Guardian 29,803 / Serenos

94 comments on “Guardian 29,803 / Serenos”

1. Thanks Serenos and Eileen
   Good start. I didn’t see where the HI in 1d came from – excellent clue. INSALUBRIOUS another favourite.
   I too wasn’t convinced by HEAVE = “project”; I suppose it’s as in “heave a brick”? (As in the joke alphabet that starts “A is for ‘orses”.)

2. Thank you, Eileen. I needed your sorting out of jovial which I now admire even more.

   Not too convinced by spy = GRASS, however.

   Notwithstanding this trivial quiblet, I really enjoyed this puzzle and look forward to seeing more of Serenos.

3. Tick for GANDHI first up, but a bit downhill from there I’m afraid. OCCLUDED FRONT and OLDHAM ATHLETIC both too obscure for my taste, and quite a few went in unparsed with a shrug – thanks for the blog, much needed. Is a grass box really a thing? Not to me and google doesn’t turn up much.

4. …and another thing…I always thought the word was ceramicist rather than ceramist, but perhaps both are allowed.

5. I found this quite hard, but some of the clues were very satisfying in the end. I wasn’t initially convinced by the definition of CERAMIST, but it seems to be fine. Having not conquered the wordplay, I was also held up by SAUTERNES and was looking for something more unequivocally plural – annoying for someone with a wine qualification. The ROAST BEEF ballad is a new one on me and – call me a philistine – but I’m not going to listen to it. My LOI was ACTUAL.

   I liked OLDHAM ATHLETIC, AVOCET, OVERSTATEMENT and OCCLUDED FRONT. (It’s not a vowel bias.)

   Welcome to Serenos, thank you to Eileen (you cleared up one I hadn’t parsed fully – GANDHI)

6. I loved this. The surfaces were so entertaining. The clues for Oldham Athletic and Gandhi were intricate and clever, I thought. In addition Mahatms Gandhi was from Gujurat. K@3 there is a grass box on the front of my lawnmower. Thanks to Eileen and bravo Serenos!

7. khayyam @3
   A GRASS BOX is the container on the front of a lawnmower that catches the cuttings.

8. I loved this. The surfaces were so entertaining. The clues for Oldham Athletic and Gandhi were intricate and clever, I thought. In addition Mahatma Gandhi was from Gujurat. K@3 there is a grass box on the front of my lawnmower. Thanks to Eileen and bravo Serenos!

9. khayyam @3 – GRASS BOX is certainly a thing here in the UK: Collins – ‘a container attached to a lawn mower that receives grass after it has been cut’.

   William @4 – CERAMIST is the first version that Collins gives.

10. khayyam @3: if you search lawnmower GRASS BOX in Google images you’ll see dozens. Depending on the design, it’s either called a grass box or grass bag. Perhaps it’s a Brit thing.

11. Liked OLDHAM ATHLETIC, NEPTUNE, PRESS RELEASE, GANDHI, HEADSHOT and THETA.

    Good puzzle. Thanks Serenos.
    Excellent blog. Thanks Eileen.

12. For HEAVE/project I was thinking of projectile vomiting, that spectacular thing, starting with a heave, that many parents of toddlers will have experienced.

13. Eileen @9: fair enough, thanks.

14. Welcome, Serenos, and thanks, Eileen! A pleasantly challenging debut. For those too young to know, a GRASS BOX was (is?) a receptacle for cut grass on a roller lawn mower. And now I’m proustily remembering the smell of a warm summer day … (EDIT: I see this point has been made many times already!)

15. Tough but really nice clueing, and satisfying to finish (I was staring at SAUTERNES for a long time, my LOI). Like Eileen, I look forward to Serenos’s next offering.

16. MattS @12 – that thought did occur to me: I remember it well. 😉

17. Like William @13, I took HEAVE and “project” in terms of vomiting, although more of a ‘Ralph’, definitely a ‘George’ and a remote possibility of a ‘Ruth’. I found it a bit of a long bow but projectile vomiting does raise its ugly head.
    I did wonder why “hi” was equal to ‘two’ and just took ‘successors’ as relating to the definition. Your explanation, Eileen, reveals the brilliance of the &lit clue, which is why it is my COTD.

