A good combination of clue types in this week’s Prize puzzle.
There were some unfamiliar words – e.g. SCANTLE and ORNITHOID, but all the wordplay was fair, even if I have to raise an eyebrow at the definition for YTTERBIA. As a scientist, Timon thinks that these things matter, and I agree with him. We particularly liked PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE and MRS MOP. Thanks to Brummie.
| ACROSS | ||
| 1 | MAZURKA |
Bad light obscures one unknown character on a set of steps (7)
|
| A Z (an unknown character – more usually x or y) inside MURK (bad light), A. Nicely misleading definition. | ||
| 5 | SCANTLE |
Old type of slate roofing in progress – can’t leak! (7)
|
| Hidden in “progress can’t leak”. Chambers defines this as ” a gauge for slates”. I’m not entirely sure if “roofing” is part of the definition. | ||
| 9 | SYNOD |
Council rejected gatherings around New York (5)
|
| NY (New York) inside DOS (gatherings, rev.). | ||
| 10 | PANORAMIC |
Vessel at Cairo museum’s entrance, unusually broad (9)
|
| PAN (vessel) *(CAIRO M(useum)). | ||
| 11 | OUTMATCHED |
Fire-starter, exposed all round gets beaten (10)
|
| MATCH (fire-starter) inside OUTED (exposed, all round). | ||
| 12 | ARUM |
A spirit flower (4)
|
| A RUM. This time flower does refer to a flowering plant, not to a river. | ||
| 14 |
See 27
|
|
| 18 | ANTAGONISTIC |
Not against being free, independent, cold and hostile? (12)
|
| *(NOT AGAINST) I(ndependent) C(old). | ||
| 21 | KLEE |
Artist gets national emblem back to front (4)
|
| LEEK (national emblem of Wales) with the last letter moved to the front. | ||
| 22 | STRUCTURAL |
Rural cuts affected outside temperature of a building (10)
|
| T(emperature) inside *(RURAL CUTS). | ||
| 25 | ROBIN HOOD |
Nick, trendy gangster and outlaw (5,4)
|
| ROB (nick) IN (trendy) HOOD (gangster). | ||
| 26 | RAMEN |
Hit English name for Japanese dish (5)
|
| RAM (hit) E(nglish) N(ame). | ||
| 27, 14 | PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE |
Life-limiting commercial policy of Republican politician harbouring colossal need (NB perverted) (7,12)
|
| *(COLOSSAL NEED NB) inside (Mike) PENCE (Republican politician). | ||
| 28 | RELAPSE |
Right, go on – backslide! (7)
|
| R(ight) ELAPSE (go on). | ||
| DOWN | ||
| 1 | MASCOT |
State needing, say, Andy Murray’s charm (6)
|
| MA (abbreviation for US state of Maine), SCOT. | ||
| 2 | ZENITH |
Top religious school badly hit (6)
|
| ZEN (religious school in Japanese Buddhism), *HIT. | ||
| 3 | RED CABBAGE |
Bloody American banknotes that might be pickled! (3,7)
|
| RED (bloody) CABBAGE (US slang for banknotes). | ||
| 4 | ASPIC |
Jelly-like image (5)
|
| AS PIC. You have to separate “jelly” from “like” to get the definition. | ||
| 5 | SENSELESS |
English short of oriental coins at first? Ridiculous! (9)
|
| SENS (Japanese coins), E(nglish) LESS (short of). | ||
| 6 | AIRY |
Unsubstantial hob lacking force (4)
|
| (f)AIRY. | ||
| 7 | TAMARIND |
Tree of south-western river in Germany (8)
|
| TAMAR (river in south-western England) IN D(eutschland). | ||
| 8 | ENCUMBER |
Hence no top and bottom on Brown’s hamper (8)
|
| (h)ENC(e) UMBER (a kind of brown). | ||
| 13 | SCRIPTURAL |
Defiled Lars’ unfinished picture of biblical content? (10)
|
| *(LARS PICTUR(e)). | ||
| 15 | ORNITHOID |
Fittipaldi’s bottom pushed into hot rod in ground, swiftish? (9)
|
| (Fittipald)I inside *(HOT ROD IN). Another misleading definitiion. | ||
| 16 | BACKDROP |
Part of stage scenery support covering sink (8)
|
| A simple charade of BACK (support) and DROP (sink). | ||
| 17 | YTTERBIA |
Element one put into replacement battery (8)
|
| I (one) inside *BATTERY. The definition here is inaccurate: YTTERBIUM is the element, and YTTERBIA is its oxide. | ||
| 19 | MRS MOP |
Locks securing army officer, daily (3,3)
|
| RSM (Regimental Sergeant-Major, Army officer) inside MOP (head of hair, or locks). | ||
| 20 | FLANGE |
Raised edge of dish, say, turned over (6)
|
| FLAN (dish) EG (rev). | ||
| 23 | UDDER |
Henry Kissinger’s other bovine feature? (5)
|
| How the late Dr Kissinger might be supposed to pronounce “other”. | ||
| 24 | ANON |
Presently it could be a conspiracy theory – no question (4)
|
| (Q)ANON. |
Ended up having to reveal MRS MOP, which I had never heard of. Then again, I have never had servants, so I don’t know their titles.
