This post is for the discussion of general crossword related matters and other topics of interest.
Comments posted before 9/9/20 can be found here.
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159 comments on “General Discussion”
Comments are closed.
Comments posted prior to 9/9/2020 can be found here.
Rebster at 61 in the previous bunch asked for an app that will jumble the letters of a word or phrase so we can find our own anagrams by shifting letters. If we do that on paper, we have to write the letters of the original entry time and again.
This has been a desideratum of mine for years. I had even asked a software developer of a crossword compiling program if he could create one but he did not evince interest in that though his prpgram for setting a puzzle was good.
Several years ago by google-searching with different terms I found just just such a program. It is called Anagram Helpere and is for Ios. At the moment I don’t have my iPad with me and I am sorry I am unable to give any link to the program.
But today I landed on a program that works on PC Windows.
The link: http://www.gottfriedville.net/puzzles/anagram/index.htm
It is not very good but you can give it a try.Ā In the one for IoS, it is much easier to move the tiles and has an elegant interface. Try searching with the term “anagram helper”.
Rishikesh
There is an app for android called Letterslate which also presents movable tiles. The user interface is a little clunky but it’s free and it does the job. I use it all the time.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bsapps.letterslate
Tony Collman
Thanks much for your response. I downloaded the app on my android phone. Looks fine. The tiles (at eight per line) are big and the letters are clear. However, I am not able to “slide” the tiles. The reason for the app that the developer gives in the notes is exactly why we look for such an app. The usual anagram finders are only as good as the in-built dictionary. Whereas I might want to have anagrams with Indian words in common use in speech and writing in India and see what other word I can make with remaining letters. .
I don’t know where the incompatibility lies as the app does not function on my mobile.
Any hint on how to move the given tiles around? “Tap on/Touch tile and move” I did but to no effect.
Rishi (my name for short)
Rishi did you click the “hide keys” button after entering your letters. You can only slide tiles after doing so
Thanks a ton, Imatfaal.
I studied the effect of the Hide button but not after I entered the tiles.
So we enter the tiles, press the Hide button to be able to move the letters.
I don’t know if this instruction has been given anywhere. Some text in all caps and blue were there, but I, at 77 years of age, with a cataract in one eye (to be operated on soon) and with black background on the mobile screen, could not read it at all.
I am grateful for the app.
Rishi, sorry I didn’t get to your query earlier, but it looks like Imatfaal has given you the help you needed. The user interface is a bit awkward and not intuitive but is ok once you get used to it. Once you’ve finished with one set of letters, you can press “Show” at bottom left, which will bring back the keyboard and allow entry of more letters. Before you enter more letters you may well want to remove those you have been playing with, which you can do using the “Clear” key at bottom right. You will be asked to confirm that.
If you have any further queries, you can contact the developer, Chris Miller, at badsignapps@gmail.com. This email address can be found under “Developer contact” on the Play Store page for the app.
Rishi, btw, the blue-on-black writing on the tile-size selection page says “CHANGING TILE SIZE WILL REMOVE EXISTING TILES”.
Thanks.Tony.
If anyone has come here looking for the “Increase in Comments” discussion, it’s here
Could someone please explain to me why we’re not supposed to comment on Inquisitor puzzles until ten days after they’re published?Ā I only started doing them relatively recently, and I understand that pre-Covid there was a prize; but there hasn’t been one for several months, so it seems an unnecessary restriction at the moment.
Guy Barry @11
Due to the nature of the Inquisitor puzzles, the bloggers need time to solve and then write their posts so publication of the blogs could only be brought forward by a few days. When the Inquisitor ceased to be a prize puzzle (at least temporarily), its editor suggested that we retain the traditional publication date, which we have done. In fact the same applies to all other ex-prize puzzles covered on this site.
Gaufrid @12
Thanks.Ā I understand the historical reasons for the schedule, but as a novice solver I find them very frustrating.Ā Typically I’ll have a draft solution ready two or three days after the publication date, but no way of checking it.Ā By the time it gets round to the Tuesday of the following week I may have forgotten how I solved it.Ā I’ve just finished solving #1667 and I still haven’t had a chance to discuss the solution to #1666, which isn’t due out until tomorrow morning.
I’ve been writing all my solutions up on my personal blog site so that I’ve got a record I can compare when the answer’s finally revealed, but it’d be valuable to be able to discuss the solution while it’s still fresh in my mind.Ā Unless there are plans to reinstate the prize some time soon, I can’t see any harm in posting draft solutions in advance of the “official” date.Ā Would it be in order for me to post a link to my solution as soon as I’ve solved the puzzle?
Guy Barry @13
I’m sorry that our schedule makes you feel frustrated but I don’t anticipate any change to it in the foreseeable future. As for posting a link to your solution, where would you put it? There won’t be an appropriate post available until our scheduled blog appears.
Gaufrid @14
No, I suppose not.Ā I’m finding the Inquisitors a bit of struggle anyway, and not very rewarding.Ā Maybe I’ll just stop doing them.
A bit late off the mark but thank you Rishi and Tony @3 and 4 – I now have apps on both the iPad and Android phone ?
Guy Barry,
Are you aware of the forums on the crossword clue solver site?
https://www.crosswordsolver.org/forum/?action=search&search=Inquisitor
Can be a good way to check answers or get hints to rekindle interest in a stuck puzzle.
dougalf @17
Yes, I am – in fact I usually rely on that forum to get started.Ā I try to glean as much information as I possibly can from the various questions and answers in the thread.Ā They usually try to give away as little as possible so it can be like solving a cryptic puzzle in itself!
The final step this week relied on recognizing a two-letter abbreviation for a pretty obscure Latin phrase, which I’m sure I’d never have worked out on my own.Ā It’s that sort of stuff that puts me off.Ā The solution to the last one looked like a grid full of gibberish and I spent ages staring at it looking for some sort of hidden message that wasn’t there.
I think they’re an acquired taste!
