Guardian 29,782 / Vulcan

66 comments on “Guardian 29,782 / Vulcan”

1. Exodus – also a book by Leon Uris

2. Thanks, Crispy!

3. Thanks Vulcan and Eileen
   I had never heard of LODEN – I tried OLDEN without an obvious definition first.
   Although they are related, I don’t think TRAIN and railway are equivalent.
   Favourite HALF BOARD.

4. If I had a top 10 Vulcan puzzles I don’t think this would be in it. Quite liked ERODE, NO FAULT & CAPTAINED

   And Learned a couple of new words; TRAINBAND & LODEN

   Cheers E&V

5. TRAINBAND & LODEN were new to me too, and I was unable to work out Thatcher’s contribution to HANDBAGS. All else straightforward and enjoyable.

6. Nice puzzle. I rather like the extended definition / surface read in LEST WE FORGET.

   If anyone missed it there is a Bank Holiday Maskarade puzzle, but in the paper only, not available online. I hope it is able to be blogged at some point.

   I read EXODUS as a cryptic definition.

   Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

7. Not sure the definition of LEST WE FORGET quite works

8. Very nice puzzle indeed with a bank holiday breakfast. I had EXODUS as a cryptic definition rather than a double, which I think makes more sense of ‘from scripture’. Many thanks to V & E.

9. Like Eileen I knew ‘trained band’ from 17th-century history, and then remembered (from decades ago!) John Gilpin, that citizen ‘Of credit and renown’ – ‘A train-band captain eke was he’; and so persuaded myself that ‘trainband’ was a word, though I share muffin’s scepticism about ‘train’ and ‘railway’.

   Not too much of a challenge today, which is probably a good thing as I need to return at some point to Enigmatist’s Prize crossword.

10. Oops! Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen

11. Dermot Trellis @7

    I almost commented on the grammatical precision of LEST WE FORGET.
    Think of ‘to’ in the clue as ‘in order to’. ‘Lest’ = ‘in order to/that not’ – takes me back to teaching Latin ‘purpose clauses’!

12. Thatcher always carried a handbag as did Her late Majesty, I suspect it was copycat by the former since she often used the royal we!….

13. I’ve read the Leon Uris book, but had forgotten about it, back when he was popular and still publishing. Dressmaking helps again, I knew and have handled LODEN – but I often notice that I am the only person recognising fabrics and sewing terms in these crossword blogs.

    I go to the train/railway station to travel.

    I didn’t find this a particularly easy Vulcan, but I find cryptic definitions less easy to get a grip on than Lego clues. I never did find Rufus easy.

    Thank you to Eileen and Vulcan.

14. Surely ‘railway’ and ‘train’ aren’t synonyms … putting ‘station’ after them doesn’t make them so …

15. Thanks for digging into TRAIN(ed)BAND, Eileen.

    I looked twice at the LEST WE FORGET grammar but decided it could work with the right emphasis.

    Pleasant bank holiday solve, many thanks, both.

16. Look at that beautiful train/railway engine?

17. Tim Phillips @14 (and muffin @3)

    Train and railway are not synonyms but convey the same idea: you can travel by train/railway or by car/road – sufficient equivalence for a crossword , I think.

18. Re. 15D. Railway and train don’t need to be synonyms for the clue to work. The phrases ‘train ban’ and ‘railway veto’ mean the same as each other.

19. Train station = Railway station?
    I enjoyed, (and completed!) this one.
    Thank you Eileen and Vulcan

20. Pedants’ corner but sorry, Eileen, I for one have never travelled by railway! ‘On’ the railway, perhaps; very long pairs of rails held at a fixed distance; ‘by’ train, the thing that moves along them, certainly.

    I’ll get me coat … NO! Me anorak!

21. I remember Philistine’s ‘Mrs Sprat does talk for CHEW THE FAT, which is hard to beat. Even with minimal sewing expertise I had heard of LODEN.

22. Thanks for the puzzle.A relief after Enigmatist.

23. Agree that 2d EXODUS is a cryptic definition. Without ‘from scripture’ the definirion would not be cryptic, but with it the surface meaning is a book that disagrees with scripture

24. Nho TRAINBAND nor LODEN, but they were gettable with some Googling.

    22a ANGLOPHILE: Both Chambers and Wikipedia define this in terms of affection for England and English culture. The clue is simply wrong where it didn’t need to be.