Thanks bridgesong. That NW corner again! Not that I can complain, the clues were all clever and fair though I had never heard of cabbage = American banknotes. On first inspection it looked formidable but I was surprised and just a little disappointed at quite rapid progress. Plenty of misdirection here and I fell for most of it. SCANTLE was the obvious answer to 5a but my first dictionary search didn’t register it and I had to delve more deeply as the crossing letters emerged. Like you, and many others I suspect, I found that ytterbia is not the element.
The distinction is lost on me, but later comers to the puzzle would have found a Special Instruction which reads, “The start of 17d has been changed from ‘Element …’ to ‘Compound of element …’.” I don’t know whether that appeases your and Timon’s misgivings.
17 Down, Oh yes, so it has been changed, a bit late, but factually correct at least!
This was my favourite kind of Prize Crossword, it took quite a few sittings, but in the end a steady solve, leaving my two last ones, ORNITHOID and MRS MOP, but the penny eventually dropped, and very satisfying.
I found this really enjoyable and not to taxing with a bit of help from G. Loved ANON. Fortunately my chemistry didn’t go far enough down the periodic table to be bothered about YTTERBIA.
Thanks Bridgesong & Brummie.
Liked MAZURKA, PLANNED O, ORNITHOID and MRS MOP.
SCANTLE
The ‘roofing’ is hanging loose for now. Someone will have a better explanation.
MASCOT
MA: Massachusetts (ME: Maine).
Thanks Brummie and bridgesong!
You’d think that in the special instructions telling of the change in wording of the clue for YTTERBIA there might be an apology. Well, I would think so, anyway. The error didn’t hold me back, knowing it was the G., but it might have affected others.
Apart from that, enjoyed the puzzle.
Some great clues, and I particularly liked ANTAGONISTIC, ROBIN HOOD, and QANON for their surfaces & overall cleverness. And I also appreciated the variety of devices used by Brummie.
But the number of obscurities, while not excessive for crossword land, just about crossed over from interesting to frustrating for me. YTTERBIA was not just obscure to me, but doubly frustrating for being wrong once I finally worked out how to look it up. Sens in 5d is also not correct. Sen coins have not existed for a long time, and the plural of sen is “sen”, not “sens”. (The word “sen” is still very occasionally used in Japanese when talking about fractions of a yen).
Anyway, thanks Brummie for a challenging and interesting puzzle and thanks to bridgesong for a great blog
KVa @6 and bridgesong – whatever definition Chambers gives for SCANTLE, scantle slate roofing is a traditional form of roofing particularly native to Cornwall. So, yes, ‘roofing’ is part of the definition.
Spooner’s catflap@9
Didn’t know. Thanks.
Although scantle slate roofing doesn’t seem to be in the dictionaries (certainly not Chambers as bridgesong says) it’s certainly out there in the wild. This is a useful article with a possible explanation of why it’s called scantle
I’m another who had a big question mark against YTTERBIA and missed the amendment.
21a There’s a Philipp Keel, Swiss Artist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Keel. KEEL, I think, would also be a valid solution
Thanks Bridgesong & Brummie.
Much as I liked ‘MRSMOP’ I did wonder about RSM as ‘army officer’. NCO’s aren’t usually referred to as officers, although the word is part of the acronym.
My favourite was ‘TAMARIND’, once I’d finally disabused myself of the notion that the answer was a word ending in …ing.
Martyn @ 8. I wondered about that too but figured the plural refers to the coins not to the unit of currency.