Guy, I tried the recent easier Enigmatic Variations and found the first 2 hugely frustrating. Standing back I see my mistake was trying to do without Chambers. PerhapsĀ also the case for the Inquisitor? I am consider buying the Chambers app and giving the next EV a try.
Meanwhile, how about the Spectator? Those I have enjoyed as I’m generally able to find any obscurities in online dictionaries.
dougalf @19
I only attempt the Inquisitor because I buy the paper anyway – I never go out of my way to buy a publication just to do the crossword.Ā I used to enjoy the Guardian crosswords when I bought the paper, but I can’t afford it any more.Ā I quite enjoy the daily crosswords in the “i”, and usually do some of their other puzzles as well, so for a change I thought I’d have a go at the Inquisitor.Ā There have been a couple of quite accessible ones recently (notably #1664, “Codenames”) but some really nasty ones as well, and I’m not familiar enough with all the individual setters to know which ones to avoid.
I don’t have Chambers, and I’m not sure why it’s necessary.Ā I have access to the OED online as well as other online dictionaries, and if I can’t find a word or a definition in there, then it really shouldn’t be in a crossword.Ā I came across two definitions in the latest puzzle that aren’t in the OED online, at least one of which one looks like an error to me.Ā If it turns out to be in Chambers then I’m pretty sure Chambers is wrong!
Gaufrid, I am writing in connection with a point made on the recently posted Comment Guidelines. (I wonder how many will actually make it to this comment from there?)
Regarding your reply to the suggestion to thread replies to comments, returning to the page and refreshing is not the best way to stay aware of incoming comments. You can set up a feed and get notified in a feed reader every time a comment is added to a particular post and then, with a single click/touch, be delivered to that very comment, wherever it appears.
Alternatively, there is a plugin for WordPress which allows commenters to subscribe to comments on a particular post, whereupon one receives an email notification every time another comment us added, again with the option of being taken to that very comment.
Both of these options also have the advantage that you don’t need to keep returning to the page just to see whether or not there are any new comments. People sometimes comment on puzzles weeks after the post covering it and nobody returns to the page without a prompt even a few days later, I’ll bet.
The great advantage of threaded comments is that it avoids the cumbersome necessity to flit about in the page finding the number and the correct spelling of the username on the comment one wishes to reply to. For those of us using mobile phones there is the added problem of no numbers appearing with the comments anyway. Of course one can move to the desktop view, but this is another barrier.
Tony @21
Thanks for your observations. I am aware of the various options but have reservations. Some people do not use, and do not want to use, a feed reader so this should remain optional. Also, I try to keep the number of plugins used on the site down to an absolute minimum. Apart from possible clashes between them, support for plugins tends to be short-lived and they have a tendency to break when WordPress is updated (as happened a month or so ago with a plugin that was being used to help control spam).
Over the years, quite a few people have asked me not to introduce threaded comments so they are clearly not liked by some. There is also the fact that the elderly theme the site uses was not designed and written to accommodate threaded comments. I have spent many hours searching for a modern, responsive theme that would meet our needs but each one I’ve tried has fallen short in one respect or another.
Thanks Gaufrid for all the work you do generally but particularly the recent undertaking with respect to comments and volume thereof. You got plenty of considered feedback too (no surprise there of course) and this was largely supportive of remaining with the status quo with little or no change. This is obviously a confirmation of what a fine job you do and what a great site 15^2 is.
I think you could support your minor tweaks (suggestion to include [square brackets] for off-topic) with that instruction by the post button and maybe a two-step process for completion of the post with the text of oneās post shown separately in a cancellable box which would allow edits to be made prior to the final submission step.
I also would like to repeat Tony@21s assertion that not having the numbers on the mobile version is a genuine inconvenience especially when the number of comments is so high. I have resorted in the past to counting comments which is prone to error and alternatively to switching to the desktop version which is very unsatisfactory on a mobile phone. Apologies if youāve answered that question many times before. For those users of the site who never use the mobile version, this will not resonate one bit but for those of us who do it is a frequent bugbear which makes the following of a thread in the conversations that much harder.
Ed The Ball @23
Thanks for your input. I am not sure that I understand your suggestion of a second edit box because I cannot see what it would do that cannot be done in a single editing box. I am planning to make some changes near the comment editor to remind people of the guidelines, but not this afternoon (as I had intended) because for some unknown reason the site and my dashboard are running somewhat slower than usual.
I agree that comment numbering when in mobile view is very desirable. We looked into this a couple of years or so ago but could find no satisfactory way of achieving it.
Gaufrid@24
My suggestion is just that a pause allowing us to briefly check over what weāve written might allow us to edit out typos and just take an extra breath before posting.
This, again, might be more of a help to those of us who are normally using a mobile device where navigation and self-review is more of a challenge: the top of longer entries disappears as you type and it is not so easy to scroll back up.
That is a shame about the numbering: I wish I could access the site on a proper computer more readily. I will have to live with the frustration I guess. It does surprise me that rendering each entry on the page cleverly as is already done, it would be such a stretch to e.g. adjust the field that is being rendered as the postās contributor handle to be changed to include the postās sequence number e.g. instead of rendering just āEd The Ballā we could render āEd The Ball (24)ā or similar.
Hope the servers speed up for you for making your changes.
I just tried to post on the John Dawson RIP thread twice, and the post did not appear. The first time, I thought I had forgotten to hit the ‘Post comment’ button. But the second time, my post also did not appear. Why?
michelle @26
For a reason I am unable to determine, your comments were intercepted by the spam filter. I have retrieved and posted the first one.
thank you, Guafrid
Hi hatter (and gsolphotog if you’re here too)
I did respond to your note on Friday re the Crosophile puzzle.Ā As you only mentioned solving times, I felt you might have been a little underwhelmed.Ā I didn’t recommend the puzzle so much for its toughness as the theme which I found delightful and which I haven’t seen as a concept before.Ā I have the impression you’re a pretty experienced solver so it may be you clocked it but didn’t think it worthy of comment – though that would mildly surprise.Ā So I’ve taken the liberty of checking you saw it – or heard it.Ā If, perchance, not I’d recommend a very swift glance at the comments section of the blog (here) (only a dozen comments in total) where you can actually see the penny dropping.Ā The setter pops in at the end to confirm/expand.Ā I had a completed grid with no real sniff of a theme and, for no reason whatsoever, CYPRESS got me thinking and then most of the theme (I missed two) rang out.
