General Discussion

This page is for the discussion of general crossword related matters and other topics of interest.

Comments posted before 24/04/25 can be found here.

 

102 comments on “General Discussion”

  1. Thanks for the recommendation for the Indy and FT puzzles, Roz and Widdersbel above @ comments 140 and 141.

  2. The Azed didn’t appear yesterday on the Guardian website, and today has mysteriously been removed from the list of puzzles at the top. I hesitate to ask the question,. but has Jonathan Crowther died?

  5. @3

    Has the ‘Azed/Everyman post at the top of home page’ gone somewhere else?

    Regardless of that, how can the post be found?

  6. M @6. If you scroll down (I’m using a smart phone) you’ll see a link saying Azed / Everyman in the list.

  7. M @6

    You can find just about anything on fifteensquared by using the search facility – just type in a few characters (setter, newspaper, puzzle number etc) and you will get results dating back over 20 years of material.

  8. You can also select by category. The post you’re looking for is in Announcements, Azed and Everyman

  9. Thanks for the updated list of setters.
    Puck/Wanderer is no more, too.
    Don’t know if Genius setters are included or not. If yes, Karla and Claw are missing.
    Dalibor returns to Indy (last seen there in 2021).

  10. Kite had a prize crossword (No. 29,673) well over a week ago. Is there any plan for a blog of this?

  11. @10

    I think that’s the one that appeared in error instead of the Maskarade puzzle (see here)

    I believe Kite will appear this month. Whether it will be a prize one remains to be seen.

  12. Tony Santucci @11: On Saturday 19th I posted this on Site Feedback:

    “This may be the appropriate place to say that earlier today a standard 15 x 15 online Prize by Kite appeared on the Guardian website, as well as the expected Bank Holiday Jumbo by Maskarade.

    The Kite puzzle was around long enough for some people to do it, but the Guardian now says it was published in error and has removed it: apparently it will reappear in May.”

  13. Any fellow fans of Stereolab out there? As if it’s not exciting enough that they have a new album coming out soon, they’ve shared a groop-themed cryptic crossword on their website, set by none other than Alan Connor…

    https://stereolab.co.uk/crossword

  14. Might be just me but I cannot see a new Everyman on the Observer website today – anyone found it?
    If not looks like Quiptic has a new follower!

  15. Apologies – this being discussed in today’s post about last week’s Everyman: didn’t think to look there. Mea culpa

  17. QQ regarding the new Everyman setup: is is possible to see/do the previous week’s puzzle on the same Observer website? The puzzle number doesn’t seem to appear in the URL, so my fear is that the puzzles aren’t being archived and can’t be reached once they’ve been shunted off by the following week”s puzzle. Which seems a bit weird because presumably it’s not possible to see your own answers on the day of the blog, because the new puzzle appears instead (except for what looked like a few hours’ glitch yesterday morning).

  18. AP, I share your concerns. I’ve been taking screen shots of my completed Everyman and Azed puzzles for that very reason.

  20. Thanks for that Widdersbel@13, will print it off and get cracking, I can’t claim to be a lifelong Stereolab fan (which might hinder my solving, judging from a skim through the clues) but have enjoyed a few of their songs on the radio (including the new ones) and hope to catch them live next month so this will be a good way to warm up. (I will also see Maiden later in June, no sign yet of a cryptic crossword on their website though.) Look forward to your blog of the puzzle appearing here soon!

  21. Re the Observer-based Everyman, a couple of comments / queries: it appears to have a clue-reveal function, which seems to make the award of a prize for the first four opened complete entries a bit spurious; there doesn’t seem to be an anagram -assist function; annoyingly, they don’t seen to be putting bars between words in multi-worded solutions. More positively the ability to complete it jointly with a distant a.n other is great

  22. No, the Observer doesn’t have the anagram helper, and it’s annoying. But if you solve on a mobile phone, there are no check, reveal or clear buttons available either.

  24. @23

    That’s the question on everybody’s lips.

    This is the third Everyman (and Azed) under The Observer and so far they haven’t appeared without manual intervention.

  25. Also, now that the Azed blog is up, how do I find the completed puzzle it refers to, which has now been overwritten on the Observer website by a new blank grid?

  26. gladys@25. If you download the PDF version, select the date you want, the completed previous version is there, as appears in dead tree versions.

