Guardian Cryptic 29,420 by Kite

53 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,420 by Kite”

1. Thanks Kite and manehi
   Very odd puzzle for me. The first 2/3 was virtually a write-in, but I then ground to a near halt with some obscure parsing and answers – for example, is STUDENT PASTOR a thing?

2. No doubt I’ll be in my usual minority of one, but didn’t enjoy this. Scottish. French. Obscurities.

3. Muffin@1. That’s what I thought. You can stick just about any occupation after student.

4. Thanks, manehi. Whilst I saw the full stop (it did stick out a bit like a sore thumb – only a few other clues ever have punctuation at the end) in 19a, I couldn’t see what the words were saying.

   First time I have enjoyed a Kite, so thanks

5. The plethora of inviting long anagrams made for swift progress this morning. However, couldn’t quite see the Bull part of BULLRING, nor did I finish, stumped by STOP and ARMY WORM. UNHEROICAL sounded rather contrived to my ears, too. But lots to enjoy along the way…

6. What a great puzzle. There was something quirky and fun about a majority of the clues. Loved the loved anagrams – but was stumped by a few parsings.

   Re muffin and crispy and Student X… I immediately thought Bishop as it fitted clue and my crossers; then decided you just don’t get student bishops

   Thanks Kite and Manehi

7. As muffin @1 said, there are some strange answers in here – A PIED and YAFF, forced on the setter by needing to cross with the long down solutions; UNHEROICAL (really?); STUDENT PASTOR (agree with Crispy @3 – the current favourite seems to be STUDENT POLITICIAN either as a description of the competence of the incumbents or as a cheap line of abuse to hurl at their opponents); IMBURSE.
   But there was some clever wordplay. I liked the long anagrams (I suppose the surface of 7d particularly appealed to me, given the incident a few months ago in which a family court judge in Milton Keynes, a good friend of mine, got violently beaten up). The misdirection in ATELIER is brilliant. And the little full stop lurking at the end of 19a is neat. Pace Dave @4, something as small as that can’t really stick out.
   And although, as muffin says, there are some obscure words in here, I managed to finish it all, which I didn’t manage with yesterday’s exercise in gratuitous obscurity.
   Thanks to Kite and manehi.

8. Kicking myself that I didn’t see “.” as a definition. The only other ? was A PIED with no foreign indicator. Otherwise it went in with a few bumps along the way.

9. A very strange puzzle. A mixture of write ins and obscurities. ARMY WORM? Really? STUDENT PASTOR? Really? And, whilst I know surface readings are of no interest to many solvers, some of these make no sense whatsoever.

10. There were a few obscurities indeed, but I enjoyed the TILTs. STUDENT PASTOR seemed made up, but it must be a thing. A nice theme and lots of spectacular long anagrams to make this a very satisfying solve. ARMY WORM was a bung and shrug until google confirmed. Also had to look up Namur to see if it was a Belgian city. Thanks for parsing POTS which had lots of us bamboozled last night.

    Ta Kite & manehi.

11. ENAMOUR appears both in the Cryptic and the Quick today. Get inspired, everybody.

12. Thank you Kite and Manehi – definitely fun in places but I had most of “unheroical” written in from the clue and was wondering what the last two letters could be, so it did seem a very forced entry. A quick google for “student pastor” reveals numerous job adverts so I guess that is a thing, just not one in the Sits Vac I have perused.

    Did anyone else find 1d unusual? It has wordplay and a cryptic definition, no actual definition. By that I mean that the phrase “keep off the grass” is a real thing, but it only cryptically *could* mean to avoid (some) drugs. The expression does not actually mean the definition given, except cryptically. I’m not saying that this is wrong and non-Ximenean or whatever, just that it is an interesting (to me at least) step away from the pure “wordplay + definition” default.

13. Me @10: STOP of course, still bamboozled it seems!

14. It seems many of us found this a real mix of easy and obscure. Thanks manehi for parsing several I failed on.
    COLLECTION as an anagram indicator?
    Mostly an enjoyable challenge from Kite.

15. Managed to get the left and bottom sections of the grid solved with minimal issues, most of the top and right-hand sections stumped me though.

    CROISSANT and KING SOLOMON were my favourites today, though I’ll have my usual complaint about a specific 1950s jet being used as general knowledge charade for “fighter” as being a little bit out there, especially for younger solvers like myself.

16. I think this was probably the most fun puzzle of the week for me, so far. My fastest solve, too, which I don’t mean as an indicator of anything other than seeming to be on the setter’s wavelength for most of it.

    13 was new but the clueing made it more than clear. 15 less so, and a bit of a wrangle. Regarding STUDENT PASTOR, the first word wasn’t difficult to surmise, but as with Matthew Newell @6, BISHOP came to mind first. I get the questions people have raised about it, but I just made do with what was presented, in the end, from the crossers.

    My favourite was RHYME.

17. Quite tough. I was helped by the long down clues and anagrams.

    I did not parse 19ac, 20ac, 23ac (never heard of Namur), 15d.

    Favourite: KEEP OFF THE GRASS.

    New for me : YAFF = bark (Scottish); ARMY WORM.