Of course, if you got and were unimpressed by the theme, I commended a dud and this has just wasted two minutes of your morning, which – added to the 28 minutes on Friday – makes for the round half hour, for which my apologies
PostMark @29. Thanks for the follow up, and apols for seeming underwhelmed. I didn’t want to comment too much about an Indy puzzle on a Guardian thread! I thought the theme idea was a good one, but that it was a little undercooked, both in that there were so few examples and that the theme had no relevance to the solving of the puzzle. I got Bryher before the setter came on to reveal the complete set, but I felt that there could have been so many more, rum and egg, for example, not to mention the obvious sky (which has been used in one of our cryptics recently as a homophone, I think) and white.
I did enjoy the clue for 14a, though. Isle of Man refuting no man is an island tickled me.
PostMark @29: Ā I donāt normally do the Indy, but after your comment on the G thread I thought Iād have a go.Ā Verdict:
– I found it a lot tougher than sheffield hatter, in fact it was a DNF for me as I never did get BEAUT
– like you Iād never seen a āhomophonisedā ghost theme before, and loved the idea, though as sh @30 says it could have been even better with more examples
– I thought Iād found another island at 6d: TETHERED Island Dithkth!
essxboy @31. You thould be taken out and thot!
Hi both
Iām honoured you both felt inclined to give the Crosophile a go on the basis of my recommendation and pleased the theme gave some pleasure.Ā I agree there could have been more themed entries ā though Iāve seen themed puzzles with fewer.Ā Egg and white (thereās a potential pun there) for sure; Rum was Rhum when I grew up and would have worked but it seems to have been renamed as straight Rum at some point so wouldnāt have worked and sky/Skye would probably have been the key that unlocked the theme if it was used.Ā Col/Coll is another possibility.
On a personal note, it was rather enjoyable to witness the gradual identification process on both Friday and Saturday evenings.Ā I wonāt revisit the Announcement and subsequent debate but an overview of all the contributions in both the discussion and subsequent blogs left me with the conclusion that, as Tyngewick put it, a slightly more laconic style would still allow me to be me.Ā It was kind of you and others to be welcoming.
Hatter, your wit was not missed by me but Iām not and never will be a Frank.Ā With no disrespect intended whatsoever to the legions of honourable and worthy Franks out there, to be candid, itās too direct for me, too much of the stamp of ancient Germansā¦ (Frankly, thatās quite enough synonyms for frank, Ed.)
PostMark
Does anyone know why the Print option for Guardian cryptics is now showing the dark squares in black when they’ve been grey until recently?
Grey’s a much better option for saving precious printer ink.
Trovatore @ 34: this point came up in the discussion on Monday’s Quiptic (comments 9, 23, 24).Ā If a few of us email the crossword editor about it, that might help get it sorted.
@35 Lord Jim,
Thanks for the heads up re the Quiptic blog — I do the puzzle but rarely look at the discussion.
I’ve mailed the editor and also userhelp@theguardian.com.
Maybe we need to get the message into the main Guardian cryptic discussion too??
Just did today’s Guardian cryptic (Vlad, 28272) and it seems we’re back to grey!
[This is a question which has probably been asked and answered before, although a search didn’t turn it up]
I am sort-of-a-newbie to cryptic crosswords, picking up in earnest from August (and have done one everyday). I am thinking of investing in the Chambers Dictionary. However, I live in a small house with limited shelf space. Therefore, I was wondering about the pros and cons of the Chambers Dictionary app.
Questions: is the app comprehensive (has everything that the print version has)? and is it updated when the edition changes?
In short, is the app something worthwhile to invest in, or is the deadwood version the way to go. Any help will be appreciated, and I am hoping I am asking in the right forum.
Adriana @38. Personally, I would recommend getting the app. I would also get the thesaurus app with it. It is cheaper than the print version, you get free updates and you can do word fit searches. As far as I know, the app is comprehensive. I downloaded these apps a few years ago and have never regretted it.
Hovis@39: thank you!
Adriana – I think it entirely depends on your personal relationship with technology compared to physical objects. Ā I cannot imagine serious crossword solving without turning the pages of Chambers, running my finger down the page and the entries, occasionally marvelling at odd words one meets by accident, and generally getting an almost tactile sense of the English language. Ā I do not for a moment regret the money I have spent on Chambers over the years, and it is one of the books I would take to a Desert Island alongside a supply of Azed crosswords. Ā An app does not appeal to me in remotely the same way – it feels functional rather than pleasurable, and I solve crosswords for pleasure. Ā But I donāt doubt that the app can be used to perform the same functions as the book, probably quicker, so it really is a matter of taste (and possibly generation, at least on my side!)
Adriana @38: it is not necessary to own a copy of Chambers, either in print or electronic, in order to solve cryptic crosswords.Ā I have been solving them for forty years and never once had any desire to buy a copy.Ā Other reference works are just as good.Ā Even for the “advanced” puzzles like the Inquisitor (which I’ve recently started doing) it’s been possible to find all the relevant information online, and sometimes it’s more accurate than Chambers.Ā For the most obscure words I have access to the OED Online, free of charge, via my local public library – I just type my library card number into the website.Ā I think most local authorities provide this service.
The English language belongs to us all, not to any particular commercial publisher.
Adriana @38
I agree with Sagittarius on the pleasures that we have in looking up words in print editions of dictionaries.