  27. Valentine@23. While there have been glitches as Admin Ken said @24, this week’s Everyman did come up on Sunday sometime. They have removed the ability to check your answers, as should be the case with a puzzle which is submitted for a ”prize”.

    You can find the puzzles (Azed, Speedy, Everyman and Sudoko) by going to observer.co.uk and under the main menu option Read, on the LHS, Puzzles is at the bottom of that list; alternatively, https://observer.co.uk/crossword. If you just want Everyman, go to observer.co.uk/everyman.

  29. squidlet @28 – according to this month’s Crossword Blog from the Guardian there is an archive for the Everyman, Azed and Speedy – it’s the first paragraph of that article. (I can’t link all the links here because Akismet will mark the post as spam, sorry.)

  30. Guardian prize 29697 Kite. I’m getting a sense of Deja vu. Has this crossword appeared before – it doesn’t come up in a search but I remember there was one printed online which didn’t match the one answered on here = possibly around Easter.

  31. JuliaC @30. It did appear, on-line only, on the same date as a Maskarade puzzle, but then was removed later in the day when they realised they’d messed things up.

  32. Crispy @31 – the Kite puzzle wasn’t removed from the Guardian app – I’ve got both versions on my phone.

  34. Thanks everyone.
    Glad to know I wasn’t imagining it. I think the Deja vu was from struggling with the same clues then looking up to check they were real words/places with the right meaning.

  35. There’ a movie on Sky Cinema called Wild Robot. I have no intention of watching it but the write-up caught my eye:

    After a shipwreck, an intelligent robot called Roz survives the harsh environments of an uninhabited island with the help of wild animals.

    Discuss

  36. Thanks for that snippet, Ken. “Intelligent robot”, eh? Coincidence? Possibly not. 😄

  38. For those reading after 7.08 BST, there was a comment with a link in, which Ken has deleted (thanks Ken). There is nothong dodgy whatsoever about Sheffield Hatter’s post.

  40. I’ve posted a ChatGPT poem about crosswords in the style of Rupert Brooke on yesterday’s Maskerade blog, in case anyone is interested.

  41. The funniest thing just happened (relevant here). I often spell my email address over the phone, and since so many of the letters sound the same and since so many people misspell my last name (Penney with two E’s, y’all), I spell it out using the NATO alphabet. So just now I did, as I always do, “M as in Mike, R as in Romeo, P as in Papa, E as in Echo,” etc., and the woman at the other end, after I was done, said, “Are you a military guy?” And I said, uh, no, I just learned this because of…um, crosswords?

    Anyway, I thought some of you might get a kick out of that.

  42. mrpenney@41 that is lovely!

    I live in Spain and my non-native pronunciation can cause difficulties over the phone, yet I’m not sure how much of the general public in non-English
    -speaking countries would know the Nato alphabet. So I use the technique of “M for Madrid, Z for Zaragoza”. Some of the letters that I find myself needing have required more than a moment’s thought, leaving a pause during the call – with usually a laugh afterwards with my interlocutor, and sometimes even suggestions from them!

    I don’t know much about crosswords, but you won’t beat me on Spanish provincial capitals 😉

  45. Hi all! I am a relative newbie with a question about UK cryptics and their difficulty ratings. Is there a list here or somewhere that can help me move up a level without sinking?! I can do the Grauniad Quiptic without too much trouble, and the Cryptic with some help. Thanks in advance!

  46. Hi Sonja @45. Have you checked out the Newbie Corner shown in the site menu? It looks tailor-made for your needs. I think there are a number of posts already in that blog that will provide guidance, and I’m sure you’ll get a timely response to any new queries you submit there.

  47. Why-oh-why does the Guardian persist in accepting solutions to the prize crossword only by post or Fax? Has anybody who doesn’t have access to a Fax machine in an office ever succeeded in sending a Fax? I’m not daft – I was teaching programming in the sixties and I was involved in the development of the internet … but I can’t figure out how to send a Fax from my laptop.
    So the Guardian is being unaccountably biased … only corporate emplotees can send in electonic entries. This matters to me since I spend a lot of time abroad, and snail mail will just not do the job.
    Why-oh-why can we not just email entries? It would be so much easier for all parties, including the Guardian!