Yes I looked him up too, WordSDrove @12.
Thought 17d should end in -ium, bunged it in with a shrug. Wasn’t sure where the r in Mrs Mop came from and, like Brownphel @13, wondered about the officer thing. Vaguely remembered the word scantle, if not its exact meaning. The other obscurish one, ornithoid, made etymological sense. So, enough to chew over, thanks BnB.
Gfo@1: Mrs Mop is a charlady not a servant. She is/was self employed or a company worker. I’m glad to hear of the correction to YTTERBIA, too late for me as well.
An enjoyable puzzle, thanks to setter and blogger(s).
At one point I had the whole bottom half filled in, and only SCANTLE and AIRY at the top, and even they were lightly pencilled in. Chambers had convinced me SCANTLE was at least slate-related but it didn’t seem quite right. Thanks for the link, TimC @11. YTTERBIA had to be right, but I knew it wasn’t an element (it’s not in Tom Lehrer’s list: “There’s yttrium, ytterbium, actinium, rubidium…” so that proves it). Technically I guess a non-commissioned officer must be an officer, and I did like MRS MOP, and ROBIN HOOD and ANON and a number of others. And eventually, I filled in the top half. Overall, quibbles aside, a very enjoyable puzzle. Thanks, Brummie and bridgesong.
Thinking about it some more, “Compound of element” isn’t much better. What else are chemical compounds made from?
Dr.WhatsOn@18
Agree. Also, one element doesn’t make a compound.
nicbach @16.
I don’t see a lot of distinction between a charlady and a servant, frankly. In any case, the term MRS MOP is not one you’ll find used around here. They would be called cleaners, and most likely be employees of small businesses.
When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Or
Started out on burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff
Everybody sail they’d stand behind me when the going got rough …
Yep another strong vote for 27,14a PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE – clever!
Had fun with this though it was very tough in places. Particularly liked AGARIC (and 15d ORNITHOOD for the visually interesting clue, even though it was an unfamiliar word to me.)
Much appreciated, Brummie, bridgesong and Timon.
[Thanks for the Dylan quote, grantinfreo@21 – great song!]
Thanks Brummie. This was a slog for me with too many beyond my orbit but I still found much to enjoy with ANTAGONISTIC, ROBIN HOOD, ASPIC, SENSELESS, and ENCUMBER all getting ticks. Thanks bridgesong for the blog.
WorsSDrove @12, I had that too.
What does it say about we solvers that so much line space in these blogs, it seems to me, is spent on exploring faults, or perceived faults, in the setting? I suppose it’s only a reflection of our shared experience when we’ve come to a clue that poses a conundrum … is it me, or is it the setter? We humans remember things with a strong emotion or thought attached. We mostly remember those moments a week ago, and the rest fade into oblivion.
Setters are a brave bunch. Good on them. I’d go nuts without them, but then, maybe I’m already nuts to engage in this enjoyable pastime, and very fortunate to share the fun with others here.
My favourite was ORNITHOID because a) I didn’t know it, b) it took me a while to solve, c) it was very satisfying when I did, d) I kicked myself because I should have known it, and e) it reminded me of a very vivid childhood memory in a spelling bee when I recited the spelling of the scientific name of the Australian platypus ORNITHORHYNCHUS ( and can still do over 60 years later.)
Very enjoyable puzzle. My favourite clue was PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE. I also liked MAZURKA and ORNITHOID (new word) for their misleading definitions. Nho MRS MOP, didn’t solve that. I wrote in dry mop and moved on, knowing it didn’t parse. And I hadn’t parsed ANON (very clever) so appreciate the explanation.
Many thanks Brummie and bridgesong.
Well said, paddymelon@25.
And I’ve always remembered the spelling of that word, too. Same school syllabus? Now I see part of the word’s root.
Mrs.Mopp (originally spelt with two Ps) was a regular character in ITMA: Tommy Handley’s Cockney charlady who would appear asking “Can I do you now, sir?”.
I’m too scientifically ignorant to know what YTTTERBIA is, but I did think the element wasn’t spelt like that. Didn’t know SENS either, but that and ORNITHOID were gettable. Googling SCANTLE will find you pictures of the Cornish roofing: made up of lots of very small tiles. I liked MAZURKA for the nicely misleading definition.
Remembered this morning I hadn’t finished the NE. Went back and got them all except SCANTLE.