In the late 1960s when I began solving crosswords, it was a lone and lonely pastime and I did lot of thumbing through pages of Chambers, my favourite. Other dictionaries like COD were resorted to later.
One thing that is to be considered is the size of BRB as Chambers is called. Big Red Book. In my younger years I had no problem but as I became older and in the evening of my life and with a frail frame it became difficult to lift or to hold it. What I did was I took it to a binder and got my copy split into two parts, A to M and N to Z with back section. The binder did a pucca job, I am glad to say.
As Guy Barry suggests. if you have a good wi-fi connection, online references can be done easily. Resources are free to be had. (We need to be a bit judicious, though.) Nowadays I scarcely use the print editions of my dictionaries. But then I have had the Joy of Lex in my time.
Wow! Thanks everyone for your thoughts š
Hi Gaufrid
This may only be me but I’ve been getting quite a number of CloudFlare error messages over the last 24 hours.Ā Often struggling to refresh.Ā But it’s intermittent.Ā No one else seems to have raised it as far as I’m aware but, if it was my internet connection, that wouldn’t explain the CloudFlare message.Ā It’s saying it’s struggling at the fifteensquared server end of the connection.Ā Just thought you should know.
ATB
PostMark @45
It’s not just you! I am aware of the issue and have been trying since yesterday lunchtime to get the hosting company to resolve it, so far without success.
Good luck and thanks for coming back to me.Ā It just happened again – when I was trying to see if you’d replied – so I sent a screen grab to your email address.Ā But it looks as if you’re dealing with it.Ā Or, at least, doing your best.Ā Not the part of the job I envy.Ā (No reply needed.Ā You’re busy enough)
Postmark, it’s good that you’re helping, but you may not have realized that there is another page for site feedback.
MaidenBartok – my other half is the Julie July in the July July Band.Ā They’ve made a modest name for themselves on the folk rock circuit, initially with interpretations of the work of singer-songwriter Sandy Denny, subsequently with work of their own.Ā 2020 is the 50th anniversary of Sandy’s Fotheringay album and this year’s tour was to have included a concert second half devoted to performing the album in its entirety.Ā They’ve appeared at festivals such as Warwick, Bromyard, Cropredy Fringe and Field 8 (and, but for Covid, would have been at the Costa del Folk in Portugal earlier this month).Ā Here’s a couple of links if you’re at all interested.Ā https://juliejuly.co.uk/Ā https://www.facebook.com/juliejulyband/
Gaufrid @46, PostMark @45: Many hosted WordPress sites use Cloudflare as their CDN (to improve local response times) and if anything breaks between these two things go pear-shaped rather quickly.Ā On hosted WP sites 9/10 you don’t even know that they are using a CDN at all and it is only when users see an enigmatic error message that you know anything is wrong and there is the square-root of nothing you can do about as an admin except have your users moan at you…Ā Thankless task but thanks Gaufrid. Ā I run a few self-hosted WP sites and the last few WP updates have also been (ahem) pants which has not helped availability.
PostMark @49; Oh fab!Ā This is MY kind of music.Ā I live near the world capital of folk music(!), Lewes, and I’ve been known to loose several hours in various pubs listening to the roots of exactly this kind of music.Ā Ā I’m not a pro-musician other than I accompany a local choir occassionally and sing in (some number of) others, one on a pro-basis but I suppose I am “classically” trained whatever that means.
However, my life mantra is that music is like wine – you need to taste it all to know which you like and I intend be totally rodent-bottomed as soon as live music comes back.Ā Ā I did Cropredy many years ago, regularly do Celtic Connections, avid WOMADer and love the folk scene and the people in it who are good, kind, talented musos being badly let down by the barrow-boys and spivs in our current “government.”Ā If she is anything like other musicians I know, the lack of live performance and audience connection is feeling quite deep and personal – almost a loss.Ā Very difficult and totally mis-understood by HMG who think we are a nation of production-line worker-bees and nothing else.
As to “if you’re interested at all…”
1) That is a mighty fine album – “Lady of the First Light” is a corker.
2) Loving the Steam-Punk theme.Ā Very me.
3) Might see if I can get a few of my chums along to the Carshalton gig – provided we have the World’s Largest Vaccine by then.
David
MaidenBartok @50: what a delightful post and Julie was quite touched!Ā Doubt if Carshalton will happen with Covid but she didn’t have the heart to take down all the gigs off the page!Ā Really glad you like their own album as well as the Sandy material.Ā Working on a new one at the moment – though harder when everyone has to be distanced.Ā Even rehearsals are difficult – technically they’re all from different households – but can a get together be justified as work???
BTW, a chance to ask a personal question – what is the derivation of your pseudonym?Ā I (wrongly) assumed for a while that you were of feminine gender, given the Maiden element but realised, from hints in your posts, that I was in error.Ā The musical interest might suggest the second part is a nod to the Hungarian composer but I can’t see how the rest works out.
PostMark @51: It’s a simple portmantaeu of where I live (shortened) and the fact my son aged 5 used to shout “no more BARTOK” as I murdered Mikrokosmos for the umpteenth time [1].Ā I like that the “Maiden” bit gives the wrong gender impression because those who know me would say that at 6’1″ and built like an untended-for-decades outback dunny there is nothing even slightly lady-like about me.Ā It’s been a twitter handle for yonks so I thought I’d just carry it over when this <expletive deleted> cryptic bug bit hard on the 23rd March 2020.Ā It’s been fab to find such common ground with people on this forum – so many grammar pendants, lovers of word play and generally amazingly informed and intelligent people.Ā Love it.
I’ve been experimenting with Jamulus for over-t’Interweb for sessions of up-to 5 – it’s OK but you miss all the visual guides.Ā My pro chamber choir has just been told that the studio we had booked for the 20th and 21st November for recording (gaming backing tracks) has been postponed until “at least April” so that’s 32 singers, MD, producer and a mid-sized string band all out of work.Ā Again.Ā Ā For the pro group we’re classifying it as “work” and therefore none of the distancing rules apply (and we’re all the right-side of the very-bad-outcome age range) but for the community choirs where our average age can be up in the 70s/80s, it is a nightmare.
