY(ALMOST) a proper word for a monarch?

17. Why is a turn a performer? Stance/address was a bit hard to understand, and still is after reading Eileen’s quote from the bible. I was totally baffled by OGLER — thanks James G — and STAG NIGHT. Never heard of TWILIGHT. Parsing PINOT NOIR was beyond me.

    So I only completed about two thirds. But it was worth it all to learn that Epping’s in Essex. 😉

18. Thanks KVa @4 – I’ll amend as soon as I can.

    Lord Jim @5 and James G @6
    I have no idea what happened there. I solved this in the early hours, before my paper had arrived, copying and pasting the clues from the online print version. I don’t know how on earth the rogue ’round’ crept in. I thought the surface didn’t make much sense!

19. And Epping’s also in Sydney GDU @17 I lived there for many years.

20. CanberraGirl @9 “one’s” = “one has” = “somebody who has”

21. HEIR APPARENT
    King: False capitalisation?
    A lot about one king and father to me (the heir apparent). Does it mean this:
    It’s a lot about a king who is my father.
    Or ‘a lot’ refers to ‘the wealth to be inherited’?

22. I think the nina is in column 6 – TIPENE – Maori for Stephen. Have been looking for a surname but cannot find one.
    I love the word SPIGOT and loved the clue.
    Thank you Pangakupu and Eileen.

23. I found that far to tricksy to be really enjoyable.

    Tipene (in column 6). Maori for crown, and Stephen.

    Thanks Pangakupu and Eileen

24. I didn’t know APP as an abbreviation for “apparently” but there it is in Chambers. Hey ho

    Pangakapu isn’t one of my favourite setters but I really enjoyed this with ticks for OGLER, ROB ROY, ACTOR, and GIGOLO for today’s earworm

    GDU@17 a TURN is just another word for an act – typically in a variety show. Anyone remember the Wheeltappers & Shunters Social Club?

    Cheers P&E

25. Like others, didn’t get roger, and had the same ? as CanberraGirl, but it’s probly an indirect def via ‘one has’ as Balfour @15 says. Liked eightieth, tutti and temerity. Thanks PnE.

    [Heard “three-line whip” in the wild today. Life imitating crosswordland. Rory Stewart used it while chatting to my beloved Phillip Adams on Late Night Live, great interview … ]

26. Interesting discussion above, all over my head. Like Eileen I eventually got on P’s wavelength and completed despite bunging in some words that fitted and pressing the check button. So thank you – Eileen and all – for the parsing and to Pangakupu for the puzzle. Favourite was PINOT NOIR, I wonder why?!

27. Pretty sure there’s a Schubert septet somewhere among my vinyls, dunno if he did any octets 🙂

28. Thanks racenrider@20 and balfour@15

29. Very tough but I mostly enjoyed this puzzle. Gave up on SW corner – failed to solve 23ac, 25ac, 18d, 19d.

    Of the ones I solved, I did not parse:
    12ac apart for L=student and R=first rector? Og I see, very clever.
    7d apart from LO=look. Never heard of GIGO (garbage in, garbage out – programmer’s mantra) and can’t even begin to understand what that means!

    Favourite: HEIR APPARENT.

    Thanks, both.

30. Eileen @18 did you know that you can copy and paste the clues from the anagram helper in the online (not print) version?

31. michelle @29 – see here: https://techterms.com/definition/gigo

    Dave @30 – I didn’t know there was an ‘anagram helper’!

    I have to go out shortly and so I hope all the problems are now resolved. 😉
    (I can keep up with the comments, but can’t amend the blog away from home.)

32. I have got nothing so far. Is there any anagram clues that could get me started without revelaing any answers?

33. Steffen@32: 17a is an anagram clue.

34. Enjoyed this and found it easier than previous puzzles this week.

    Favourites were: SPIGOT, SCREECHY, HEIR APPARENT, SATURNINE, SAPPHO

    I don’t get how “desert” = “merit”
    Thanks in advance to anyone who enlightens me

    Thanks Pangakupu and Eileen

35. Help me out here. MERIT = DESERVE to me, not “desert” .

36. Pangakupu is not a favourite setter, but I managed most of this apart from PINOT NOIR (riot on, backwards? really? After revealing it, I spotted the parsing, but how does anyone solve this the “right” way round?) Didn’t know the pho soup, either, and failed to identify the truncated “fantastic” word in TWILIGHT. I haven’t met WEATHERCASTER before, though it wasn’t a problem to solve.