Favourites included: MASCOT, ROBIN HOOD, MAZURKA, KLEE, ENCUMBER
Also not heard of CABBAGE for money
Thanks Brummie and bridgesong
(SueM48@27. Oh! Yes. Possibly same syllabus.
I have another vivid, but not so pleasant, memory of a spelling bee when i was the last person standing. The teacher asked me several times over to spell the same word to see if I’d change my mind. There’s a word for that, and it’s not ‘fun’.)
I also put KEEL in, thinking that “back to front” = reverse. I think either answer fits.
[paddymelon @30: Oh my, so close to winning and then given several more chances — in my Catholic grade school one mistake and it was to hell you went!)
Thanks for the blog , really good puzzle overall, ORNITHOID my favourite , but I love the swifts.
Thank you SC@3 , when I solved it I just thought put compound instead of element.
Thank you Gladys@28 , I knew the character and the phrase but not the show. It is used in Dad’s Army to test for possible Germans.
MRS MOP clue not my favourite, has MOP in wordplay and answer separately , not wrong but clumsy.
KLEE should have been aural wordplay but could have led to a riot.
PDM @ 25 excellent points and I do agree . Analysing a crossword we often focus on the “faults” and not all the good bits but I think that is a natural outcome for a crossword blog.
In future I will try to always give the praise before the quibbles.
I too had KEEL and was totally puzzled why the Guardian App didn’t reward me with the green tick. Spent quite a bit of time looking for typos or errors before shrugging my shoulders.
Thank goodness for this site!
I refused to write in Ytterbia at first. An elementary issue compounded by my stubbornness.
Then I remembered, from somewhere, that, if in doubt, the wordplay trumps the definition, so all was well(ish).
As a positive, a wider 225 community will now have GK enhanced with the remarkable record of a small town in Sweden.
Thanks B&B
I’m another who put KEEL not KLEE, from the parsing and checking Keel existed. I don’t know why I didn’t think of KLEE, I’ve paid to see exhibitions of his work, so doh and a DNF for me.
SCANTLE surfaced from somewhere, with an image, but we went to Cornwall most summer holidays when I was a child, or it could be reading something set there.
I loved ORNITHOID, got it early from the anagram fodder, and a penny drop moment, but I love swifts as they shred “the sky in their hooligan gangs” (Lost Spells)
Thank you to bridgesong and Brummie.
Ramen is thought of as being typical Japanese but it is actually based on Chinese lamiàn (the first vowel is a first tone and the second vowel is fourth tone).
And, as a foreign word, it is almost always written in katakana and not in kanji. The kanji do, of course, exist.
Also, the kana for ‘ra’ is followed by a long sign, so it should really be RAAMEN.
(I know from past experience that I can’t write the Chinese or the Japanese here, sorry.)
As Timon and I solve from the printed edition, we didn’t see the additional instruction. But I must first remove the mote from my own eye, having carelessly bunged in MAine instead of MAssachusets when parsing MASCOT. Thanks to KVa for pointing that out, and to everyone else for not mentioning it! And additional thanks to KeithS @ 17 for the Tom Lehrer quote. As well as the two elements mentioned in the Lehrer quote, erbium (Er) and terbium (Tb) were also discovered in the Ytterby quarry.
Thanks Brummie and bridgesong
Rather careless setting and editing, I thought. Google found several KEELs that painted, so also a valid answer. I eventually found CABBAGE as slang for US banknotes on Wiki, but even there it said “dated” (or something similar).
I saw the late correction to 17d, but it still is a poor clue. Incidentally Ytterby has the distinction of being the place which gives its name to the most elements. In addition to Ytterbium, there’s Yttrium, Terbium, and Erbium.
Tough puzzle. Lower half was easier for me.
Favourites: KLEE; ASPIC; PANORAMIC.
New for me: YTTERBIA (and I was puzzled by the definition of 17ac as noted by the bridgesong); MRS MOP also RSM=Regimental Sergeant Major for 19d; CABBAGE = slang for US banknotes; ORNITHOID; SCANTLE; and 27/14 planned obsolescence – I had not realised there is a term for this policy of which I have been a victim, especially with the short lifespan of laptop computers and mobile phones 🙁
I could not parse 5d – never heard of SENS (Japanese coins) and appreciate Martyn@8 expaining about them.