18. The C at the end of 5/26 comes from the first letter of CHESS, rather than from CLUB, I think.

19. Tough puzzle. I failed to solve 25ac and I couldn’t parse 13ac apart from IN=popular, 3d apart from the def is sweet drinks, 14d apart from [p]RESEN[t].

    New for me: OCCLUDED FRONT; CERAMIST (but I am familiar with ‘ceramicist’); “The Roast Beef of Old England”, an English patriotic ballad; AMSTERDAM = novel by Ian McEwan; TRIDENT = nuclear missile; OLDHAM ATHLETIC AFC.

20. Really enjoyed this, especially GANDHI and Shakespeare’s ghost.
    Thank you to Serenos and Eileen.

21. Thanks all, happy to accept grass box is what it’s called in the UK, just that usually google turns that sort of thing fairly quickly! What I got instead was strange squares of grass for your dog to do their thing in, which seemed an unlikely definition!

22. Andrew Sceats @18 – thank you. Corrected now.

23. MattS@12 Projectile vomiting is the connection I made, too.
    Thanks to Eileen and Serenos.

24. Thanks Serenos and Eileen

    An interesting debut

    Eileen, I think that the definition in 3 should be extended to include ‘sweet’: Sauternes is a sweet dessert wine, and otherwise ‘sweet’ doesn’t seem to be doing anything.

25. In 9ac I took tune as a verb meaning “create harmony”. Wasn’t sure which ballad, and didn’t know the novel, but no great matter. Pleasant solve, welcome Serena’s, and thanks as ever Eileen.

26. Quite right, Simon S @24. That was a careless slip in transposing. I’ll correct it now – but there may be a delay: after a promising start, with no holdups, I’m now getting the dreaded database error message again

27. Saw with dread it was a new setter and didn’t get a single clue on first pass! Then Gandhi popped into my head and everything just flowed from there. Very enjoyable with clever clueing and I look forward to Serenos’s next appearance. Thanks to him and to Eileen. I always enjoy your blogs, Eileen.

28. I’d agree with Simon S @24 ref sweet SAUTERNES.

    A very enjoyable debut from the delightful first clue, which I was delighted to see my way through, to the neatly done Greek letter at the end. And some lovely surfaces throughout which I very much appreciated.

    Another small tweak, Eileen. I think ‘from America’ is giving the solver an adjectival US to be deleted from (us)UAL in ACTUAL. Otherwise ‘from’ is not doing anything.

    Thanks both

29. Damn, I corrected Serena’s to Serenos, but amid the error thingies it undid.

    So, thanks and welcome Serenos, and do come again 🙂

30. Welcome, Serenos! A fine debut. Lots of clues with excellent surfaces, my favourites being INSALUBRIOUS, ROAST BEEF and OVERSTATEMENT.

    The only I couldn’t parse was NOVEL, but I’ve always been a literary ignoramus. Thanks for explaining, Eileen.

31. There is a theme apparently ? According to a comment on the guardian website.. any ideas?

32. ginf @25 – I took it as in tune =in harmony but I think it works either way.

    @Thanks, PostMark @28 – I’ll add a note to the blog (when I can).

33. Always good to see a new setter and this didn’t disappoint. It was difficult, but I got off to a good start with the brilliant GANDHI and GRASS BOX. I also enjoyed the Jovial references, HEADSHOT, PRESS RELEASE, OPERETTA and the amusing OLDHAM ATHLETIC. INSALUBRIOUS was a toughie but it eventually dropped with NOVEL and AVOCET last in. What a lovely debut, more please.

    Ta Serenos & Eileen.

34. For HEAVE I had a remembered image of someone tossing or heaving or indeed projecting the enormously long and heavy piece/trunk of wood that is a caber at a recent Cowal Highland Games. Taking a great deal of grunting and effort…

35. Saw GANDHI almost immediately and liked it a lot. Wasn’t convince by HEAVE=project but otherwise a fairly interesting puzzle. I had heard of the ballad, I think in Patrick O’Brian’s Aubrey and Maturin books, though I’ve never actually listened to it.

36. I don’t think I’ve ever got such positive vibes from a new setter: the sheer brilliance of GandHI, the sweet succinctness of OFF ICER, the lovely surface imagery of the wild crocuses,… More, please!