    Liked HEIR APPARENT, EIGHTIETH and BANISTER for its creative punctuation: “Rail: is seen in raillery” would have been far too easy!

37. Re desert: Colliins says ‘often plural’ – I’d say ‘almost always’, as in ‘just deserts’ – what one deserves / merits.0

38. Get one’s “just deserts”. What one merits.

39. “Desert” as a noun meaning deservingness, or merit, does exist but is pretty archaic – the only example that comes to mind is this: George Herbert’s version of the 23rd Psalm, which was still being sung as a hymn in my youth.

40. KVA@7: Golfers address the ball (verb) and also speak of their address (noun) as broadly synonymous with their stance. So a coach might tell a student “take your address”.

    I enjoyed this puzzle, it was ingenious enough to be interesting while still fairly accessible. The noodle soup was new to me, but the answer had to be SAPPHO so that wasn’t a problem. VERY much liked PINOT NOIR.

    Thanks to Pangakupu and Eileen.

41. A tough solve but not depressingly tough. Thanks Pangakupu, at least you saved us that.

42. Enjoyed this – actually got ROGER after staring for a while. Never came up with a completely satisfactory explanation for STANCE (part-of-speech-wise), though.

    Liked GIGOLO and PINOT NOIR.

    I found some evidence online that TAMAI (middle column) means beautiful or lovely.

43. GDU@17, and others:

    Some theatre critics famous for their ‘No turn unstoned’ approach …..

44. I liked this a lot, though I failed on PINOT NOIR.

    I don’t see the function of ‘to me’ in 13a. The clue seems to work without it.

45. Great fun and a tad easier than Pangakupu’s recent offerings I thought.

    I liked the simplicity and clarity of OVERSEER and SAPPHO

    Thanks to Pangakupu and Eileen

46. mama means boy, son, child. I am not aware of tamai, and it is not in the on-line Maori dictionary nor in my the reo dictionaries (of which I have 2). Ataahua is the word I am familiar with that means lovely or beautiful

47. Tama, not mama. Bother predictive texts. and Te reo, not the reo

48. Thank you, Charles @40, for clearing that up.

49. Ngaiolaurenson@46 it’s weak evidence, I admit, but some people are asserting it.

50. Dr.WhatsOn@49. Thanks. That’s interesting.

51. I enjoyed this a great deal more than the last two outings for this setter, although like others I struggled with parsings for OGLER and PINOT NOIR. All was forgiven, though, after the sublime clue for 17, which raised a chuckle of admiration. Many thanks to Pangakupu for the fun and to Eileen for the elucidation.

52. A mixture of some fine clues with some that I found rather tortuous (eg a 12-word clue for OGLER, although I accept it’s a difficult one to clue).

    I enjoyed the wordplay for STAG NIGHT, the good anagrams for OPEN MARRIAGE and WEATHERCASTER, and the pleasing surface for TUTORS. After looking up Danny Pino, who apparently played detectives, I thought: “that’s rather obscure for the detective in 23A”!

    Thanks to Eileen for explaining (red)ACTOR and to Pan for the mental workout.

53. GDU@17 and others. Diana Rigg compiled a book called “No Turn Unstoned”, a collection of the worst ever theatrical reviews. Well worth a browse. Many many thanks to Eileen and others for the parsing which defeated me. And thanks to the setter too, of course.

54. [Tricky@43: The sign on the right shoulder of highway directing visitors to Ken Kesey’s notoriously Bohemian property apparently read, “No Turn Left Unstoned”.]

55. I knew TURN as a performance, not a performer. Couldn’t parse OGLER, so thanks for that. And I’ve always spelled the phrase as “just desserts.” Live and learn.

56. A lot of fun here and fairly gentle for a Thursday; I couldn’t parse OGLER though I should have known, and PHO was new to me, though SAPPHO was pretty obvious. I loved OPEN MARRIAGE (though at first I wrote in ‘carriage’ – don’t know why.