Thanks, both.
gregfromoz@1 and nicbach@16. I am Australian and I lived in SE Asia for a great part of my life. It’s true that we would (most likely) not use the English word servant for domestic help in Australia or the UK. In Indonesia the generic term is pembantu or helper which covers maid, cook, cleaner, houseboy & other indoor domestic staff but there are separate words for gardener, driver and others. In Singapore the domestic help is most often called a maid (who is usually from the Philippines, Indonesia, or Myanmar). That said, the dictionary definition for servant is ‘a person who performs duties for others, especially a person employed in a house on domestic duties or as a personal attendant’ by which it seems possible to include a wide variety of donestic staff even if our current preference is not to call them ‘servants’.
Like WordSDrove@6 I saw via google that there is a Swiss artist named Philipp Keel and it would also be a valid solution but I also think that this artist is not well-known enough to appear in a crossword here.
Fascinating stuff michelle @41 about your history. Thanks for sharing.
Surely, for anyone doing crosswords for years would realise that KLEE would have to be the right answer, a famous and known Artist, as opposed to an easy google option. Almost anything you type into google these days will have some sort relevance, but common sense must prevail, but then I did go to Art School!
Antonknee
That’s not the point. One shouldn’t have to guess what the setter “probably” meant. Both are valid answers. I wonder if KEEL was allowed for the Prize?
Its not really a guess, It does say back to front, and before Google, no one would have had Keel as an answer!
In everday usage, “back to front” means “reversed”. Brummie is using it in a more specialised sense here.
I was another Keel. And my thought was – wow! heavy metal singers make it to the guardian crosswordb no googling was required. Klee is maybe a better answer – but for a prize I think Ed. should have modified to make unambiguous.
Other than that (which I didn’t notice) and ytterbia (which did annoy but was obviously correct). I found this a great prize – just taxing enough but definitely doable.
Thanks Setter and Blogger – and all the posters above for discussion above which seems to me quintessential 15 squared
I agree with both Antonknee @43 and @45 as well as muffin@46 that Brummie is using ‘back to front’ in a particular way here. Tbh I googled ‘artist keel’ before the penny dropped and I realised that of course it should be Paul KLEE.
Tim C@42 – I could add that I have often heard my expat friends as well as other expats refer to the fact that they had/have servants in Indonesia or Singapore but the same people would not refer to people performing identical tasks in Australia or the UK as servants. I guess it is a cultural preference that most of us who have/had domestic staff no longer want to refer to them as servants – we now use ‘politer’ (or different) terms.
[Tony Santucci@32 re me@30. No, on the contrary, I had the correct spelling. The teacher was trying to shake my confidence and see how long I held out. I went to a ‘state’ school. I suppose that’s the way teachers could get at us girls because only the boys were caned. My peers at the local Catholic school suffered far worse fates, as you allude to.]
Very much enjoyed this one last week and did not find myself misled or discommoded either by YTTERBIA, having previously encountered the Swedish village and its disproportionate contribution to the atomic table or MRS MOP. I’m not sure why the conversation has gone down the servant route, though. The def is ‘daily’ which pointed me at the independent cleaner who visits a property to do the job and that is no more a servant than a plumber or a gardener. I’d expect a servant to be wholly devoted to the service of one property/family and generally accommodated on site. But that’s just my take.
Thanks Brummie and bridgesong
Thanks to Brummie for an enjoyable puzzle and Bridgesong for his blog.
I’ve often defended setters for ‘iffy’ clues and applaud PDM@25 for doing likewise. If youve ever tried compiling even one grid, you will realise how hard it is to get the right balance of solvability. That said, inaccuracies in facts (YTTERBIA) do need to be called out. My particular bugbear is the common confusion between “Silicon” (the element) and “Silicone” a huge range of compounds comparable to hydrocarbons. No one would want a siicon implant and silicone chips just dont work in computers.
[Roz@34. Oh dear, now I’ll have to live up to your example. 🙂 ]
As usual, I left the puzzle open all week, then refreshed today, for the “Check all” button to appear – it did, along with the “Special instructions…” Unusual.
Hit the “Check all” button and my entry for 21a had disappeared. Also unusual. I’d entered KEEL, having found Philipp’s Wikipedia page, as WordSDrove@12.
But of course it has to be Paul (here’s a selfie:) KLEE (the likeness is uncanny) – more famous by far.