37. An enjoyable introduction to a new setter, though I didn’t know the NOVEL, or that an OCCLUDED FRONT was liable to produce lightning. Like others, I failed to equate HEAVE with project, and thought it was CERAM(ic)IST. GANDHI was brilliant.

38. The printed version of the puzzle clued 11 as ‘Raise up to give endless bliss’. I’m not sure ‘project’ was much of an improvement! Otherwise, like others, very much enjoyed it.

39. “Raise up” works for me (as in heaving the anchor). Apart from a few vaguely nautical references (NEPTUNE, TRIDENT OLD SALT, OFFICER?) I can’t see any possible theme, and only one person at the Guardian claims to have found one.

40. In my newspaper Crossword 11 across is given as “Raise up to give endless bliss “.Seems more apposite than “project.”

41. Pretty good response for a new setter.
    I thought JOVIAL was a misprint at first until I realized that Jovial (ie upper case J) case) can be the same as Jovian
    But what would I know
    Thanks Serenos and Eileen

42. Splendid debut, with many clever constructions and good surfaces. I particularly liked OLDHAM ATHLETIC and the link to OLD SALT, and the clues for OCCLUDED FRONT and INSALUBRIOUS.

    G AND H,I has been used before, but this is a particularly good version of the trick.

    3d doesn’t quite work for me. Why ‘drinks’ when SAUTERNES is the singular form, as Martin @5 notes? But my real problem is that ‘fries’ should give SAUTÉS – even Chambers doesn’t give ‘sautées’ as an alternative! Am I missing something?

    Thanks to Serenos and Eileen

43. Edgar, Gladys and Scouse 49 – comments 38-40

    That’s interesting – I hadn’t spotted that. Since I was blogging, I downloaded the puzzle during the night and copied and pasted the ‘Print’ version to use for the blog. It never occurred to me to check my paper when it arrived at 6.45! Like Edgar, I can’t really see that it makes much difference.

    Protase @42 – I wasn’t very happy with SAUTERNES, either.

44. Edgar and Scouse 49 are with me in using a paper version. I preferred “raise up” to “project”. The paper also had “pulling string” in 19 down instead of “ensconced” but that wasn’t helpful at all. Many thanks to Eileen for the blog, especially the reason why a jovial brother was Neptune. Welcome to Serenos too.

45. Much to enjoy here and a good workout for my brain first thing in the morning. I was dubious of HEAVE until I had all the crossers, and my thesaurus does list “project” as a synonym. I had not heard of the ballad, but the construction was straightforward enough.

    Welcome Serenos and thank you Eileen

46. A Sauturnes wine is name after the district in France, Sauturnes, where it comes from, hence Sauturnes is both the singular and plural form. If you talk about Sauturne, you probably mean an inferior Californian wine copy.

47. Very pleasant to encounter a new setter. Even more pleasant to see Eileen’s name as I really needed the blog today: a hefty proportion of my responses were semi-parsed/unparsed Crossed-Finger-Entries. I’d not heard of OCCLUDED FRONT, nor the novel, nor the ballad, and couldn’t completely untangle INSALUBRIOUS and ACTUAL.
    Like others, I’m not entirely sure about grass & spy.
    GANDHI was clever, OLDHAM ATHLETIC & OLD SALT made me grin.
    (The latter also reminded me of the comment that the Ancient Mariner would have made a rotten goalkeeper: he stoppeth one of three.)
    Profound thanks to Eileen, and welcome to Serenos.

48. I do hope that Serenos looks in. I don’t remember a new compiler being welcomed so positively!

49. I enjoyed it, eventually. But a lot of it does not follow the tradition of definitions being findable in Chambers, such as GRASS=SPY and HEAVE-PROJECT.

50. Big welcome to Serenos – I really enjoyed this quirky puzzle, which kept surprising me. I was amused at the sexy teacher and the press release, and the idea of projectile vomiting followed by bliss (better out than in!) I specially loved the image of the new son and heir being presented, adorned with wild crocuses.
    Thank you Eileen for your always excellent blog, and for showing me how to parse OVERSTATEMENT -doh!

51. My initial thought on unscrambling 22a was: Isn’t almost anything the name of a NOVEL (likewise song, band name), but the clue is so neat and tidy I think it works well. Nice debut.

52. In addition to the differences in the paper version already referred to, it also has “Comedian from America…..” for 25 ac.
    No “perhaps”.