  48. Can anyone explain this answer to me. From Daily Express Crusader May 25th 2025. City Editor turned ‘almost 3′ to ’11’ on time. I know the answer is DETROIT. That can be an anagram of EDITOR and T from time. Or DE from editor turned, TROI from almost French 3 trois and T from time. Either way, I don’t understand what 11 is doing in there.

  49. Tracey @48 is there an 11 across or an 11 down whose answer is a French name? ‘almost 3 to 11’ would then give TROI where ‘to 11’ would be a French indicator.

  51. Keith@47: To my knowledge there’s no “native” way to send a fax from a laptop unless it’s equipped with a fax modem. I think your best bet is an online pay-as-you-go fax service. I’ve looked around a bit, and I’d recommend WiseFax. I just successfully faxed the current G prize crossword using that service, for a $1.00 token.
    That’s quite reasonable, considering the cost of a letter to the UK via US mail is $1.65. They appear to operate globally, so as long as you can get online you should be in business. I’d be interested in others’ solution to this. (As for your opening and concluding questions, I have no idea 🙂

  52. A friend (who does not do cryptic puzzles) sent me a message asking if this would work as a cryptic clue – I have a feeling it is more of a puzzle question:

    What word has six letters in it, but when you subtract one, twelve remain? (6)

    I can provide the answer they gave me if anyone is interested.

  53. Michelle@52. It’s expressed as a quiz question but could easily be rewritten in crosswordese. Something like ‘Maidens lose one for lots of time (5)’.

  54. I see that the Telegraph is celebrating 100 years since it became the first British newspaper to publish a daily crossword. They are publishing a vintage crossword every day for the next month starting with Puzzle No.1 which appeared on 30 July, 1925.

  56. My friends and I have recently begun tackling the Guardian Quick Cryptics together, and your website has been very helpful in understanding how to approach the tricks. Thank you so much for building a lovely community and for all of your hard work maintaining the website!

  57. sheffield hatter@53
    Thanks for the reply above.
    I’m not sure how they could rewrite that clue. The answer is DOZEN (ie remove the S from DOZENS).
    Maybe: If lots lose one, twelve remain (5)
    or something like that?

    What is the answer to your example ‘Maidens lose one for lots of time (5)’?

  59. Private Eye (Cyclops/810)
    3 down elucidation
    long-suffering = putting up with something
    job = faeces (here in Glasgow, at least)

    Fifteensquared is brilliant.

  60. Baldparent – thanks for that, but why not post it on the relevant blog? Having read the clue and answer, I’m not sure whether your suggestion is what Cyclops had in mind. But it would fit in with what the blogger classes as the setter being in “puerile form”.

  61. So…I’ve started seeing a clue type in American cryptics that I’ve never seen in British ones (a first!): letter banks. It’s similar to an anagram, but each letter can be used as many times as necessary. For example, this clue in the most recent issue of Games Magazine:

    Over this–all the parts are there for a World War II icon (5,3,7)

    for the answer ROSIE THE RIVETER (all of whose letters are in the phrase “over this”). This is kind of a lousy example since the surface reading leaves something to be desired, and probably also because Rosie is an American WWII icon, so maybe not your cup of tea, but it’s the example I have at hand (credit to setter Stella Zawitowski). To work, your letter bank word or phrase has to include each of the necessary letters once and only once.

    Anyway, thoughts on this clue type? Any more felicitous ways of signaling it than Zawitowski used? (Also, are there British examples I’ve missed?)

  62. mrpenney@61: Interesting. I remember seeing a clue of this type in the Independent, but I forget how long ago. I was just looking through the blog out of curiosity.

    It seems to me that letter bank puzzles can be quite good word puzzles in their own right, provided that the answer is carefully chosen. Probably the best is SIMP as a letter bank for MISSISSIPPI. Going slightly off at a tangent, I remember a puzzle book which invited you to find the word _HQ_, where the underlines were actually much longer, and each stood for an unstated number of letters. I could not solve this without further help, and I wonder if there is any other pair of letters which would make a puzzle with only one answer.