D
[1] My tastes are bizarre – Steve Reich, Philip Glass, Ligeti, Bartok, Bellowhead, Tinariwen, Debussy, Cambodian Space Project, Anna Meredith, Xenakis, et al. although other than Julie July I’ve got Fay Hield’s latest album on 11 in the study today…
I’ve never encountered anyone from Maiden Castle….Ā Or is it Maiden Newton in Dorset???
PostMark @53; I see we’ve made it to the list of “villages” which is bizarre for a housing estate that didn’t exist 25 years ago…
I’m sure someone much more knowledgable than me will enlighten me but that reminds me of the Tory bigwig who was touring inner-London schools and asked a particular urchin “Where do you live, boy?” “I live on an estate, sir” came the reply.Ā Ā “Oh? What’s the shooting like?”
MaidenBartok@54:
I hesitate to attribute any capacity for wit to a Tory bigwig, but is there any possibility that he or she was being not just ironic, but doubly ironic?
cellomaniac @55: I suppose all things are possible, but have you tried lighting a match on a wet bar of soap?
The November 4 Maskerade has a lot of unusual, obscure words requiring considerable knowledge of French, mythology, geography, certain sports, etc. This prompted comments (including Andrew in his blog), some critical, some neutral, about the amount of GK (General Knowledge) required for this puzzle.
Am I wrong in thinking that the term general knowledge in its ordinary sense means knowledge that a reasonably educated person should generally know? And that what people are complaining about is knowledge that they feel goes beyond the general?
If I am not wrong, then I respectfully suggest that the term GK is incorrect, and that it should be replaced by EK (Esoteric Knowledge).
Any thoughts?
cellomaniac @57: I suspect most cruciverbalists fall into the same category as one of my lecturers disparagingly put me – “a mind (qv) of useless information…”
On the Qaos thread yesterday (see #90) beery hiker posted a list of alphabetical jigsaws that are available in the Guardian archive. I’ve had a go at 21999 which is by Araucaria. It’s a bit tricky because the clues are on a separate page, so you have to keep flicking between two tabs (unless you have a printer š ). The crossword is based on a limerick, which I have been unable to find any provenance for, though (spoiler alert) this one uses the same rhyming scheme. If anyone else has a go, please post any comments here. (I’m three clues short of a complete grid at the moment.)
sheffield hatter @59 – Two screens helps (three screens even more because I can read email and therefore pretend to be at work).Ā Will give it a go later.
“…three clues short of a complete grid…”Ā Ā I’ve been called worse š
MaidenBartok – thanks for joining in. Good luck!
Just one sandwich short of a picnic now. š
…and got the final piece of the puzzle while walking to the pub (for the final time before Lockdown 2) this evening.
It was really good to solve an Araucaria that I don’t remember doing when it was published 20 years ago. Lots of deviousness and misdirection, and I still haven’t managed to recreate all of the limerick that runs through the puzzle in two different ways.
Thanks again to beery hiker for the research.
@SH
Haven’t got time to solve the Araucarua, but out of curiosity I had a look and I believe I have reconstructed the limerick as follows (look away now, anyone who wants to puzzle it out themself):
A certain old lady of Eastleigh
Read only the novels of Priestley
Every author before
She considered a bore
And everyone afterwards beastly.
Thanks Tony Collman @63. That was well worked out! I only got the first two lines and the final rhyme.
Folk here probably play Scrabble. What do you use on your phone for Scrabble. Words with Friends is an atrocity that adversely affects my mental health…there must be something better. Thanks.
I have just found the comments here about crosswords from long ago, and I have a question.
I seem to dimly remember 2 remarkable puzzles from my youth, one based on a bridge hand, with 2 26 entry grids and every card in the bridge hand represented. I can’t remember how it worked, but I’d love to find it again.
The other was even more unusual, being a tall narrow grid based on a particular peel in bell ringing. Again I don’t remember the details.
Any ideas about where I might find them?
(This is my first post on 15 squared, so if there is a better place to ask this question please re-direct me).
Willingale,
This one doesn’t quite fit the description, but may nevertheless appeal (pun intended):
https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/prize/26561
I know about it because that was the one where I won the competition, and I have the number written in the copy of ‘Secrets of the Setters’ which was my (clearly inappropriate) prize.
Thank you, Tony, I really enjoyed that, must have missed it first time as it does not ring a bell…
I should have added that the 2 puzzles I would like to trace date from around 1975/1985, in the Guardian or perhaps the Observer.
And of course I meant peal not peel.
[test to see if clearing all my history restores it remembering me]
Willingale @68,
My pleasure.
Nothing, for example, brought back containing ‘peal’ in the past? That should be something with ‘peel’ (6)
muffin @69
And?
Tony Collman @70: Think I’ve got the answer but isn’t there a repeated letter in the wordplay?
Along the same lines, how about “Peal with peel?” (7, 3, 6)
Guy @72, dang! So there is! O(RANG)<EG
I beg clemency (geddit?)
Tony @73: Oh very good!
Guy Barry@72
RINGING THE STRIP ?
There’s been some discussion in the last few days on the Guardian blogs about whether it’s ok to refer to clues/answers from a previous puzzle.Ā It’s been argued that this constitutes a spoiler for someone who hasn’t yet done that puzzle.
Para 4 of the Site Policy quite rightly prohibits the discussion of prize puzzles until after the closing date for entries.Ā But there is nothing in the Policy to forbid reference to previous puzzles generally.
Para 3 of the Policy says that comments about a specific puzzle “should, for the most part, be relevant to the puzzle under discussion”.Ā It can be highly relevant to the discussion of a clue to consider how original it is, whether it or something similar to it has been done before, and I think it’s totally reasonable to refer to earlier clues in this context.Ā It’s also interesting to hear about other commenters’ favourite clues from old puzzles if these are in some way relevant to a clue on the day.