I’d fallen into Brummie’s trap, taking “back to front” as reversed, rather than “with its back letter moved to the front” – more devious by far.
All these modern elements end in -um, to look like the Latin ones: Ferrum, Stannum, Argentum, Aurum, Platinum – singular neuter nouns.
I took 17d to be the plural of YTTERBIUM and assumed the clue was missing an “s” after “Element”.
Enjoyable puzzle. My favourites were MAZURKA, ORNITHOID and PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE.
YTTERBIA was naughty, though it didn’t cause me much trouble – although I first thought I had ytterbium as a write-in until I realised it didn’t fit [apart from the four elements named after the village of Ytterby there is also holmium, named after Stockholm, making Sweden the country with most elements. The UK has only strontium, named after Strontian in Scotland].
Would Kissinger have said UDDER rather than ‘uzzer’?
I agree with PostMark @50 that ‘daily’ is fine as a def for MRS MOP – there’s no implication in either expression of being a servant rather than a contractor.
Thanks to S&B
Yesterday – https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/09/corrections-and-clarifications:
‘A cryptic crossword clue asked for “Element one put into replacement battery (8)”. However, the answer we were looking for, ytterbia, is a compound of the element ytterbium, one of four elements named after the Swedish town where they were discovered, Ytterby (No 29,296, 3 February, Journal, p12).’
[Still think it should be anagrammed and renamed BettyRium after Betty Rubble]
Timon@51. I really enjoy the discussions here about science from members of our 15sq community who are well-qualified to comment. And yes, a mistake is a mistake.
I was tickled to see PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE, which I learned from my father who didn’t have much of an education, and was something he taught me about the incandescent lightbulb. Now you can get LED ‘torches’ with an irreplaceable battery. New torch, new battery.
Sorry to “disterbya” all further, but like Frankie G, I did wonder whether ELEMENTS might work.
(As long as the plural is -ia rather than-iums)
Thanks Brummie and bridgesong. I was completely beaten by SCANTLE, which makes me cross at myself because the answer was right there in front of me all the time! Happy to learn of the correction for ytterbium, of which there can only be one.
Lots to like in this puzzle. I was another with LEEK, having found Phiipp on Google. As that was obscure I wondered about the vocal artist Howard Keel, who is or was very well known. MGM once mistakenly gave his birth name as “Harold Leek”. Now that would have been obscure. I thought of Klee but had forgotten the other meaning of “back to front”. I have a print of his “Senecio” that I always think of as “Isaiah” because it’ picture of a face in which one eye’s ‘igher than the other.
Thanks to Brummie and bridgesong
[My son tells me that 4 more elements (scandium, holmium, thulium, and gadolinium) were also first isolated from rocks found in the same quarry.]
Anna@38 (on ramen) – and ramen shops in Japan nearly always have the spelling in katakana on their signs because it is an imported foreign word. I only really thought about this when I saw one with hiragana characters and I suddenly realised it looked all wrong! This led to a nice discussion with my host, a big ramen fan, about the origin of the word and the dish.
Wellcidered @58 and Frankie G @54, the name of an element is a mass noun, not a count noun. You can have 3 atoms of ytterbium but not 3 ytterbiums. You can have three isotopes of ytterbium, but again these are not 3 ytterbiums. So, cunning but there can be no such thing as ytterbia as a plural – even putting aside the argument about using Latin plural forms for words invented to look like Latin nouns. [Total aside – I am sure that school syllabuses changed to specifications because no-one could agree on the correct plural. I would wince on hearing “syllabi” because it is not a second declension noun]
I enjoyed this puzzle, finding it both tricky in places and entertaining. Fortunately, I started it when the correction to the YTTERBIA clue had already appeared (although it was called ‘Special instructions’ rather than a correction!). I most liked PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE and MRS MOP.
Thanks to Brummie and bridgesong.
Shanne@37 – I love swifts, too – 🙂 – Thanks for this: ‘
Spin World Spin!
Swifts are here again
Spin World Spin!
Shredding the sky in their hooligan gangs
Spin World Spin!