    And GIGOLO. I don’t dispute the ‘programmer’s mantra’ – as an ex-software guy I have fond memories of it. But I have an alternative mantra which I’ve found pertinent many a time …
    “Ten software bugs,
    Lurking in the code.
    Ten software bugs,
    Lurking in the code.
    And if I fix one bug, and re-compile the code,
    There’ll be eleven software bugs,
    Lurking in the code.”

    Only too true (the know-it-alls at Microsoft, Google et al please take note!)

    Thanks to Panga and Eileen.

57. @27 grantinfreo – Schubert wrote one of the two most famous and beloved octets in the standard repertoire, the other being by Mendelssohn. I’m pretty sure that he didn’t write a septet, the most famous of those being by Beethoven.

58. … and Schubert wrote it after being asked to compose a similar piece to the Beethoven.

59. Thanks to Pangakupu for the puzzle and to Eileen for the parsing. I needed your help to explain ROB ROY, APPARATUS and GIGOLO. My favourite clue was for OPEN MARRIAGE. Very clever.
    I like the clue for GIGOLO, but when I was a young and rarely competent programmer, the word we used was “rubbish”, not “garbage”. There was no need for an abbreviation or acronym; when my Scottish boss said, “Rubbish in, rubbish out!” it was quite terse enough, thank you very much.

60. For the many apparently unfamiliar with pho, it’s delicious and subtly flavored–and unlike many Asian foods, not normally very spicy. The key to good pho, I have it on good authority, is getting the beef broth right. Once you have that, the rest falls into place. It’s generally served with a plate of fresh accouterments (basil, bean shoots, lime wedges, a few others) that can be added in at the eater’s discretion. You also add sriracha to taste if you do want a little kick. By the way, it’s pronounced with a short O; hence there’s been more than one pho joint with the jokey name “What The Pho?”

    (I live a mile away from Chicago’s Vietnamese neighborhood (Argyle), so.)

61. *accoutrements. Stupid phone

62. rosencrantz@10 – https://www.fifteensquared.net/2017/01/01/guardian-genius-162-enigmatist/ – Detective‘s drunk inn out of Pinot Noir, unfortunately (6)

63. OVERSEER and BANISTER were my favourites. Quite a lot of ‘bung and hope’ answers, so many thanks to Eileen and others for the parsings. Thanks Pangakupu.

64. Saddler@26: almost ALL gives you AL. Then subtract AL from ROYAL.

65. The surface of 11aq makes no sense.

    rosencranz@10 I was with you on POIROT.

    A friend of mine described the Schubert Octet as “the happiest piece of music in the world.”

    6d A DOWNER is something depressing, but I’m not sure it’s a depression.

    Eileen, thanks for parsing TUTORS and SAPPHO.

    If the TUTORS clue refers to the baseball team, they’re spelled Red Sox.

    Thanks, :Pangakapu and Eileen.

66. Thanks Pangakupu. This started out slowly but once I reached a critical mass of solutions I could guess the rest from the crossers and then parse. I liked many of the clues including the superb OPEN MARRIAGE, HEIR APPARENT, OVERSEER, TUTORS, BANISTER, and RATIO. I couldn’t parse GIGOLO; I parsed OGLER after guessing it but I thought the clue should have read “one observes rudely”, not “one’s observed rudely”. Thanks Eileen for the blog.
    [I second what mrpenny @60 wrote about the national dish of Vietnam, pho. We have a large and vibrant Vietnamese community in the Washington, DC area and are lucky to have a multitude of places to eat that excellent soup.]

67. I wasn’t familiar with the Twilight books, but the wordplay was clear. I only know PHO through doing crosswords, but hey.
    I sort of understand where there is a definition of HEIR APPARENT, but I really don’t think the clue is fair, misprint or no misprint.
    Good fun apart from that. Thanks Pangakapu and Eileen.

68. Chewy this one, but completed and mostly parsed.

    For the Australians chuntering that Epping is in Sydney or Tasmania, how do you think they got the name but from Epping exports – expats or convicts? Its name derives from old English and means a settlement on a hill and there are something like 11 worldwide including some in Canada and the USA. And for the guys in Sydney, St Alban’s church also links to Epping in Essez.