If people choose to look at a blog for a puzzle later than one they haven’t yet done, I think they have to accept that there is a (probably slight) chance that they may come across a “spoiler” for that earlier puzzle.
Tony @71
Yes, it worked
Lord Jim @76. Thank you for echoing my thoughts on this subject almost exactly, in particular your final paragraph. I felt unable to write this myself because I was the miscreant who had spoiled two fellow solvers’ enjoyment of the previous day’s puzzle, and I would have been in danger of inflaming the situation. (Which I then went on to do anyway, accidentally-on-purpose.)
I enjoy the discussions below the blogs, especially when they go on to deal with contrasting styles of setters and bloggers, and what is allowed in cryptic grammar and whether clues really mean what they purport to mean. It would be a shame if all such discussions had to be conducted away from the particular blog that had prompted them.
Before all this blew up, I would have been surprised if I had been informed that some people solve the crosswords out of sequence. I have sometimes had to catch up on a backlog formed when away on holiday, but I would a) do that in sequence and b) read the blogs in sequence too. Having been alerted to this, I will of course try to avoid any spoilers in future, while agreeing with you that it remains a risk for those who solve out of sequence.
Lord Jim @76 and sh @78: I’m inclined to agree with you both.Ā I’ve always felt, if one is really keen to preserve one’s total ignorance of a puzzle, visiting a blog such as this is always going to entail some risk and the safest solution is to stay away.Ā (If I’ve recorded a rugby match to watch later in the day, I make a point of avoiding watching the news or logging into a rugby site until I’ve seen the game.Ā And, if I’ve recorded a couple if games, I’ll watch them in order as the commentators on the second inevitably refer at some point to the preceding match.)Ā I see each individual blog as both a self-contained comment on the day’s puzzle and also the opportunity for ongoing discussion of techniques, styles, themes etc.Ā And, as you both point out, that can mean referencing previous clues.Ā I commented today on three appearances of marijuana in a week for example which, technically, might spoil the enjoyment of someone attempting the Crucible or last Friday’s Paul.Ā I agree with hatter it would be a shame if we had to come across to GD for such discussions – unless one keeps open a window on the laptop for both the daily blog and GD, it’s a pain to keep switching between two conversations.Ā Perhaps, sh, it might have been the inclusion of elements of the clue alongside the solution that heightened the frustration of the other posters.Ā A solution alone might fade from the mind but is less likely to do so when associated with other words.Ā Though difficult to see how you could have made your point without it.
Rishi @75: I’ve never heard the expression “ringing the strip”.Ā What does it mean?
The answer to Tony’s clue is part of the answer to mine (and there’s an extra clue in @73, which I thought was a very clever response).
Lord Jim @76: I concur with your take on policies 3 & 4, having concluded much the same when reviewing a couple days back. Still, important to bear in mind our community has many different members, who no doubt approach the puzzles, and this site, in a comparably different number of ways… hard to say who’s right/wrong sometimes. With that in mind, I do have empathy for those who prefer not to see unnecessary spoilers, even if I don’t use the site the same way myself… it’s a balancing act, and I think it best if all sides try to understand and make allowances for each other.
In this particular situation, I think the initial comment, ref’ing a specific very recent puzzle, clue number, answer, and parts of the clue, can be seen as a spoiler, and perhaps might’ve been avoided (or minimized) via refs to comment numbers in the preceding blog where possible. Complaints were lodged, perhaps with merit… but also quite pointedly, and pushing the bounds of the equally relevant policy 1, in my opinion. The resulting tenor was not conducive to mutual understanding or improvement of the community as a whole, and that’s what I lament. In a dynamic community like this, slip ups will always occur… the way we respond to them determines whether we’re all improved or diminished as a result. In this case, recriminations led to a second incident (one I feel overstated, as indicated in my last couple comments on the 28295-Vlad puzzle blog), and doubtless some lingering tenderness and negative feelings. I think a more positive approach might’ve avoided that while improving mutual understanding. I also commend the mea culpas and apologies offered, and wish all sides were equally willing to reassess their roles in what occurred. I think we’d all be the better for it.
Muffin@77
You said “clear all my history”. Can you clarify that please?
I’m just curious as I haven’t had a problem since I started using https all the time.
Rishi@75, you might not have the general knowledge for it if you didn’t grow up in the UK. If you’re completely stuck, even after my extra hint, look
here.
Since 19 November, I am unable to access the crosswords on the Guardian site. It suddenly stopped working for me. I have tried in Safari, Opera and Chrome, but no luck so far.
Do we need to download the app they mention?
^ ignore my post above. As soon as I posted, the cryptic puzzle of 20 Novemer started to show up
And once again, the Guardian crossword does not show up. I don’t know what the problem is.
My internet connection is fine for all other sites.
michelle: FYI, no Guardian problems on my Android w/Firefox… just went to today’s Everyman and it loaded just fine. As another suggested, maybe try a different browser? Or perhaps relaunch your browser and/or clear your cookies? Or reboot? Good luck!
Jim/shef/post/odd@76, 78, 79, 81: Here’s a relative newbie’s take on this discussion.
I find the blogs very interesting and educational, and there is often some continuity from one day to the next. That continuity often requires reference to clues from the earlier puzzles.Ā So they are more useful if read in sequence. This means, of course, that I do the crosswords in sequence as well. Doing it this way, spoilers are not an issue.
Of course this means that if I fall behind in doing the crosswords, I can’t contribute to the discussions until I catch up. What is more important to me: getting the most out of others’ contributions, or getting my two cents worth in every day? For me it’s the former.
VW and WFP appear to fall into the other camp. They want to do the current puzzle, and engage in that day’s conversation, but also want to go back afterwards to earlier crosswords that they have missed. For them, spoilers are an issue.
So here’s a respectful solution.