Those handbrake turners,
those wheelie pullers
Gung-ho joy bringers,
those spring harbingers
Those havoc-wreakers,
those thrill seekers
Those whirling, skirling rooftop screechers
Those drifting, gliding swifts are here again’
And Thanks B&B
Like Bridgesong and others, I enjoyed the puzzle overall, especially the anagrams. The big anagram for PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE took me a while, juggling likely letter positions. I worked out, then google-checked MAZURKA, SCANTLE and KEEL (alternative valid solution), but I should have remembered KLEE. I didn’t like the SENS component of 5d, SEN being the plural, but the fit was obvious. Being a chemist, at first I tried to fit YTTERBIUM, but had to settle for the wrong answer, YTTERBIA, as it fitted the 8 letters in the definition. QANON without the Q was clever.
Groan and Ha Ha to Wellcidered@58, but no, an element is a singular name. I suppose you could describe its seven isotopes as seven different YTTERBIUMS, but no-one ever does this. YTTERBIA is the oxide, like ALUMINA, THORIA, and many others.
OED: Scantle – a gauge for measuring slates 1850
The old paper versions are sometimes best!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/T3sr8bXhJpcAfCk89
Jack @ 62
Yes, that’s right. Though, as the word is Chinese, there is a much greater chance of the kanji (well, hanzi, really!) being used. I was going to write the kanji but the system won’t let me.
Vast numbers of the so-called na adjectives are really Chinese nouns and, as far as I am aware, they are nearly all written in Kanji. (Although I’ve seen kirei written in kanji and hiragana.)
Thanks for commenting on my comment, too.
Can I just say what a high class discussion this puzzle has provoked? Not just the erudition about the elements, but also the subtleties of Japanese orthography (see the contributions from Anna @38 and Jack @62), culminating in what I think is an extract from a wonderful Robert Macfarlane poem in FrankieG’s post @64.
bridgesong @ 68
Thanks!
The blog was good too.
And without the blog, there wouldn’t be any discussion 🙂
Good to see Anna in the blog but way beyond me, I know RAMEN from Murakami , in translation of course .
Nice idea of elementS from a few people but does not really work, only one element called Ytterbium, even isotopes do not matter. An element is defined solely by the proton number.
Why was the clue corrected to “Compound of element” rather than just “Compound”?
Just finished the printed version before the paper went into the recycling as I realised that we had overlooked it last week. When I came across 17D I thought “that will upset the geeks*”. I was not wrong.
FWIW I’m in the KLEE camp as he was famous enough not to need an internet search.
(* family term for 225 contributors- no offence – sorry!)
In defence of Brummie over the clue for the (relatively) well-known Paul KLEE, I suspect he was complete unaware (as I was) that there was a (much more obscure) artist called Keel, and therefore didn’t realise that there was any ambiguity.
Gervase @72
He could have Googled (as I did!)
bridgesong @58 it is the first verse of a poem entitled Swift by Robert Macfarlane – it’s from Lost Spells, but it’s also sung on the Spell Songs album by Rachel Newton here.
Thanks. Very enjoyable solve – apart from YTTERBIA. And there are at least three artists by the name of KEEL, not all of them obscure.
OK, I knew YTTERBIA as the oxide of the element YTTERBIUM. It is always fair to point out inaccurate definitions, but this clue could still be solved logically, possibly using online tools if you didn’t know YTTERBIA. It comes up from I+BATTERY with Anagram Solver. _T_E_B_A gives YTTERBIA with Crossword Solver but not with Merriam-Webster. The word YTTERBIA for the oxide is confirmed by Wikipedia.
I hate time-waster clues which cannot be worked out logically, and which have solutions which are such obscure words or downright unreasonable usages (usually in Chambers) that they do not show up with online tools. If you don’t already know the obscure word or usage, then you can waste a lot of time before giving up in frustration. Likewise, non-English words and phrases not in common usage often need a subtle language flag for the same reason unless, say, the presence of (E)X or D(E) shows up from a crosser clue.
muffin @73: Did you Google because you were ignorant of the celebrated KLEE, or just to catch Brummie out? 🙂
Gervase @77
No, I thought the answer was KEEL, so I Googled to check that a painter of that name existed. I found 2 or 3, as I remember. KLEE occurred to me rather later.
That’s the trouble with google, imagine if you were to reverse Andy Warhol’s name would you find an Artist?
19d – An RSM, Regimental Sergeant Major, is a Warrant Officer, holding (in the British Army) the King’s Warrant and so holds an office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_officer_(United_Kingdom)
I’ve heard of Titterstone Clee and Brown Clee, but not of Paul Klee. KEEL was obviously a solution to the clue provided. I don’t often solve a Prize, so I’m having this one!