53. Welcome Serenos,

    A good mix of clues both in style and difficulty. Looking forward to the next one.

    Lots of good ones but my favourite today was Oldham Athletic

    Thanks Serenos and Eileen

54. Dr WhatsOn @51 — well, yes… but the trick is to find a novel that you can prefix with the word ‘New’ to make a coherent surface and therefore a satisfyingly misleading clue. ‘New Trainspotting, for instance’ wouldn’t work quite so well! 😁

55. Liked it a lot, especially the excellent &lit GANDHI and OLDHAM ATHLETIC, but also many other cleverly constructed clues/surfaces. A great beginning; thanks Serenos and Eileen!

56. Excellent debut! A big smile for old salt being used to cure Oldham and also for Old Hamlet as the ghost (I got those two in reverse order). More ticks for GANDHI, the elegant surfaces for NOVEL and THETA, and the clever definition of NEPTUNE (another I got in reverse order). DNF because of GRASS BOX–tried GRASS POT and gave up trying to guess the UK word for it (I’ve used those but it seems like we call them lawnmower bags or maybe grass bags).

    As far as themes go, AVOCET is a missile as well as TRIDENT and NEPTUNE I guess, though since Trident was clued as a missile and Neptune and Trident are related anyway that’s pretty tenuous.

    Thanks and welcome Serenos, and thanks Eileen!

57. I’m with Edgar et al in using the newspaper. That clue definitely works better. I wonder why they changed it?

58. RobT@54 Yes that’s what I meant, if not what I said!

59. Heave….project as to throw?

60. TimC @46: Googling SAUTERNE just gives hits to various brands of ‘Sauterne Cooking Wine’. So these SAUTERNES are not ‘drinks’, unless you’re desperate!
    I take your point that the plural would be the same as the singular, but it seems unnecessary. Though it does serve to make the clue easier to solve – it flagged up that the solution ends in S.

61. I’m another who would always say ceramicist rather than the alternative. Defeated in the end by ACTUAL so a dnf. Not sure why – “comedian perhaps” should have led me to “act”. Also didn’t get the jovial thing (must try remember jovial=jovian). Thanks to new setter and Eileen.

62. I don’t agree that TUNE and HARMONY are equivalent. [ I’ve often wondered how many solvers here buy the paper. Judging by the comments today it’s 5 out of 62 if I’ve counted right.]

63. Zoot @62 I took tune as a verb – to CREATE harmony – as in tune a piano

64. Zoot @62
    You can count me as another who buys the paper, but I usually do the crossword on a printout so that I’m not stopping the rest of the family from reading the paper.
    I took TUNE as did ColinN @63.

65. muffin@64 [ I knew there’d be others who bought the paper. It wasn’t a scientific survey. I was just curious. So many posters talk about a free crossword.
    To me the verb to tune means bring up to pitch. That’s what a piano tuner does.]

66. Yet another enthusiastic welcome to Serenos, enjoyed the puzzle. I’d never heard of Oldham Athletic either, but the wordplay was clear enough.

    New Amsterdam, or Nieuw Amsterdam, is the original name of the city that is now New York, when the city and the Hudson Valley were a Dutch colony under Governor Pieter Stuyvesant. Many names in the region are still Dutch, including Amsterdam Avenue in the city itself, the town of Amsterdam upstate and the many brooks or rivers called the something-kill.

    I think “grass” = “spy” in the sense of “informer,” the mole in the gang.

    How secure is a security door if all you have to do to open it is press “release”?

    muffin, what is the comic alphabet song with “heave a brick”? I remember A for
    ‘orses, B for lamb, C for yourself, but where does the brick come in?

    Why is everybody saying the grass box is on the front of the mower? It”s on the back, where the mower throws it.

