Independent 11,769 by Serpent

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Are Saturday puzzles, or Serpent puzzles, getting harder?

It’s probably just me getting slower.
This one took me a long time.
But I never felt like I was completely stuck during the solve.
For instance I took ages on 3d and was ultimstely pleased to solve this from the wordplay, rather than the def.
Homophone curse: 18a. I saw the answer from the def & crossers but it wasn’t till I read it out loud did the clue’s wordplay strike me.

Serpent taking liberties 15a:  A shoot sprouts, so when it is sprouted is it a Shot?
Another liberty but a beautiful one. 21a: “generation of map” = Chartage.  Makes this my favourite clue.
Favourite, tied, with British Nudists in Dustbins at 14a

Help needed: 10a This clue implies singers are known as “Rats” , or vice versa – is that true?

Question on 23a :  There is a “T” too many in the anagram fodder unless I’m missing something?

Missing wordplay: 24d  Help!  I cannot see how this clue works at all

Across
1 TRUMPED Broken wind instrument finally replaced by daughter (7)
TRUMPET (wind instrument) replace final T by D[aughter]
5 DEMOTE Move down and remove bad marks? (6)
DE-MOTE (remove bad marks)
8 RIND Tip of nose surrounded by clear skin (4)
N[ose] inside RID (clear)
9 SUSPENSION Delay payment to people no longer working in South America? (10)
S US (South America) PENSION (payment to people no longer working)
10 STARLIKE Backing singers admire characteristic of famous diva? (8)
RATS< (singers?, backing) LIKE (admire) I have never heard of singers referred to as “rats”.
Edit: singers as in informers.  Thanks KVa @ comment #1
11 DERIDE Laugh at revolutionary socialist vision falling short (6)
RED< (socialist, revolutionary) IDE[a] (vision, short)
12 DELPHI Ancient city – one having new area with restricted parking (6)
P[arking] in DELHI (a city with a “New” version)
14 DUSTBINS British nudists surprisingly refuse to go here (8)
(B[ritish] NUDISTS)* AInd: surprisingly.  Top Clue
15 SPROUTED Shot went quickly round short course (8)
SPED (went quickly) ROUT[e] (course, short).  A shoot sprouts.  Is it a shot when sprouted?
18 OPENLY Seoul reportedly hosts games in public (6)
ONLY (“sole” sounds like “Seoul”) around PE (games)
20 MYSTIC Visionary king spared in author’s criticism (6)
MY (author, self-referential) STIC[k] (criticism, King “spared”)
21 CARTHAGE Hotel moved during generation of map for old city (8)
CHARTAGE (generation of map (!) ) with H shifted.  Top clue
23 DEFAULTING Non-payment of fine beginning to get adult in trouble (10)
(F[ine] GE[t] ADULT IN)* AInd: trouble. This is the only way I can make the correct anagram fodder
Edit: (FINE G[et] ADULT)*  is the correct anagram fodder.  Thanks KVa @ comment #2
25 NOTE A, B, C, D, F or G? (4)
NOT E.  Notes in musical scale without the E. &Lit (I think)
26 ATTEST Provide evidence for visiting Lord’s perhaps (6)
AT TEST (Lord’s, the cricket venue)
27 END-USER Abrupt rudeness upset client (3-4)
(RUDENES[s])* AInd: upset.
Down
1 THISTLE National symbol incorporating hearts and spades separately in heading (7)
H[earts] and S[pades] in TITLE (heading)
2 UNDER Subject to series of profound errors (5)
Hidden in profoUND ERrors
3 PESSIMISTIC Pities suspect caught embracing girl that’s upset and gloomy (11)
MISS< (girl, upset) inside (embracing/embraced by) PE_ISTIC from (PITIES)* AInd: suspect, C[aught].
4 DESCEND Drop key objective introduced by Democrat (7)
D[emocrat] ESC (key) END (objective)
5 DIE Regularly advised to stop working (3)
Regularly in aDvIsEd
6 MISERABLE Vile male has the power to control monarch no longer (9)
M[ale] IS ABLE (has the power) around (control[ling]) ER (monarch, no longer)
7 TRODDEN Trampled rodent running around middle of landing (7)
(RODENT)* AInd: running, around D [lan]D[ing]
11 DISCOURAGED Put off by night club saying you are old (11)
DISCO (night club) U R (“you are” homophone HInd: saying) AGED (old)
13 PROSTRATE Job estimate includes start of renting flat out (9)
POST RATE (job, estimate) around R[enting]
Edit: Wordplay corrected.  Thanks AP @ comment #14
16 PAYMENT Penthouses may supply money for Bill (7)
PENT around (houses) (MAY)* AInd: supply. Sneaky word split. Last one in.
17 DECLINE Policy behind last month’s worsening performance (7)
LINE (policy), after DEC (last month (of the year))
19 LIGHTER Less serious match? (7)
Double Def.
22 HANDS They work and work around the clock (5)
Double Def.
24 LET Allow event generating more output from the server (3)
!! Completely stumped on wordplay.
Edit: This refers to tennis! Thanks KVa @ comment #1 

