Guardian Saturday Prize Crossword 29,386 by Brendan (18 May 2024)

69 comments on “Guardian Saturday Prize Crossword 29,386 by Brendan (18 May 2024)”

1. ATOM
   It seems ATOM is etymologically derived from Greek ‘atomos’ meaning ‘indivisible’.
   As an ATOM is divisible…

   Thanks Brendan and mc_rapper67 for the excellent puzzle and superb blog respectively.

2. I loved this. Just as our blogger said of his blog, my solution was full of mistakes too, yet perfectly correct.

   The reason ATOM is “etymologically incorrect” is explained thus in Wiktionary:

   From Middle English attome, from Middle French athome, from Latin atomus (“smallest particle”), from Ancient Greek ἄτομος (átomos, “indivisible”), from ἀ- (a-, “not”) +‎ τέμνω (témnō, “I cut”). Atoms are so named because historically the notion was that they were indivisible, given that chemically they are indeed so; the splitting of atoms awaited a later era of science and technology, and nonchemical means.

   Thanks both.

3. Found this difficult and had several in the SE and a couple in the NW I didn’t get and had to wait till now to reveal the answers.

   Didn’t spot the theme – too busy trying to get the rest of the answers.

   Liked: REBURIED, IRRATIONAL, PROOFREADS

   Thanks Brendan and mc_rapper67 (needed your help parsing a few)

4. I noticed that you have BLUNDER for 4D., as I did. But the Grauniad has BLANDER. Maybe this is just in line with the theme!

5. ERASER
   Should the whole clue be underlined as the def?

   MISSPELL
   The clue alludes to ‘spelling out’ (delivering) a word wrongly.
   That’s what the blog says, I guess.

6. KVa@1 – I read ‘atom’ as you did. Reminded me on an old clue: HIJKLMNO (5) :-).

   As ever, Brendan is wonderful; great blog.

7. I didn’t get ATOM or STUPIDLY, so thanks for that. I failed to spot the theme as usual. After a slow start they started coming thick and fast and then dried up.
   Cheers All

8. I also found this difficult at first, and it took a few sittings to get through it all.

   Had not heard of ANONYMS* or LITERAL in that sense, nor could I understand ATOM – thank you KVa@1 and others. HAMLET is one of the few major Shakespeare plays I have never seen. I think I had better see it, if for no other reason than it pops up so often in crosswords.

   I really liked several clues, starting with my NHO ANONYMS and including FREUDIAN, MOLEST, SINGULARLY and PYTHAGORAS (a great anagram).

   To top it off, it was a very entertaining blog.

   Thanks Brendan and mc_rapper67

   *PS Apple has NHO ANONYMS either – it is showing on my screen as a spelling error

9. Thank you mc_rapper67. ATOM was my last to parse. Liked it a lot, as I did the triple TRIP.
   Not real keen on DEFACE which I parsed as you did. It’s a bit fuzzy I felt, we have A to E, but no B, and a couple of E’s.
   BECAUSE I spent way too long trying wordplay involving an anagram of DANDIES (err), or D(and)D IES, the clue was my LOI after having all the crossers.

   FREUDIAN my fav, for the surface, wordplay, definition, and humour in the context of ‘slips’.

10. Can anyone see how 4d can be BLANDER (which the Guardian website says it is) rather than the clearly clued BLUNDER?

11. gladys@10. I had BLUNDER. As for BLANDER, I like the interpretation of houstontony@4

12. An impressive feat of setting with every clue thematic. Right up my alley, used to work as a proof reader. Today I’m flat out correcting my own mistakes.

    Well-spotted Houstontony @4. I don’t often ”reveal all” after the Prize end-by date. Was that some type-setter having a little joke? A bit of Fordism in Fleet Street? (or wherever the Guardian’s printed). How else would you justify ”blander” instead of BLUNDER? It doesn’t fit the wordplay.

    Speaking of spotting, it was also my job to ”spot the negs” for a student newspaper, in the days when photographs were taken of the paste-up of printed type-set columns. You had a little paintbrush and some pinkish liquid, which functioned a bit like today’s ”white-out”. But it was only meant to clean the negatives up. Of course they were in reverse image, and the page I was checking was the back cover, with a huge headline, totally misspelt, and it had gone through several stages of proof-reading already. Confirmation bias?

13. An ingenious theme and some unusual clues. ANONYMS and that meaning of literal/LITTORAL were new to me: couldn’t see how A TO M or DEFACE worked apart from the D E F grades: didn’t see the full subtlety of HAMLET. Favourite MISCUE.