    The Roast Beef of Old England isn’t a ballad, whatever somebody calls it. A ballad is a song that tells a story. I do recognize the poem, and also know the broadside “The Hard Times of Old England,” which I suppose is derived from it. The chorus goes “Oh, the hard times of Old England, In old England very hard times.” Here’s a link to it, as sung by Steeleye Span. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sca_esv=6857b87e1d1cb9cd&q=hard+times+of+old+england+lyrics&si=AMgyJEv17PWw0XQW3IlwXAKl7dSlPQF61q4qYdeyP6OamT3IFLvfsHCnTLI6T2AU5LF_XJ4Aj8byPsFN8uHIucfSy7mTrt2lc50M9BPy1jn3tQy_Whywz0c8mEC7duPy7HCLmWoAwRkgW74tmX05K5Ui8c7svShYYSgPd7NTnRpmXub_ICVEbas%3D&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFl-n_ouKPAxXSlYkEHQ8fN9kQjukCegQIHRAC&ictx=1&biw=1280&bih=689&dpr=1.5 (I’m sorry the link is so long, but I can’t find the instructions for adding one.)

    I also know the song a friend of mine sings rather like “Roast Beef,” which similarly contrasts honest English provender with the effete productions of France. It’s called “Bacon and Eggs,” and compares that hearty English breakfast with the insubstantial and inferior Continental “Coffee and Rolls.” As in Roast Beef, alternate verses praise the one and disparage the other. I can’t find the words to it on the net, so now I have to ask my friend where he found it.

    I do hope that link works. Thank you Serenos (and many more of ’em) and praise and delight as ever to Eileen.

67. [Valentine @66
    E for brick
    Not one of the best – my favourite is O for a nice cup of tea!]

68. [Valentine@66: if you’re on desktop, highlight your text, press the “link” button above the box where you type the text, and then paste the URL in. Or you can type it out by hand, as <a href=”https://pastetheURLhere.com”>link text here</a>.]

    [muffin@67: I don’t think they’re official, but I’ve always liked R for mo and P for idious Albion!]

69. Very good debut.
    OLDHAM ATHLETIC was very good. Having worked out the second word, I was horrified to think the first could be CHARLTON until I saw the numeration.
    GANDHI was good too, I initially overlooked the great man as I always put the H in the wrong place.
    JOVIAL related to JUPITER was new to me too.
    Unconvinced by HEAVE.
    Thanks Eileen.

70. Great crossword. Oldham Athletic my favourite.

71. The paper version also omits ‘perhaps’ from the clue at 25, making it a bit of a stretch. Agreed a very good start from the new kid. Thanks both.

72. Someone earlier mentioned A for ‘orses (the first letter of the cockney alphabet): the fifth letter is E for brick (heave a brick) so nothing wrong with heave and raise up (I’m not Cockney but did grow up in Southend ).

73. Thanks both,
    We are in the process of giving up the printed copy of the Guardian because of the latest price hike. We have instead subscribed to the digital edition. The version of the crossword shown in the Guardian Editions App is the same as the printed version but you need the web version to do the crossword online.

74. [matt w@68: Also not official, but when in a Satre-esque frame of mind I go for “n for c’est les autres”]

    Nothing to add to the excellent comments except a welcome for the new setter. I worried as I went through unable to get much on a first pass. I wonder if I’d not noticed it was a new setter if I’d have had a different attitude. Impossible to run the experiment I guess.

    Valentine@66: I think Eileen is thinking of the sort of door which requires a pass card to get into but only a button press to get out of, so you cannot be locked in. And grass boxes depend on the type of mower. Mowers with a big spinning blade underneath (rotary type) fling the grass backwards. Roller mowers, with a rolling blade like a planer (the ones which leave stripes on the grass) throw the grass forwards.

75. Valentine @66
    On mowers, this is a classic example of a roller-mower with the box on the front. Those that collect at the back use bags rather than boxes.

76. Oofey@71, old bean, the printed version at least has a question mark at the end to indicate DBE in part of the clue. But the online version is clearer.

77. Thanks Serenos for an excellent crossword. I revealed the ‘BOX’ of GRASS BOX, a new term for me but all else made sense. My top picks were ROAST BEEF, OVERSTATEMENT (great surface & sadly true), RESENTFUL, OPERETTA, and AVOCET. Thanks Eileen for the blog.

78. A highly competent debut puzzle, suggestive of an established setter working under a new alias. The only things I wasn’t completely happy with were GRASS/spy and HEADSHOT/selfie. All the rest is somewhere between very good and brilliant, GANDHI is an instant classic. Look forward to more from this setter.

79. muffin @ 75 my rotary mower has a grass box at the back

    Valentine @ 66 a security door can be one that opens from one side only, so you can’t open it from outside but just need to press the release bar from the inside.