 

24 comments on “Independent 11,769 by Serpent”

  1. STARLIKE
    singers=RATS in the sense of informers
    LET
    The reference is to Tennis, I think. The server has to serve again-an event generating more
    output from the server.

  2. DEFAULTING
    (FINE G ADULT)*

    Until I read the blog I didn’t realise that there was an extra T
    and considered F GET ADULT IN as the anagram fodder. 🙂

    Thanks SERPENT and beermagnet!

  3. SPROUTED
    Just noticed your question. Is the ‘shot’ not a past tense verb in the cryptic reading?

  4. Parsed RATS, LET & DEFAULTING as KVa. No issue with ‘sprout’ = ‘shoot’ both as verbs with past tense needed for 15a (I imagine that is also KVa’s comment @3).
    Thought SUSPENSION & DUSTBINS were my favourites in another excellent Serpent outing. Also enjoyed the sneakiness in PAYMENT. Didn’t spot the usual nina so leave that to others (if there is one).

  5. Not sure about the ‘mote’ part of DEMOTE at 5A, surely it’s just one speck of dust, not marks? Otherwise excellent and clear clueing, so thanks Serpent and Beermagnet.

  6. Thanks KVa for putting me straight on all counts.

    I was so misled by the surface reading thought RATS was being equated with backing singers, then even after I realised backing was the wordplay reversal indicator I couldn’t shake the sense of vocalists for singers.

    LET: Never thought of the tennis sense. All the main words in the clue, Server, Output, Event, and Generating, are computer terms and that fooled me totally.

    Sprouted: I just wondered if people thought this chain of connections a step too far for a definition.
    From Shot (used as past tense verb in the clue’s surface reading). Take it to the infinitive verb, Shoot. Get a synonym for this: Sprout. Take that to the past tense. Sprouted.
    I had a smile when I got it but it felt convoluted.

    Tatrasman: I have no problem with motes in 5a
    The answer is asking for the infinitive form of the putative verb de-mote.

  7. Many thanks to beermagnet for an excellent blog and to KVa for clarifying a couple of parsings. As Hovis suspected, there is something extra – something that links certain answers.

  8. I had similar misgivings to Tatrasman about DEMOTE at first then, after some thought, decided it was fine as beermagnet explains. A bit like “delouse” for removing lice. Before the answer became clear, I was working on DE being the ‘bad marks’ and this failed to get anywhere.

  9. Serpent: there is something extra – something that links certain answers.
    I have outsourced this job to FrankieG!

  11. Ah! I see the down answers link with the word “down” as in THISTLE DOWN, DOWN UNDER, DIE DOWN, DOWN TRODDEN etc with other entries equating to “down”, PESSIMISTIC, DESCEND, MISERABLE etc. Is there anything else?

  12. A lovely, quite tricky puzzle. And thanks to Hovis for illuminating the very smart gridfill.

    I also didn’t think of ‘rats’ as ‘informers’ – some combination of the Rat Pack and Boomtown Rats got me there, albeit with a bit of an eyebrow, which has now returned to its normal position.