25. poc @24, ODE… “noun a person who is fond of or greatly admires England or Britain.”
    Go and argue the point with the professional lexicographers.

26. [Sarah @9, I’m glad someone else needs another go at Enigmatist’s Prize puzzle, in my case despite a very long train (!) journey yesterday]

27. As a Scotophile I tend to agree with poc.

28. I guess the ODE is not a Scottish dictionary Admin @27.

29. Historically at least, the prefix Anglo didn’t just refer to England in a narrow sense. The Anglo-Russian Convention of 1907 and the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921 were agreements with the United Kingdom. Though these days we do tend to be a bit more literal.

    Very enjoyable Monday puzzle. Many thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

30. Without wishing to join a pedantic debate about the use of the word “railway”, once I had T-A-N—- I immediately thought of “TRAIN something”. Isn’t that what the clue is trying to direct me towards? (And yes, I did have to search for the answer.)

31. Tim Phillips @20
    I have certainly travelled by rail. And by extension, by railway.

32. TRAINBAND and LODEN were new to me as for several others, but the former was readily constructed with crossers, and the latter fell into the category of “what else can it be?”.

33. Is LODEN a studio at the bottom of a house? And TRAINBAND, the entertainers on board? I liked ANGLOPHILE, HALF-BOARD and CHEW THE FAT, which I took as a double definition (while eating, lean [is] out).

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

34. Eileen @ 11

    You’re right of course. I should have seen that after the years I spent studying Latin. And I should know by now to trust Vulcan. Thanks!

35. Usual Vulcan stuff which was very enjoyable in most places.

    Not heard of TRAINBAND and ANGLOPHILE took an age. Was it a case of not being cryptic enough or as POC said not correct? Either way it took up most the time on this one.

    EXODUS my favourite today.

    Thanks Eileen and Vulcan

36. Enjoyable puzzle. The last few were slow to yield, so fairly challenging for a Monday. Favourites 1a USED CAR, 10a CAPTAINED, 26a OLIVE, 2d EXODUS

    2d EXODUS, perhaps a paraphrase of the CD would be “major departure found in scripture”

    15d TRAINBAND is in Chambers

    Didn’t know about the “Thatcher attacks” — would be more amusing but for her policies

    Sixth completion in a row, tying my record

37. Brilliant, Mig @36! Onward and Upward. 🙂

38. Very enjoyable puzzle and superb blog as usual from Eileen.
    TRAINBAND and LODEN were new to me as well, and as an Aussie, I did not know the connection between Mrs Thatcher and her HANDBAGS. Thank you Eileen for the link to that delightful article. It was worth doing this puzzle for that alone.
    My favourite clue was LEST WE FORGET, with the anagram fodder suggesting or leading towards a wreath. I thought it was a lovely surface.
    I also liked ABRAHAM, CAPTAINED, ANGLOPHILE, EXODUS.
    Thanks Vlad and Eileen.

39. Thanks to all of you who mentioned the prize Enigmatist. Had no idea there was a prize crossword last Saturday. Assumed Maskerade was it!! Totally missed the instructions under the biggie! Mind you have just started it and it is typical of Mr H: very very demanding.Keep me quiet for a bit!

40. Shane @13 – I am another who usually knows the sewing terms and fabrics, but not this time unfortunately. I had the crossers, but it could have been “ledon” from the clue.
    Wasn’t really impressed by ANGLOPHILE either, but overall an entertaining solve as usual from Vulcan. Thanks to him and Eileen.

41. I wonder if HANDBAGGING is a Thatcher type SANDBAGGING, literally bashing someone with a sock filled with sand. No first hand experience, but she was notoriously ruthless.

    Thanks both

42. LODEN or Ledon, that was the only unanswered question at the very end of this enjoyable puzzle. New one for me too, Eileen.
    And a wonderful warm sunny day it is on the Yorkshire coast at Whitby it is today…

43. This was probably my first unaided completion of a cryptic (except quiptics and Everymen(?)) Very enjoyable, as always with Vulcan. The NW corner took me forever; somehow couldn’t see EXODUS, which I thought to be a cryptic definition not knowing of another book with that name. New for me: ROAN, CHEW THE FAT, LODEN, NO-FAULT. Liked OLIVE (a great find, if original), HALF BOARD, LEST WE FORGET, SOUNDPROOF, FLOTILLA, ANGLOPHILE. Thanks Vulcan and Eileen!