14. As usual, I expect to be informed of any unintentional errors, but I wonder if anyone will spot my deliberate mistake.

15. Oh, and I don’t know anything about the BLANDER BLUNDER.
    I seem to remember an old clue: Embarassing kind of mistake (8) which was spoilt by a proof-reader.

16. 😀
    Was the solution ELLIPSIS?
    We have an assignment on hand to find that deliberate mistake.
    (‘succeeded after’?)

    SINGULARLY
    https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/data-is-or-data-are/#:~:text=The%20word%20data%20can%20be,used%20as%20a%20plural%20noun.
    A passage from this:
    In general usage, data is treated as both a singular and a plural word. When data is used as a mass noun (a noun that can’t be counted, like sand) to mean “information,” it typically uses a singular verb.

    For example:

    Polling data is harder to come by in the rural areas of the country.
    Medical data shows that the disease is more common in warmer climates.
    When data is used as a count noun (a noun that can be counted, like car) to mean “facts” or “pieces of information,” it is typically used with a plural verb.

17. ELLIPSIS doesn’t seem to fit. MISPRINT?

    The ‘succeeded after’ fits in the surface. I was wrong.

18. Brendan/Brian @14. A challenge to us to find all sorts of ”mistakes” that you may have not intended, and about which we may be quite mistaken. 🙂

19. 😀

20. KVa@19. Believe me, I wasn’t referring to your elliptical hypothesis, as creative as it was. It’s doing my head in going back over the clues. Brendan/Brian must have a pretty good trick in mind if he’s drawing our attention to it. I’ve only thought of little things like beaus/beaux, but they’re variants. My proof reading experience isn’t doing me any good, and it may be something else entirely. I’m now going ”deep”, row 15, and almost ‘dystopian”, column 15. 🙂

21. Thanks for a great blog, great set of clues , SCRABBLE was a very neat cryptic definition , something I am not usually fond of. SINGULARLY is brilliant, my students do not like me using datum or saying “these data” . REBURIED , very clever use of grave.
    Democritus probably the first to use atomos in the sense of uncuttable, the Greeks ahead of their time thinking of atoms as fundamental. Most people now think that leptons and quarks are fundamental, do they never learn ?

22. Surrely the answer @ 15 is MISSPELT ?

23. For 17Ac , et al. should only have a full stop when citing 4 or more authors .
    I do not know if this is true but I have been told this many times when writing papers.

24. All the blunders, typos and trips IS/ARE doing my head in. Perhaps the bit that Brendan aka Brian Greer is referring to @14 is that “I knew him well” is a famous misquote from Hamlet.

    All good fun. Sadly I missed out on my grades shoving DENUDE in and failing to check.

25. Thanks Brendan and mc_rapper67
    Mostly very enjoyable, but the definition for ATOM irritated me. Brendan is using “etymologically” incorrectly. It refers to the origin of the word, and there is no doubt that it derives from the Greek “atomos” or “indivisible”. The fact that this it is now known that atoms aren’t indivisble doesn’t affect the derivation.

26. Oh dear – a DNF for me with several not entered. Long time since l have not completed the Prize. Brendan just too darn smart for me and can see it all now thanks to your wonderful parsing mc_rapper67, so thanks for that. Very much a learning experience for me. Thanks Brendan

27. Very enjoyable as always with Brendan who made a theme that could have been rather dry great fun. Impossible not to spot it as the solve progressed. And for the compiler to acknowledge a deliberate mistake is just brilliant – no-one has any grounds for complaint today as any error was probably intentional.

    Thanks Brendan and mc for the usual delightful blog

28. Tough puzzle. Gave up on 2d.

    Failed 18d as I bunged in misapply without being able to parse it, and I could not parse 19d or 22d.

    I am with several others who solved 4d as BLUNDER and I cannot see how BLANDER works – that must be an error on the part of the Guardian.

    Favourite: PYTHAGORAS.

    New for me: BUR = seed case (for 16d)

    Thanks, both.

29. Superb -and literally an extensive verbal education. (Many new definitions for this English speaker.)
    My head is in a spin though: A puzzle in the Grauniad about errors, seemingly containing no errors (other than on the website checker). Then a teaser from Brendan about a deliberate error.
    Time for a real coffee ;0)
    Many thanks to Brendan and mcr.