1. We should all agree that it is OK to refer to clues from earlier puzzles. But when we do, we should preface our contribution with a spoiler alert, so our spoiler-averse friends can skip over our comment and move on to the next.
2. If we inadvertently make a mistake, it should be brought to our attention politely, with no expressions of ire, so we can apologize without feeling the need to defend ourselves.
3. And perhaps we should accept that a spoiler doesn’t ruin a whole puzzle – it only denies you the pleasure of solving that particular clue. If it’s a good puzzle, it is enjoyable to solve even if you are starting with one clue already done for you. (Of course, revealing a theme is a whole other kettle of fish.)
Does this make sense?
OddOtter – thanks for the advice.
I tried on Safari, Chrome, and Opera browsers. I clear cookies + cache several times per day. Still does not work.
Problem solved. I had to create an account and log in. I never had to do that before to access the crossword puzzles at the Guardian.
Michelle: Have never had to have an acct myself. Their main xword page says: “For technical problems email userhelp@theguardian.com“, so maybe give that a try and see what the say?
cellomaniac @88, sounds quite reasonable. Your #2-3 are what I had been thinking myself, and #1 is a sensible addition, to which I would add one suggestion: first try to refer to existing comments in a prior blog to support your point if possible, rather than repeating info that would constitute a spoiler; then, if more detail is still necessary, proceed with a clear warning as you suggest, and with the minimum amount of potential spoiler info necessary to convey your point.
Michelle, I am glad that it is working for you now. Ā It just occurred to me that might be the problem. Ā I do have an account but my account info is perhaps only in the Safari cookies which is why it worked only on that browser for me. But even when I tried logging in on the other browsers it still does not load the crosswords so the problem is deeper than that.
Michelle, I’ve watched your struggles from afar and with no idea at all how to help other to offer rather meaningless encouragement or sympathy.Ā Which doesn’t mean I didn’t feel for you!Ā I’m one who, if the technology turns against me, can do nothing other than ask a teenage son for help so have been in your situation.Ā Glad you’ve got it sorted.
cellomaniac @88 – I am not sure how you can conclude that a spoiler doesn’t ruin a whole puzzle when the evidence of the Guardian blogs is that there are many people keenly proud of their record in finishing particular puzzles. I don’t have this pride, but can confirm that for me a puzzle is immediately devalued if I am gifted just one clue from a spoiler and totally wasted if a theme is revealed. My solving habit is to try and do the crossword on the day it is published, but often fail and look to catch up as soon as possible.
I would not argue that clues from other puzzles should never be referred to. But that attention should always be paid to Site Policy 3 (per Lord Jim @76) – that comments should always be relevant to the puzzle under discussion. All I would ask for is that people bear in mind the strength of feeling about spoilers when considering the relevance of their contributions. With relation to the recent “crime” that kicked off this discussion, I had no problem with reference being made to the fact that a cluing device had been used in consecutive days’ puzzles, but didn’t see any need for the relevant solutions in the previous day’s crossword to be quoted in the current day’s comments.
Why should it be relevant to a particular puzzle that one of the words in it has been clued elsewhere this week? And similarly what are the circumstances where it is necessary to reveal the theme of another crossword when discussing another?
I would not wish for a system of flagging spoler alerts. It would potentially have the same effect as the recent change in site policies that was intended to limit off-topic comments but has instead led many to believe that off-topic comments are encouraged, provided that square brackets are used.
Van Winkle @95, thanks for your perspective.
One clarification: my understanding is that since the recent Comment Guidelines, Site Policy 3 doesnāt say comments should always be relevant to the puzzle under discussion, but for the most part.Ā That being the case, there doesnāt appear to be any regulatory prohibition of āspoilersā (even non-relevant ones) other than in relation to the Saturday puzzle ā itās more a matter of precedent, and of courteous consideration toward fellow-solvers.
Which brings me to the point about āstrength of feelingā.Ā Iām sure many will readily identify with that flash of righteous irritation which is apt to envelop us when someone spoils our enjoyment.
But while that feeling of disappointment may have prompted your own complaint on Wednesday night (which as I said before was phrased in courteous language), it cannot have been the trigger for the truly hurtful comment on Thursday morning, since the poster himself says he hadnāt seen the original āspoilerā.Ā As far as I am aware no apology for that post has yet been offered.
OddOtter, KLColin, and PostMark
I was just about to enjoy doing the Monday Cryptic and Quiptic but again, I cannot access the Guardian crosswords even though I signed in with my account.
This is so frustrating after years of doing the Guardian crosswords online with no problems of accessing the puzzles. *screams*
I will contact āFor technical problems email userhelp@theguardian.comā now…
Thanks for your help and moral support.
Michelle, I’m finding the same with Firefox, Chrome and Edge (on PC) and Safari (on iPhone). After the “Cryptic Crossword No XXX” headingĀ and the paragraph beginning “Time on your hands?” there is blank space where the interactive puzzle should be, and the comments don’t load. The print and PDF versions work fine. I think this is a geographical problem. I’m not in the UK (I don’t think you are either) and therefore don’t have a UK IP address. If I use a UK server via a VPN it all works fine – it’s still OK even if I turn the VPN off again unless I clear cookies.
I don’t know if this is a glitch or whether the Guardian has deliberately blocked some content for certain geographical regions. It’ll be interesting to see what reply you get from tech help – could you please report back here? In the meantime, try using a VPN or proxy if you have one, as a temporary workaround.
Following on from my post earlier, the crossword now loads perfectly on all browsers without the need for a UK IP address. It’s obviously a glitch then, that seems to come and go. Let’s hope it’s fixed soon.
cruciverbophile @98 they replied with advice to clear cache (which was not the problem this time). And yes, that is what was happening at my end. Correct, I am not in UK.
Since then, it has started to work again. I hope it was just a temporary glitch.
Thanks for your moral support – I really appreciated it š
Let me start with the local mainstrean quatercentenarian nation-wide newspaper.