    Returning to the example I remember, my memory is as follows, but details may have slipped in my mind. I think the answer was nine letters long, of which the first six were all different and the last three were repeats of letters already used. The setter felt impelled to join the discussion, and justified his use of the device by his inability to think of a good way of cluing the last three letters. Mulling it over in my mind (as I do with these things) I thought of two possibilities, but it took my unconscious brain at least two days to generate them and pass the results to my conscious brain.

    Overall, I think there are two major barriers to the use of letter banks as anything other than a very rare occurrence. I cannot see them creating an earthquake in the British crossword puzzling world.

    First, unless the answer has been chosen carefully with the intention of using a letter bank, I think they are asking too much of the solver, which in my view is the overarching reason for labelling a clue as unfair. This suggests that the good ones will be used up before long.

    Second, the possibility for ambiguous answers is far too high.

    These are provisional thoughts, and I am happy to have them challenged. Anyone still trying to solve _HQ_ should look back three paragraphs.

  64. PB@62: Perhaps you’re thinking of 1D in Indy 11,610 by Eccles? (Actually 10 letters, the last 4 being repeats.)

    Eccles also used the device at 10A in Indy 11,862. I’m personally not a fan, and would bin it along with the use of a word as a “subtractive letter bank” to condition anagram fodder.

  65. Coloradan@64: Thank you. It was definitely the one in 11,610 that I remembered – slightly inaccurately, as it turns out. I think it is somewhat kinder to the solver than the later one, because the answer NORTHERNER begins with an exact anagram of “her, not”. The extra letters could perhaps have been clued as CORNER missing company, and my other option had the letters RNER appearing regularly in some other words which I cannot for the moment recover. I am certainly not intending to blame Eccles for not making a satisfactory clue based of either of these possibilities in the time that setters can reasonably be expected to spend in compiling a puzzle: I am only mentioning them in detail now because I hinted at them earlier.

  66. Yours involving “corner” would have been a very neat solution, PB@65. I must say I’m a great admirer of the setter, and it’s certainly to his credit that he himself points out the dubious nature of the clue type.

  68. There’s a change in the moderation activity in the Guardian cryptics. Posters have been getting modded out for seemingly innocuous comments. I reported myself recently for inadvertently revealing a solution and was quickly deleted which I was happy about. The conditions were available to me to read at that time. Don’t know where else they may appear.

    My response to another poster today has also been removed, when I was simply explaining the policy. I also politely asked the Guardian Team to come on and remind us, as there seems to be a new emphasis that many of us aren’t aware of.

    Basically, what is causing confusion, is that a post can be deleted simply for mentioning moderation. I did read that. And it’s a mystery to anyone who’s read the post and come back to find it disappeared, entirely, with no comment from the moderators or record that the post existed.

    We’ve gone from no response to reporting revelations of clues, to the moderators acting swiftly if anyone makes a comment perceived to be critical of the setter, and certainly, whenever mention is made of moderation.

    This surprises me. It’s not the image I have of the Guardian.

  69. I’ve seen this happen on other message boards: Sssh! don’t mention the existence of rules, moderators, or moderation! It may be because of the new legislation banning support for P******** A*****, which means that the Guardian and its moderators are having to be extremely twitchy about what is posted below the line. I would guess that there is probably a corresponding upsurge in complaints about the moderation process, and the algorithm has been reset to filter them out automatically. I hope this will turn out to be a temporary state of affairs.

  70. gladys@69. Thanks for that. Not being a UK resident I wasn’t aware of new legislation.

    What I did find was the Data (Use and Access) Act 2025. Is that it? No doubt it’s valuable in protecting people, but, skimming through, I read one criticism is that it can lead to “censorship of legal content”.

    You’re probably right about the algorithm. I wasn’t complaining at all. Just politely explaining the G’s own policy to another poster who was questioning why someone’s “innocuous” post had disappeared. Of course, all 3 of our posts have now disappeared, so there’s no record of any of this. It’d be funny, if it wasn’t spooky.

    I hope this new legislation doesn’t affect our chats here. We’re, on the whole, a very self-disciplined bunch and well-moderated when needs be.

  71. Paddymelon, do you have anything more specific to help identify the specific provision, part or section(s) within the Act that is being referred to; and at least a link to your quoted source?

  72. Gladys @69 is referring to this organisation which is now proscribed in the UK. We have had a series of demonstrations where just carrying a placard (mostly sitting peacefully) that supports the group has meant the protestors are arrested and charged. 474 people were arrested at the protest on 9 August, there’s another due on 6 September.