    Epping Forest was a big highwayman hangout back when transportation was a thing, Dick Turpin was part of the Gregory gang, for a while, and they terrorised the area for many years.

    Thank you to Eileen and Pangakupu.

69. Too late to add much, I’m afraid.

    Nice puzzle with some ingenious clues, if rather prolix. I parsed everything as previous posters have confirmed. Favourites: STAG NIGHT, HEIR APPARENT, OPEN MARRIAGE, SATURNINE.

    Thanks to Pangakupu and Eileen

70. Re: address/stance, there is a famous “Honeymooners” episode in which Ed Norton exhorts Ralph to “address the (golf) ball.”

71. Valentine @65

    The TUTORS clue does not refer to the baseball team – please see my amendment to the blog, thanks to KVa @4 et al. (I don’t deserve your thanks for the parsing. 😉 )

    Re 11ac: I did think the surface was clever: the i is the newspaper (see here https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/i-newspaper, whose editor might conceivably be upset by an editorial (leader) in the Guardian.

    I started off down the POIROT path, too …

72. “Hello, ball!”

    Some of the clues were contrived, with too many single-letter drops and adds for my liking, but there were some very clever ones as well.

73. Re 3d OCTET, I thought using Schubert in the wordplay was apropos, and the “etc” could refer to the Mendelssohn octet, as MAC089@58 notes, and also octets by Spohr (with winds, like the Schubert) and Gade (just strings, like the Mendelssohn).

    I found this tricky, with lots of good clues; 15d BANISTER was my favourite, for the clever use of rail/raillery. Thanks P&E for the fun.

74. I increasingly enjoy this setter’s work. Favourites were OPEN MARRIAGE and WEATHERCASTER, two very fine anagrams with great surfaces. I still don’t get HEIR APPARENT – I understand the wordplay but I’m not seeing the definition.

75. Mandarin @74: HEIR APPARENT appears to be causing quite the controversy. It’s beloved here by Michelle @29 and Fiona @34 and Gladys @36 and Tony Santucci @66 and Gervase @69. Whereas you and KVa @21 and Neil H @67 are mystified by the definition. I am on your side. Presumably the question mark makes “me” a definition by example…but I do not understand why.

    As for ROB ROY, thanks to Graham H @64 for elaborating on Eileen’s parsing. But still, the entire exercise is too convoluted for my taste. Is “entirely” really the same part of speech as “all”? And then, having crossed that bridge…next to have to add “all” to ROY…in order to subtract one of its letters…in order to subtract the other two It’s enough to drive a person to drink!

    Me, I’ll have a ROB ROY (a Manhattan with Scotch substituting for Rye).

76. Pretty good puzzle, but a DNF for me, as I biffed GOGGLE (look) for 7 – not familiar with the GIGO acronym. Fave was OPEN MARRIAGE.
    Eileen @71. I think perhaps the clue should have referred to the Red Sox. Would have been a better surface, given their season this year. It would still parse in the same way.
    Thanks, P and E

77. Me @76: I suppose when one is “all shook up” one is “entirely shook up” so disregard part of that last quibble

78. Andrew @76, Mandarin, @74, et al.: our setter is bending the rules with HEIR APPARENT: I’d describe it such that the definition is the back half of the clue, some of which is also part of the wordplay. “A lot about one King and father, perhaps” is the wordplay; “King and father, perhaps – to me?” is the riddle-like definition (imagine Prince William saying it).

79. Really disliked 26a, even though I got it; it always seems over-complicated to clue through missing letters, but here even the putative missing letters have missing letters. Yuk! There must be more aesthetically pleasing ways to clue for “roy”.

80. It may just be me, but I can’t see the word SPIGOT without thinking of Dudley Moore’s unidexter actor. See if you’re none the wiser.

81. MAC089 @57/8, many hours later, hmm, thanks for that. Will have to dig in the archives to see what isbthere … the sept of Lud or the oct of Franz …

82. Thanks Eileen for supplying two or three parsings and Charles@40 for the golf lesson (and Criceto for the link!).

    Can’t help with APP: Collins online has app=apparent but well down the page and American, source Penguin Random House but NOT in the list they have taken from Websters, has anyone seen it in the wild?