44. Layman@43 Congratulations!

45. Mig@44: thanks!

46. miserableoldhack @8

    Totally agree. The clue makes sense as a cryptic one, not as a double definition where one has to parse with the rather unconvincing book=exodus.

47. I only know TRAINBAND from the John Gilpin poem: they were the amateur territorial volunteers of their day: think of John Gilpin as an eighteenth century Captain Mainwaring.

48. Enjoyable puzzle but possibly difficult in parts for beginners?

    I did not completely understand the Margaret Thatcher reference in 7d although I supposed she used her handbag as a weapon somehow.

    New for me: TRAINBAND, LODEN.

49. Tougher than usual for Vulcan I thought. Got about 3/4 of the way through and that was it. Heartening to read here that I was not alone in never having heard of trainband or loden.

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen

50. « Trainband ». Brought to mind Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis in Some Like it Hot- hilarious film, one of my favourites. How did Marilyn Monroe manage to play it so straight?
    Thank you Eileen , for your insights, as usual.

51. I thought this was something of a superior effort from Vulcan, my favourites were EXODUS, COURTESIES and CAPTAINED.

    [I remembered LODEN from many years ago when I was a young bag carrier and the “mandarin” I was working for took me on two lengthy traipses around Paris so he could have a loden coat fitted and, on our next trip a fortnight later, to collect it. I never knew what the old buffer meant by loden, and now I do.]

52. Chardonneret @50
    Apparently, Billy Wilder told Curtis and Lemmon “whenever Marilyn gets it right, we print it”.

53. I agree with Shanne@13, and I reckon an easy Vulcan is becoming rarer as his alter egos (Vulcan and Imogen) seem to become ever less distinguishable. Not a complaint, much to enjoy from a true master under whatever name.

54. Chardonneret@50 Band on a train — good one! And yes, a great movie!

55. […which brought to mind FESTIVAL EXPRESS, a documentary about a music festival that travelled across Canada by train, including The Band, Janis Joplin, The Grateful Dead, and others. Great footage of them jamming on the train…]

56. poc@24 raises an interesting question: if not ANGLOPHILE, what would be the proper term for a friend/lover of the British? Britophile? Britannophile? Cymroscotoanglophile?

57. Interesting question, Coloradan @56. The problem is that “anglophile” derives from the settling Angles (and Saxons), who only colonised upwards from the south and east of Britain; the west and north were regarded as “the Celtic fringes”. So “Angles” doesn’t include all of Britain.

    I quite like Cymroscotoanglophile.

    Of course it is quite possible to like the English, but not the Celts, or vice versa. The French seemed to be the latter.

58. SPLASH (singular) turns up in today’s Quick Crossword, with a similar double definition clue.

59. Chardonneret @50 [Whenever the Duke Ellington band toured the southern states they used a Pullman sleeper train to avoid the Jim Crow restrictions of the south.]

60. Coloradan@56 – Faragophobe?

61. Coloradan@56 Ukophile?

62. Thanks muffin for the background, Hadrian for the smile, and Mig for concision. I guess my fav is Britannophile for the euphony 😄

63. Thx V, & thx, E. Loden was not only new to me, but turns out to be handy: now I know what that lovely old overcoat in my wardrobe is made of.

    Here’s my limerick (at http://www.oedilf.com) take on 2D:

    OK. So you’ve studied Adam in the first book of the Bible. Now, read on…

    Second: Exodus. Slaves persevered,
    Wanting out, but old Pharaoh just sneered.
    So their bro (call him Mo)
    Goes like, “Yo! Let us go!”
    After that, it all gets kind of weird.

64. The Israelites wanted their freedom,
    but Pharaoh neglected to heed ’em.
    Disasters combined
    to change the dude’s mind.
    Then he said “After all, I don’t need ’em”.

65. Tim C@25: I’ve no reason to doubt the professionalism of the Chambers lexicographers. Be that as it may, my point is that the issue could have been avoided with no loss to the clue by simply substituting English for British.

66. My thoughts exactly!

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