    The Data (Use and Action) Act 2025, according to the ICO (Information Commissioner’s Office) is supposed to make data use less onerous, but also protect children, in theory. There are concerns about the bill – I can’t link to anything else without being marked as spam, but the Open Rights Organisation has concerns about the lessening of controls on AI use of data and the powers given to the Secretary of State. There are other concerns about the abuse of children’s data.

    There are also the updates to the Online Safety Act (2023) which are now enacted, supposedly preventing children and adults from accessing inappropriate material. The child safety regime under this act should now be fully implemented.

  73. Myself and a friend have been regularly competing the Everyman for a while now and are looking for a new challenge. Azed and Gemelo are a little too tricky does anyone have any recommendations?

  75. CCXXV @73,
    I suggest moving on to the regular weekday Guardian cryptics. Some are going to be harder than the Everyman, but a fair few these days are on a par or actually easier. Tackling the trickier ones and checking in here is a great way to improve. I’d also recommend that you enjoy the journey and not necessarily worry about completing all the puzzles.
    Hope that helps.

  77. Does anyone else think that the Guardian cryptic is becoming easier? I’ve been a regular solver for over 40 years so I don’t think I’ve suddenly got better. It seems to me that what used to be the Monday-level difficulty of puzzle now pervades most of the week, with a few exceptions.

    I was delighted to find a Paul last week with a long multiple-entry clue. I eagerly set about it, expecting a rigorous workout. Sadly, many of the other clues were so straightforward that the long clue was easily deduced and the puzzle completed in no time. If it didn’t carry Paul’s name I would never have guessed he was responsible.

    Is this run of pedestrian puzzles just a coincidence or the result of a change in editorial policy? I’m conscious there is a fairly new editor in place.

  78. Lockjaw @ 77
    Can’t say I’ve noticed. Either you’re getting better or I’m getting worse. (I’ve been a regular Guardian solver since 1960, not that it’s anything to be proud of).

  79. Hi everyone,

    Amateur Everyman enthusiast here who wants to ask about the move to the Observer. Me and hubby are finding the new interface really tiresome with no anagram helper as well as several other buggy bits. Reading some of the comments on this website it seems as though they are aware the UI isn’t great, but is there a way I can submit my detailed list of grievances to them? Working in tech myself I know they nothing gets done without specifics – and I have a bunch of them to provide. I acknowledge I am probably asking this in the wrong place but did search this website and couldn’t find anywhere else where I could ask so please redirect me if needed.

  80. Angel @ 79 – The Everyman puzzle page has a support link in the top left menu (three bars). You might be able to provide feedback to Amuse Labs from there. My main complaint is the missing word breaks in the grid. I usually print the puzzle, which avoids all the UI lackings (apart from the word breaks). Best of luck.

  82. Hello!
    Does anyone know what the schedule is for Gemelo puzzles? I went to the Observer site expecting to see Gemelo #11 but there wasn’t one, but there was an Azed instead. I can’t find anywhere that explains what their plan is. Does the Azed replace the Gemelo once a month?

  83. Ok poking around further I see that somewhere on social media it’s explained that Azed continues once a month, while Gemelo is on the other Sundays.

  84. This is in reply to the site policy reminder posted yesterday because of comments on Guardian 29,821, Paul.
    I have read all the comments, and see that there was at least one deleted which I missed. Of those remaining, are any considered to breach site policy? To me, they all seem well within sensible bounds of politeness. The discussion as a whole is civilised and gives a picture of the overall reaction to the puzzle. Why was it necessary to shut it down?
    I do not agree that the TV channel analogy is perfect. Sure, there are plenty here who solve every crossword available, of the very limited daily selection compared to TV channels. But is it not the case that for most who do the Guardian crossword, the Guardian crossword is the one they do? Suggesting they go off and do a different one is sticking a couple of fingers up at your loyal customers.
    For context, I am not defending yesterday’s comments because I agree with them. I find Paul’s Guardian puzzles to be the most inventive and entertaining of any setter across any outlet. There’s nothing else like them. But yesterday’s was particularly hard, and had a theme that could be expected to be divisive. There has to be a way of finding out if you’ve dropped a clanger, as a setter. Please don’t police that too strongly.