30. ANONYMS
    et al.
    https://www.scribendi.com/academy/articles/how_to_use_et_al.en.html
    As Roz doesn’t click on any link, an excerpt from this article in the context of her post@23
    Where Should I Put the Period?
    The period in et al. should go at the end of “al” because “al” is an abbreviation for “alia,” meaning “others.”
    There is no period after “et” because “et” isn’t an abbreviation. It’s a full word in Latin, meaning “and.”
    Remember, “et al.” is the only correct way to type this phrase.

    paddymelon@20
    No issues whatsoever!

31. Muffin@25
    Perhaps this is Brendan’s deliberate mistake. He knows that the derivation of atom from ‘atomos’ is correct and is teasing us.
    A great puzzle
    Thanks Brendan and mcr

32. Roz@22
    I can remember not being happy with MISSPELL at the time – but I cannot remember why.

33. I enjoyed this, not a write in with several clues that took wandering away and coming back to see the answer – SCRABBLE was one, and amused me, BECAUSE made sense when looked at the right way.

    Thank you to Brendan and mc_rapper67

34. I failed on A TO M, which is a pity because it’s actually a clever clue and I just couldn’t see it. Curses!

    And I’d forgotten that a literal is a mistake and just bunged in LITTORAL from the definition and crossers.

    Favourite bit was ‘(not well)’ in the HAMLET clue!

    Thanks to Brendan and mc.

35. Wellcidered @32 I was referring to the clue @15 Embarassing has R twice normally.

36. A wonderful puzzle by one of my favourite setters with some encouraging write-ins for starters and some knotty problems before completion. Loved the theme, the typically ingenious misdirections in the clues, and the cleverness of SCRABBLE, SINGULARLY and LITTORAL.
    5D reminded me of my favourite definition of a Freudian slip: “Confusing one word with a mother”.
    Thanks to both Brendan and mc for all of the pleasure, stimulation and entertainment.

37. Well, that was simply splendid. At first I thought it was just going to be a mini-theme with proofreading references, but then it spread out to cover the whole gamut of errors and blunders! I particularly liked SINGULARLY (I’ve found that referring to ‘these datums’ manages to irritate just about everybody), ATOM, ANONYMS and many others. My last in was STUPIDLY, because I just couldn’t see that ‘words’ was being used as a verb. Finally it clicked. Thanks to both setter and blogger for wording things so well..

38. KVa@ 30 thanks for being thoughtful. I do not really know anything about this, I leave it to the people who type up , they are the experts, I just write by hand. They always tell me off If I cite two or three names plus et al.

39. I’m just waiting for Brendan to explain himself. 😉

40. Singularly wonderful, thanks Brendan and mc_rapper67

41. A bit dificult but enjoyible. I got a bit stuck in the NW, not knowing about the literal error.

    I particularly liked EDYTORS, SCRABLE, PITHAGORAS, and BECOSE.

    Thanks Brendan for the fun, and mcr for the explanations.

42. Roz @23; is this helpful?

    If a source has one to three authors, all of them must be written in the in-text citation. If there are four or more authors, you can instead write out only the first author’s name and then use et al.

43. Thanks, all, Brendan, mc_rapper and all the commenters.

44. @39 Tim C….. Me too, come on Brendan spill the beanz!

    Definitely not Blander, great puzzle, thanks to Brian and the MC.

45. Robi @42 , thank you, that sounds right. I am often told this but I refuse to listen , my own fault. I always write out names until the first female author and then add et al. which is usually wrong.

46. Last weekend was a little busier than most. I saw the nice “friendly” grid and thought “Thanks Guardian, I shan’t bother this week. ” A shame because I like Brendan’s puzzles, but there we are.

47. Can anyone see something in the perimeter? ‘Maybe if I had……’

48. My deliberate mistake was defining Pythagoras as a mathematician. I will admit this is controversial but the history of mathematics is as much, arguably more, riddled with myth, speculation based on inadequate documentation, and ideologically-inspired falsification as any other history. To those interested in learning more, I highly recommend the entry on Pythagoras in the online Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

49. Roz@22 et al.
    I follow your comments with interest but I’m afraid you’ve lost me here. EDITORS@15 is clearly indicated by the wordplay and isn’t misspelt. MISSPELL@18 is in the present tense as is the wordplay. I can’t see any reference in wordplay or answers to EMBAR(R)ASSING. Is there a joke that I’m missing through being too literal?

50. Sorry Pino @49 I am channelling my inner Eric Morecambe today .
    Brendan @ COMMENT 15 has a clue- Embarassing kind of mistake (8) .
    I suggested misspelt because of the single r in embarassing, I suppose it could be a (deliberate) MISPRINT as well.