Anna@38 & Jack@62. I was so used to the kana version of ramen that it took me ages to realize that the kanji version also means ramen and is not the name of the shop. You probably know this, but the ramen museum in Yokohama is worth a visit.
[‘Monkey @81
I have actually been up Titterstone Clee. After we went to the Kremlin pub, so-called because the next highest ground east was in Russia.]
Regarding the KLEE vs KEEL issue, I don’t understand why some commenters are having such a hard time accepting that there are two valid solutions. KEEL fits the grid just as well as KLEE does, and it also fits the clue just as well. If I was a struggling artist named Keel of whom nobody had ever heard and I tried to campaign for my own name as a correct answer, that would obviously be silly. But in this case we’re talking about established artists. I have not previously encountered a rule that says “when in doubt, go with the more famous answer”. This is just one of those things that happens from time to time, when a second valid solution unexpectedly presents itself. Really not anything to argue about!
On another note, as an American I was utterly defeated by MRS MOP. You learn something new every day…
Thanks Brummie and Bridgesong!
A near miss for us, as we put our money on that famous Swiss artist Philipp Keel. Of course we had never heard of him, but a search revealed the artist and we thought, yes that’ll do. Had we thought of the Klee option no search would have been required
Out of interest I did look for artists named Lohraw, finding the less well known Ynda Lohraw. Highlights the dangers of relying on a search engine to confirm your ideas!
But an enjoyable solve, and that’s what counts, isn’t it?
Many thanks to Brummie and Bridgesong
Too late to comment, but I did want to thank Shanne@37 and FrankieG@64 for the Robert Macfarlane poem. As bridgesong notes @68, his Lost Spells (and Lost Words) are wonderful books. Written for children, they appeal to me as I drift into my second childhood.
Re the KLEE/KEEL debate, I don’t think setters should be obliged to google every clue/answer in search of obscure alternative solutions. The Ynda Lohwar example cited by GingerTom@85 is on point.
My guess is that most solvers will have heard of Paul Klee, and most solvers will be unfamiliar with Philipp Keel. Also, any solver with enough fine arts knowledge to have heard of Philipp Klee would also know Paul Klee, and would think of him first. It would be perverse to think that the setter would be thinking of Keel instead of Klee when devising the clue.
Agreed, and as I mentioned above, before google existed nobody would have come up with Keel as a possible answer as they are not a well known artist at all, and I think you will find it was my point re Andy Warhol @79, I just hoped people would google it to realise my point, I was just having fun!
Haven’t got time to read all the comments, unfortunately. I’ll just make my remarks and apologise if I’ve duplicated anything or if anything I’ve regarded as a mistake has been explained.
9ac, SYNOD: I think the second bracket needs to come at the end of the word ‘gathering’. The whole thing is reversed.
21ac, KLEE: I read “back to front” as just meaning ‘reversed’ and wrote KEEL, which seems to work ok, even if he’s not as famous as KLEE.
3dn, RED CABBAGE: didn’t know CABBAGE as slang for banknotes, but got it from the def and confirmed.
5dn, SENSELESS: didn’t know SENS, so couldn’t parse this. Biffed it anyway.
25dn, ORNITHOID: v. misleading def, causing difficulty solving, even having the anagram fodder, but the penny finally dropped, to some relief!
Antonknee@88, my apologies for mis-attributing your comment re Ydna Lohraw. You may have been just having fun, but you made a very good point in the process.
I’m not sure the sen coin (Japan or Malaysia) would add an s for plural. I parsed 5d SENSELESS where the second S indicated a possessive instead, from ‘of oriental coins’.
CeeBee @ 91: I’m not saying you’re wrong, but Chambers does suggest that SENS is an acceptable plural for either of the coins.
Thanks bridgesong for blog and various for discussion, especially and remarkably muffin@83 – I always wondered why the Kremlin was signposted on the road through Clee Hill. Enjoyed this one a lot, thanks Brummie.
Phi had already done the LEEK KLEE trick, way back in 2011, when clues weren’t included in the blogs
https://www.fifteensquared.net/2011/02/11/independent-7589phi/
’23a KLEE — here ‘back to front’ doesn’t mean ‘reversed’: the last letter (of leek) is put to the front — Klee’
Various other artists appeared in a themed puzzle.