    As a separate point, has this page largely stopped being used since access to it was nested within a menu? It seems like that. Could it be put back on the home page?

  85. One example, “Paul can get in the sea” is, in my opinion, hateful and hurtful, and could be considered bullying.

    I don’t want that kind of hatred on this site.

  87. @85 Fair enough, that is personal and offensive, but presumably it is one you deleted as I can’t see it on the blog now. As it reads now, there is a polite albeit grumpy discussion followed by a Guardian setter telling people off for saying what they thought about a crossword on a blog dedicated to saying what you think about crosswords, followed by shut down. Perhaps, if the targets of Hamish’s comment have disappeared, his should too?

  88. One other thought. The site policy asks that reasons for disliking a puzzle should be given, which I don’t have a problem with. Can I ask commenters who make bland “I really loved / enjoyed this” also say WHY they loved / enjoyed it? I for one would find it useful, particularly if it was a puzzle I didn’t enjoy. It might also make me think differently next time I looked at a puzzle by the same setter.

  89. Ken. I think it would be helpful if, when you delete posts, you were to replace the relevant text with something such as “This post has been removed” rather than excise the whole entry. That would (a) ensure that cross-references to numbered entries would not be knocked awry on account of the automatic re-numbering that takes place when an entry is deleted, and (b) help to avoid the potential confusion caused by extant references to offensive posts which are no longer in sight.

  91. OK, didn’t realise that. Is it perhaps possible to pause the introduction of new comments while you make the deletion?

  92. Hi,
    Does anyone know where I can access a copy of the grid used in the final of the inaugural WCCC?
    The official website has a link which doesn’t work. I can only access the 2 preliminary grids.
    I have sent them emails but got no response.

  93. Jay@54. Can you please post a list of the clues for that crossword? I am in Australia and am not a subscriber of the Telegraph. I actually have a copy of the grid and most of the clues, but am missing the down clues.

  94. Hi Wolobofe, these are the down clues…
    Down
    1 Often “snatched from the burning”. (5)
    2 A seat of learning is the key to this. (4)
    3 Tumult. (4)
    4 Poems. (4)
    5 Bears the burden of youth. (4)
    6 Tree. (3)
    7 Supplements. (4)
    9 Transported. (4)
    10 Air (mus.) (4)
    11 An annual festival. (4)
    12 A fish. (5)
    14 Fall. (4)
    15 Greek god of love. (4)
    24 Mythical founder of a great Empire. (7)
    25 Country of Europe. (5)
    26 Not so well. (5)
    27 Pronoun. (2)
    28 Indian lemur. (5)
    29 A district in South London. (5)
    31 Conjunction. (2)
    32 River of France. (5)
    33 Can pick and strike. (5)
    34 Note of octave. (3)
    35 First name of famous Highland outlaw. (3)
    36 Unit. (3)
    38 An explosive. (1,1,1)
    43 Thank you. (2)
    45 Exist. (2)
    49 A king, both first and sixth. (5)
    50 A German word not used on Armistice night. (4)
    51 Consider. (4)
    52 Depressions. (5)
    54 Bars and is often barred. (4)
    55 A skin affliction. (4)
    56 Changed by motorists. (4)
    58 Rock. (4)
    59 Also. (4)
    60 Recess in church. (4)
    61 Lump. (4)
    62 Would apply to the upper atmosphere. (4)
    65 Before. (3)

  96. Hi Ken, is there a blog for the Paul puzzle today or has it been taken offline due to a torrent of invective as per the “Cambridge” instance? I limped to the end and have quite a few parsings missing, but doubt it raised too many hackles.

  97. Today’s Paul is nothing like as tough as the Cambridge one (and we have had other Paul blogs since then). The main annoyance is the very large number of multi-light clues – but that’s Paul.

  99. Sorry: I was trying to defuse the idea that blogging Paul might have become toxic. Please delete the comment if it’s a problem.

  101. Jerry@95, they are contained in the pdf of the current week. So, for instance, the pdf for Gemelo 12 contains Gemelo’s solution and notes for Gemelo 9.

    It’s also useful to note that Gemelo uses a cryptic shorthand for answer explanations which is explained in detail here .

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