    Thanks, both

18. Like others, I enjoyed the thematic clues, but not so much the STUDENT PASTOR and UNHEROICAL. I wondered if the “oi” and “ho” were part of the theme.

19. I’m broadly with NeilH @7 and PostMark @9. NONSIMULTANEOUS was another ‘Really?’ for me, although I admired the anagram.

    I never heard my Scottish husband use the word YAFF – but I suppose it does sound onomatopoeic

    Like JoFT @12, I googled STUDENT PASTOR and found numerous entries but didn’t follow them up.

    I’m with manehi’s favourite CROISSANT – and I still like to see the Frost / rime / rhyme clue! I also liked KING SOLOMON, KEEP OFF THE GRASS and WATCH YOUR STEP.

    Thanks to Kite and manehi.

20. I agree with many comments on the oddness of some answers. I briefly considered STUDENT PRINCE (which does at least exist as an opera) but had to discard it. Would anyone say UNHEROICAL rather than UNHEROIC? (my spell-checker doesn’t like it for one).

21. I thought this was on the easy side for Kite. A few too many anagrams for my taste. I did like SUMMER DRESS, though I can see why mathematicians might not be too happy. With thanks to Kite and manehi.

22. Mostly enjoyable, although my NHO list was on the long side, resulting in a fair bit of googling and wikipediaing — yaff, serrano, army worm, Namur. And I knew one could reimburse but was unaware one could imburse. Didn’t parse ARMY WORM or STOP.

23. YAFF. Is that what ya do very loudly?

24. What others have already said regarding odd/unusual words, but on the whole I enjoyed this. Favourites include several already mentioned, and also MIGRANTS (Dynamite@15, it’s very common to use a classification to clue an answer or part of one – e.g. in 1ac, ‘day’ indicates MON, which is just 1 of 7 possible days of the week. MiG is hardly an obscure fighter manufacturer and has produced new models into the 21st century.)
    Thanks Kite and manehi.

25. A STUDENT PASTOR is a thing in Nonconformist churches: the trainee is dividing his/her time between studying at one of the theological colleges and gaining practical experience by being employed by a church who will provide the opportunity to learn how to be a minister. Our Baptist church has had one quite recently.

26. Dynamite@15

    Never seen Top Gun?

27. So weird. Where are the definitions for 1 down and 14 across? Having monarch as wordplay for KING in 1ac was a disappointing start, should have left it there.

28. Plus theme of signs/notices.

29. Every now and then a down solution doesn’t present itself to me. However, when I resort to writing it out horizontally with pencil and paper – remember them? – it becomes clear. ARMY WORM a good example of this technique.
    Thanks to Kite and manehi.

30. Yes the un … al and the non .. made 16 and 6 a bit tacked together, but pretty harmless. Me an’ mrs ginf stayed at a few pongsiongs and penseeonees in the early years, but long enough ago not to alert the hotelier, so atelier, while an easy chestnut for studio, was ntl a bung. The ham, otoh, was a total nho, so just do what the wrapper says. And no, the lady didn’t turn, she had tay with Pinochet. Ah well, thanks both.

31. I’m not usually on Kite’s wavelength and I wasn’t today. YAFF and ARMY WORM were new: missed the BULL market and the hotelier in ATELIER: several more I didn’t parse. I only know reIMBURSE, and NONSIMULTANEOUS and UNHEROICAL are great clumsy objects that I wouldn’t have bet on being in the dictionary.

    The STOP is a clever little trick, though I’ve seen it done before. I liked KING SOLOMON and the cross ant, and the long anagrams were fiddly but fun.

32. Dynamite@15 MiG is not a specific fighter jet from the 1950s but rather the primary manufacturer of jets for Russia and before that the Soviet Union. Recent models are currently seeing service in the invasion of Ukraine.

33. [Serrano ham is worth trying if you can find it. It’s a bit like Parma ham, though from Spain; I prefer it to Parma ham.]

34. Enjoyed this despite failing to parse a few – my fault, not the setter’s.
    Thanks both.

35. Jimbo @26 thank you so much for that clip!
    Thanks also to Kite and manehi of course, great entertainment. I had no quibbles with the clues and can only think that the Australian and American education systems are seriously lacking in Geography (my favourite subject at school in New Zealand).
    And SteveThePirate @29, I always write difficult down clues sideways, my brain doesn’t work vertically, whereas my husband reads the whole thing upside down across the kitchen table!

36. No qualms or quibbles from this quarter. Top marks for STOP, BULLRINGS & IMBURSE

    I rather liked the unusual UNHEROICAL as it forced me to solve from first principles

    And will keep an eye out for YEFF next time I’m in the Highlands. Could be useful in Scrabble too

    Cheers M&K

37. An interesting puzzle which started off quite quickly for me at the top and left and then really slowed down. I rather liked the theme of signs or notices.

    Chambers has both “heroic” and “heroical”. I remember when I was at school idly wondering if you could go on indefinitely producing longer adjectives by tacking on suffixes – heroic, heroical, heroicalist, heroicalistic, heroicalistical…

    Thanks Kite and manehi.