    I got lucky with helpful crossers on the ones I couldn’t fully parse, and think of GI-GO as more appropriate for modelling than programming but seems to have plenty of real world support so fair enough. I liked the appearance of Twilight despite not having read or seen it, and plenty of the other clues, thanks Pangakupu.

83. I’ll be the first to admit that this was not my finest hour (or three) as a blogger but I’m quite gratified to see that several others had issues, even after my queries / errors were resolved.

    Huge thanks to Criceto @81 for restoring some sanity to the proceedings, with the link to my comedy heroes, whom I reference myself at every opportunity when blogging, especially, the Art Gallery, where they corpse over the Leonardo cartoon and Pete by himself, not having the Latin for the judgin’. I cherish my original vinyl records, which I can accompany practically verbatim but still fall about laughing every time. A great end to the day for me. 😉

    Many thanks to all for the comments – and the assistance.

84. Late to the party today, but did think it a bit much at first to be asked for an onomatopoeic word to suit the requirements of 1d. I felt it could have been anything. However, slowly warmed to this, even though TWILIGHT simply had to be that from all the crossers being place. Not a series I had ever heard of before, either. Thought OPEN MARRIAGE excellent. Fiendish misdirection with PINOT NOIR. Last two in OVERSEER and SAPPHO. Tough but ultimately very enjoyable and satisfying…

85. grantinfreo@82.
    Coincidentally I heard a performance of Schubert’s Octet on today’s Lunchtime Concert on BBC Radio 3. Currently available on BBC Sounds. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it if it’s available down under.

86. Thanks Pino, yes the D803 in F major is listed in BBC Sounds but no, it’s “Not available in your location”. Hey ho.

87. [ Eileen@84, the judgin’ gets me every time too, along with “O saucy Worcester”. ]

    P.S. Did you bring the picnic basket?

88. [Hermano@75 – your words “far too clever by half” awaken a memory for me. Those exact same words were levelled at me some years ago (by someone who shall be nameless 🙂 on the BD site) .

    So my general question is: should a setter be ‘clever’ – by which I mean ‘deceptive, misdirecting, etc.’? I think pangakupu – a relative newcomer to the Graun – fits that description well, and I’m glad of it. I did not choose my moniker completely at random…!

    To me at any rate, it’s really quite satisfying to have to put someone’s crossword aside in dismay and frustration – only to pick it up a few hours later with a big “Aha!!” moment.

    Of course as a retiree I have that luxury. Boatman, in his class, did sternly remind us that such tactics do not necessarily suit the solver who’s trying to get it finished before the 8:19 arrives at Waterloo…]

89. Epping today, next stop North Weald, then Blake Hall… …tomorrow ARGON*

90. I’m a day behind, so no one will see this, but I thought HEIR APPARENT worked just fine. Surely solvers have seen ‘me’ as a definition before (or equivalents such as ‘this’)?

    And DOWNER for ‘depression’ seems ok to me too. And I’m not an expert on golf, but ‘address’ for STANCE made perfect sense.

    I’ll stop now, because I know how annoying it can be when someone describes as obvious something that I’m still puzzled about. Just on the off chance someone is reading this…

    Thanks to Pangakupu and Eileen as always.

91. Thanks, sheffield hatter: I saw it, of course – and I’m largely in agreement with you.

92. FrankieG @90 – not directly, and not unless you’re transported by steam (or other vintage engine).

93. I never heard of WEATHERCASTER. Is that what a forecaster is now? I suppose they throw the weather at us now. Certainly they did today in UK.
    Thanks both

94. One of my better efforts! All completed and parsed, with the possible exception of HEIR APPARENT. I interpreted PARENT to be indicated simply by “father”, with the literal clue then being “perhaps to me?” The setter is apparently an heir.

95. 23 Outlaw to plunder King, say, almost entirely escaping

    I parsed this as Rob (sounds like Roi- French for King)

96. “Spigot by name Spigot by nature”.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbnkY1tBvMU

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