80. Re HEAVE, there was the Punch cartoon (connection with 1a) which went:
    “Who’s ‘im, Bill?”
    “A stranger!”
    “ ‘Eave ‘arf a brick at ‘im.”
    Many thanks Serenos and Eileen.

81. I found this one really tough, with eleven unsolved and a couple unparsed (13a INSALUBRIOUS, 1d GANDHI (agree with Eileen and others that this was a clever clue!)). Surfaces were generally excellent, with a lot of clever misdirection (like 14d RESENTFUL). Impressive debut from Serenos (and lucky to have their first puzzle blogged by Eileen! 🙂 )

    8d MOTORIST is probably my favourite clue, and I failed to solve it! A great surface that tells a story. Also 19d CLERIC (I stared at “motorcycle rickshaw” for a long time!)

    17a PRESS RELEASE was something my old piano teacher said to me many years ago!

    1a I was trying on GLASS (as in spyglass)

82. Here’s what I have on file for the Cockney alphabet. There are probably other versions…
    A for ‘orses (hay for horses)
    B for mutton (beef or mutton)
    C for yourself (see for yourself)
    D for dumb (deaf or dumb)
    E for brick (‘eave a brick)
    F for vescence (effervescence)
    G for police (Chief of Police)
    H for it (‘ate yer for it – [hate you for it])
    I for looting (high-faluting)
    J for oranges (Jaffa oranges)
    K for a cuppa (cafe for a cuppa)
    L for leather (hell for leather)
    M for sis (emphasis)
    N for eggs (hen for eggs)
    O for my dead body (over my dead body) (or O for a cup of tea)
    P for whistle
    Q for everything
    R for mo (‘arf a mo’)
    S for you (as for you…)
    T for two (tea for two)
    U for mism (euphemism)
    V for la France (vive la France)
    W for a pound (double you for a pound)
    X for breakfast (eggs for breakfast)
    Y for girlfriend (wife or girlfriend)
    Z for his hat (his head for his hat)

83. Mig @82
    A better pair I’ve heard is
    T for two
    U for me
    There are lots of variants, of course

    Lord Jim @80
    “Half a brick” is called a brickbat. I’ve no idea why!

84. Nice.
    Welcome Serenos.

    PRESS RELEASE was beautiful

85. Mig & muffin

    Some from the one I know

    C for thailanders (Seaforth Highlanders)
    K for tearier (cafeteria)
    N for mation (information)
    P for relief (pee for relief)
    Q for a P (queue for a pee)

    There are no doubt oodles more.

86. [Mig@82: Very nice. Enjoying all of these! At first my reaction was “Zephyr his hat?” Q is short for “thank you”? I confess I don’t get P, though my guess is it’s a Paulian reference.]

    [JoFT@74: That’s great, I need to tell my wife when she gets home.]

    As for the security door per JoFT@74 and Valentine@66, I was envisioning the kind of emergency exit that you have to press the release on for a few seconds to open.

87. matt w @86
    A traditional Acme Thunderer referee/schoolmaster whistle has a pea in it!

88. Brilliant debut Serenos, and a big welcome here.
    Everybody has as usual said everything I thought of saying (including thoughts of ditching the paper guardian due to recent price hike) and even dug up the Steeleye Span link but it was a great read – many thanks to Serenos, Eileen and all the commentators.

89. Brilliant debut Serenos, and a big welcome here.
    Everybody has as usual said everything I thought of saying, and even dug up the Steel Eye Span link but it was a great read – many thanks to Serenos, Eileen and all the commentators.

90. matt w @86, Queue for everything!

91. Muffin@87, Mig@90 Thanks! or should I say algebraically 5q + 5q

92. Muffin@83
    “Brickbat” has been around for quite a while. There’s a well-known (i.e. I’ve heard of it) law report of a prisoner who “ject le brickbat a le dit justice que narrowly mist”. I was surprised to find on checking that the case was as late as 1631. I thought Law French had died out long before then.

93. C for miles
    O for the wings of a dove
    Q for a song?

94. My father’s Suffolk PUNCH lawnmower had its box on the front. I must say I thought it was a CD but couldn’t find a Spy lawnmower.

    Much enjoyed the half I completed and also most of the half I failed to!

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