38. This all went down after some effort – but some words/phrases rather tricky. I don’t think NONSIMULTANEOUS can be written as one word without the hyphen. And I’ve never heard of a STUDENT PASTOR – why a pastor in particular, and not any type of cleric?

    YAFF was unknown to me – an obvious ‘filler’ (along with A PIED) as others have pointed out.

    But – long anagrams galore! – and I loved KEEP OFF THE GRASS and DOGS NOT ALLOWED. Both of these reminded me of Spanish lessons from many years ago. The first translates as NO PISAR EL CESPED which means more or less the same thing, but to the uninitiated it suggests something rather cruder! As for the other, the phrase ¡NO PEROS: NO PERROS! springs to mind (“no buts: no dogs!”). A nice pun in the Spanish.

    The wordplay for SOGGY – is it ambiguous, could be BOGGY? At least the crossers resolve it.

    UNHEROICAL was my LOI and troublesome (I tried to write in UNHERALDED but it didn’t work). At least it’s in Chambers, under the list of “UN-“s.

    As to ARMY WORM – that took a while! Reminded me of our USA trip two years ago – walking in the Appalachians we saw trees, mostly maples, literally covered with small caterpillars – but I think the culprit this time was the Gipsy Moth, not the Army Worm. But both are notorious pests over there…

    Finally, isn’t it a bit demeaning to call a mathematician a SUMMER? I guess the likes of Andrew Wiles wouldn’t be very flattered…!

    Thanks to Kite and Manehi.

39. Many thanks to manehi for a good blog and to all the commenters.

    The inspiration for this started when I saw a notice that read: Dogs not permitted in the cemetery. A few other notices then came to mind.

    I must confess that I did not know YAFF (Chambers), so I tried to make the clue fairly straightforward. Namur is, I think, fairly well-known to Europeans. UNHEROICAL and NONSIMULTANEOUS are in Collins, ARMY WORM or ARMYWORM is in all the main dictionaries, SERRANO ham is common in the UK and Europe. STUDENT PASTOR is a term used by certain churches that can be found on the WWW.

    I try to make clue surfaces plausible and they seem to make sense to me.

40. A few too any obscurities fore to be enjoyable.
    Tough crossword after yesterday.
    Thanks both

41. For once solved by lunchtime possibly because working from home means lunch with mum and a bit of healthy competition. Thought would be early comment but the site was down! Don’t mind obscurities as long as clue is fair but nonsimultaneous just sounds like an awful clunky word. Thanks to one and all and back to office tomorrow.

42. Thanks for the blog, I thought this was really good. For once the full stop I stared at meant something other than a misprint. ATELIER is very neat wordplay, for IMBURSE I spent far too long wondering about RA meaning annual .

43. Another who wasn’t too keen on this outing. I know many solvers are happy to ignore any type of punctuation in a clue but 4d does grate with me. Removing the hyphen from “coffee-drinking”, which is needed, reverses the meaning (i.e., the coffee should be taken in). I’m sure this type of construction is a no-no for some setters.

44. I didn’t have any problem with NONSIMULTANEOUS, though I agree that it might have been hyphenated. It was one of my early write-ins.

45. The long anagrams gave a quick foothold, without which I think that this would have been very difficult, as opposed to just difficult. Needed help with the parsing of quite a few. Thanks manehi for the excellent blog. Thanks Kite for the quirky workout.

46. [I’ll just have to have my revenge on Kite for calling a mathematician a SUMMER…

    Scene: my school days (about 3rd year – year 9 in modern parlance). Early ’60s.

    Maths master is explaining logarithms for the first time (remember – no calculators in those days). He relates how Noah sent all the animals out of the Ark with the exhortation “Go forth and multiply!”
    On searching the Ark he discovers a pair of little snakes left behind. “Why aren’t you going forth and multiplying?” he asks.
    “We can’t. We’re adders.”
    “No problem. I’ll get hold of my friend John Napier and ask him to invent logarithms: then you can multiply by simply doing addition…”

    (*groan*)

    I’ll get my coat….]

47. I quirked an eyebrow at many of the same things that others have mentioned above but I still really enjoyed this puzzle. I am a bit surprised, however, that no one has pointed out that SUMMER DRESS is a remarkably specific solution to a remarkably vague clue!

48. Really liked 19a STOP.

49. This is a bit aspirational, maybe, but it makes a point: “A mathematician tries to find a way to look at the problem so that the solution is obvious.” SUMMing (anything) is to be avoided.

50. Late to get here, but adding I got YAFF from yaffingale, a name for the green woodpecker almost certainly based on it’s cry and certain churches in university towns have STUDENT PASTORs to work with the student population.

    Thank you to Kite and manehi

51. [Test message]

52. There seem to be two kinds of STUDENT PASTORS: the kind I described @25, and a pastor specifically employed to minister to young people. Neither particularly common.

53. Hmm website down yesterday so couldn’t add to… Enjoyable on the whole – didn’t know unheroical was a word. Hmmm…
    Thanks to setter and blogger. Student pastor…hmmmm…learner penne…hmmmmm

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