    Chambers gives ‘to sprout’ as its fourth def for ‘shoot’ as an intransitive verb.

    Thanks Serpent and beermagnet.

  14. Thanks for the blog! I was stumped only by Penthouses (cheeky!) which, after a reveal, gave the P for DELPHI – which I got from the checkers; I’d never have cottoned on to the wordplay on its own.

    There’s a typo in the explanation for Prostrate: it should say POST RATE.

    Thanks Serpent and beermagnet.

  15. Thanks both. DUSTBINS was worth the admission money alone for me, though DELPHI only gave with some assistance, as if I knew the name I did not know the meaning and did not spot the sort-of double duty of the city. I too struggled with the anagram fodder for DEFAULTING so originally discounted it as the answer, as I also felt it looked clumsy at best as a noun – I have worked in finance over 40 years, and only ever come across ‘default’ in this sense.

  16. I doubt you’re getting slower, beermagnet. More likely, just one of those days/ I found this quite accessible for a Serpent with only a couple holding out at the end – PROSTRATED, DELPHI (took me ages to make the ‘new area’ connection – I was fixated on NA) and LOI SPROUTED. No probs with the def for me – though I would probably be adding ‘up’ to ‘shot’ to get equivalence. I think I am sharing likes with others – DUSTBINS, OPENLY, CARTHAGE, NOTE, PESSIMISTIC, PROSTRATE and the clever PAYMENT were my faves. It might have been nice to include a QM or something with that last one to put the solver on alert – but then again, why should a setter go out of their way to help us??? SUper puzzle for a Saturday.

    Thanks Serpent and beermagnet

  17. I always find Serpent tricky but thought this wasn’t too troubling by his standards. And lots of fun as always.

    No real difficulties with the parsing but completely missed the theme as per.

    I think your parsing of DEFAULTING is correct, beermagnet, though some might say describing two out of three letters in a word as the “beginning” is another liberty!

    Thanks, S & b.

  18. Widdersbel. I have to disagree. I can’t for the life of me believe Serpent would use ‘beginning to get’ to clue GE. The parsing I had, which KVa also had, i.e. an anagram of FINE + G + ADULT with ‘in trouble’ as the anagram indicator makes much more sense.

  19. I thought the theme was the nation represented in 1d, and the MISERABLE DECLINE shown in the Euros where we were TRUMPED by every other team, leaving us PROSTRATE, DISCOURAGED, PESSIMISTIC, much DERIDED and likely to be DEMOTEd (if not condemned to the DUSTBIN).
    Maybe it’s just me.
    Thanks to Serpent and beermagnet

  20. Delightful puzzle. A bit easier than usual for Serpent, but plenty to enjoy, thank you. Looked in vain for a Nina but did notice the “down” theme.

  22. Well, I completed this fairly quickly, so it can’t have been too difficult, but several I couldn’t parse.

  23. Thanks Serpent for another show of brilliance. There were no bad clues. My top picks were TRUMPED, DERIDE, OPENLY, DEFAULTING, NOTE, MISERABLE, PAYMENT (no problem, I always view compound words suspiciously), and LIGHTER. I couldn’t parse DELPHI. I noticed the large number of down words that meant ‘down’ but I didn’t see the ‘down+’ trick for the other ones. Nicely done, I always like Serpent’s extra layers. Thanks beermagnet for the blog.

  24. Enjoyable, even if not swift… it felt like 4 separate corners, as in I seemed to get 1 clue then it led to nothing very much for a while in all the corners.. last to go was SW.. I entered SPRINTED for 15ac but then had to readjust on filling in PROSTRATE.. I don’t have a problem with SPROUTED for SHOT.. I seem to recall various vegetables are described as “shot” when they push out sprouts.. meaning its too late to harvest them
    … broccoli?
    Loved CHARTAGE n PENT housing MAY.. altho it took a while.. I usually have to work harder for a Serpent puzzle but I’m not complaining ..
    Thanks Serpent n beermagnet

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