51. and thanks to mc_rapper67 for great review — loved the intro

52. I don’t think that ATOM is etymologically incorrect at all. Its derivation is completely coherent.

    As the smallest possible unit of uranium, say, it can’t be reduced further. Yes, it can be split into strontium and iodine perhaps, but they are no longer uranium.

    Thanks to all.

53. Sorry, Muffin had already made my first point.
    My second would assert that the question as to whether the word ATOM is semantically correct is open to debate.

54. Etu I will not debate your first point but the idea now that atoms are indivisible is very wrong .
    It is not a question of elements, any atom can be broken down into a nucleus and free electrons, the plasma at the core of a star has no atoms. The nucleus itself can be broken down into protons and neutrons, they both contain quarks, the quarks and electons probably contain dwarfons …..

55. Hi Roz,

    I – from my own GK – accept fully all the particle physics facts that you state.

    However, your assertion that it is “not a question of elements” is, from a general, semantic perspective rather than a scientific one, I think, actually an opinion, which leaves that debate open.

    But we digress 🙂

56. Brilliant as usual from Brendan. Many ticks, the best of which were 20a SCRABBLE (amusing cryptic definition), 1d MISHEARD (clip nicely hidden), 5d FREUDIAN (great surface) 7d HAMLET (for the “not well”) and 24d, the TRIPle definition.

    Thanks Brendan and mc for the great puzzle and blog.

    I love lenmaster@36’s definition of Freudian slip, which somehow reminds me of the new classical piano trio – Anne-Sophie Mutter, violin, Yo-Yo Ma, cello and Emmanuel Ax, piano. They call themselves the Lizzie Borden Trio. (My coat is on.)

57. …we digress from the fact that many people found this to be an excellent puzzle – as did I.

    Hats off too to the setter for dropping by.

    Thanks again to everyone.

58. Roz@50
    Thanks.

59. Oh! It’s too late to say it now, of course, but Brendan/Brian’s explanation of his deliberate mistake @48 is exactly what I was going to say when he first posed the question@14. Answer: Pythagoras wasn’t a mathematician. I didn’t have the confidence to say so then, or back it up here in such eminent company, without a solid background in either philosophy or maths. I don’t feel quite so silly now. People can challenge Brendan, not me. 🙂

60. PYTHAGORAS ? that was a surprise but I now see the point Brendan is making and well done PDM @59 .
    Did some checking in the classic single volume text by Boyer and Merzbach. They emphasise that no texts survive and the almost complete lack of detail about Pythagoras himself .

61. Yes, Roz@60. That’s what I found. Most of what was written about Pythagoras post-dated him by hundreds of years.
    And apparently the theorems were a lot older than from Pythagoras’ time. He was supposed to have lived lived from ca. 570 to ca. 490 BCE.

    According to a UCLA site, The Pythagorean theorem was first known in ancient Babylon and Egypt (beginning about 1900 B.C.). The relationship was shown on a 4000 year old Babylonian tablet now known as Plimpton 322. Pythagaros got around though.

62. 22a in the absence of crossers FIDDLE seems to be a viable answer DD in FILE. “Fiddle” as you might “the books”.

63. [PDM@61 B + M say the same as you , the triangle theorem is Babylonian. I know Plimpton 322 very well , there are many others. It is a triumph of older technology , the clay tablets have survived , the Greek papyrus scrolls have not. All we have is copies of copies of …. Often just a copy of a commentary on the original work . ]

64. in case anyone is still around, thanks to Paddymelon and Roz for the references.
    A serious point — shouldn’t we stop lying to schoolchildren?

65. Thanks for all the comments and feedback – much appreciated as usual…especially Brian/Brendan for popping in several times to tease us with your extra ‘mistake’.

    I should have mentioned that I would be out all day golfing and barbecuing, but it seems that any quibbles and queries have been dealt with by the usual 15×15 communal efforts…thanks for covering for me!

    Some educational side chats, inter alia, on the etymology of atoms, the correct use of ‘et al.’, and the Pythagorean maths myth…

66. I had BEDAUB instead of DEFACE (U was for Unclassified when I was at school), which meant I also missed REBURIED.

    This was such an enjoyable crossword, favourite clue was ATOM.

67. One question from a newbie: where is the blog?

68. Mickey @67 the blog is simply this page i.e. the preamable at the top beginning:

    “Advance warning – this week’s blog is full of mistakes…but don’t blame me!…”

    and then the explanations of the clues.

69. Thanks I was looking for a long diatribe!!

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