It has a crosswordĀ – I think it’s the only newspaper that has a daily originalĀ weekday crossword in the country.
Yet am I able to solve it comfortably? No! The font that is used for certain boxed features like the crossword is not only small but also light (compared to what is used for news articles)Ā and I, at 77 years and at present with cataract on one that cannot be operated on immediately for other reasons, just cannot read it.
As a subscriber I complain now and then But to no avail.
Now, take FT Crossword. The type size is small. Can’t they start the cluesĀ alongside the grid and when they come to the end of the the grid move on to the two columns below it and use a bigger font? Why an acre of space for jotting? How many of use that space in the printed paper? We cannot use it on the Web anyway.
At least if the crossword is not an image file we can copy-paste the clues in a doc and enlarge the text.
I neither buy the print edition of FTĀ nor am I a subscriber of the Web edition. So I had better shut my mouth.
Of course, if we D/L the file we can copy-paste the clues. That’s what I do. For the grid, I set it up in one or two minutes with my CWD software. Have the grid and clues in two windows and solve merrily. Today the clue was FIN!
I meant to say the first ac clue was first one in.
Rishikesh@101, maybe you should start off by saying where you are, so that “local” and “nation-wide” have meaning? (I’m guessing the “nation” is India?) Also, I wonder what a “quatercentenarian newspaper” is, as I couldn’t find that word in Collins and the nearest is ‘quatercentenary“, which refers to something 400 years old. Are there newspapers that have been established 400 years? Why don’t you just say what paper you are talking about?
Tony @104
First of all, you’re right. I am in Chennai that was Madras, India.
The paper is The Hindu.
Ii is actually 140 years.
I meant to say 125 and used that horrible word from distant and failingĀ memory. I should have looked up but did not. I am cringeing.
Is there a single word for something that is 125 years old??
Thanks for correcting me.
Anniversary – 125 years – Quasquicentennial – Term is broken down as quasqui- (and a quarter) centennial (100 years). Quasqui is a contraction from quadrans “a quarter” plus the clitic conjunction -que “and”. The term was coined by Funk and Wagnalls editor Robert L. Chapman in 1961 (Wikipedia)
Glad I donāt suffer from hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliaphobia (google it) š
Rishi
So glad you made the original mistake, or I would never have heard about Quasquicentennial. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), itĀ is too long to fit into a standard 15×15 crossword puzzle!
P.S. Here’s looking forward to The Hindu’s sesquicentennial!
In the interests of accuracy, my post @107 should have an āoā, not an āaā before āphobiaā. The āquippā bit can be just āquipā and it refers to a fear of long words. The etymology is of course a little absurd.
Guy Barry. Why don’t you simply put off trying to solve your Inquisitor for two weeks and then you’ll be able to solve with the benefit of the fifteen squared blog to help? As you say there’s no prize, so no rush to complete it.
Not looking for any responses but testing something.Ā I made a comment on the Guardian blog today …And its format, before I pressed Post, was three brief paragraphs…But when it appeared on the site, it’s all collapsed into oneSo this will show what happens, at least on the GD page.
Ah, it’s done it here as well.Ā No idea if you’re checking, Gaufrid, and whether it is a deliberate or unintentional change. Now I’m going to insert two line breaks and see what happens.Ā Personally, I like being able to use paragraph/line breaks – even though my posts are shorter than they used to be.
Final post on this topic: it didn’t recognise two line breaks either.Ā Like it’s not recognising the Return key.
Puzzle 28314. Eileen, for whom I have the greatest respect, said in her preamble “I usually enjoy Brummie’s puzzles but I’m afraid I found this one a lacklustre solve, with several tired clues, a couple of quibbles and nothing to raise a smile”. I agreed with her. Then she spotted the theme which “put a different complexion on things”. Question is should it have? The tired clues are still tired and some of the quibbles remained. Should our enjoyment of a puzzle depend on spotting the theme? I don’t have a firm opinion. It’s not a question of whether I spotted the theme or not. I do remember enjoying many puzzles where I haven’t spotted the theme.
Pino @115. Good question. I very rarely spot a theme, and if I do it’s even rarer that it helps me with my solve. And I was as surprised as you when Eileen said that the theme improved her liking of the crossword. But I think perhaps what she means is that she appreciates the cleverness of the setter in incorporating the theme into the grid or the clues – I guess in this case the clues, which had seemed so lacklustre before.
I’m the opposite, because I like a crossword with a stated theme, or at least a statement that there is a theme. In this situation, the setter has licence to omit the definition from themed clues, which makes for a tougher solve and requires a bit more lateral thinking from the solver. On the other hand, the solver doesn’t have to worry about which part of the clue forms the definition, because there isn’t one!
The danger with this sort of themed puzzle is that the theme is so difficult that the solver loses interest, or has to resort to a list of possible answers, mechanically ticking them off. So there can be down sides to themed puzzles too.
This is a reply to a comment made by James @91 on the Guardian cryptic 28319 but referring to a puzzle from two days before. “The reason the pun [in 13d] is not made explicit is so that the editor/setter can hold up their hands in mock amazement and claim itās all in our fervid little imaginations. Itās a bit like Tramp saying all his models are male.”
James, you may be right, though the editor’s track record makes a case for the “incompetence rather than conspiracy” explanation. But I’m inclined to give Tramp less leeway than I might have previously, after he dismissed a couple of what I thought were genuine and justified queries the other day as trolling. It made me think again about a reaction I read in the comments below his 28317 https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/lookup?crossword_type=cryptic&id=28317 before I went on Fifteen Squared.
“Didn’t even attempt this – not because it’s difficult but because too many clues objectify women. Definitely composed with male puzzlers in mind!”
My first thought was to dismiss it out of hand, but on further reflection and bearing in mind other comments and Tramp’s reactions, I’ve come round to thinking there may be something in it after all. Three models (all different, but one an erotic type, another showing a bit of leg); woman who sinned spread over magazine to excite; not completely nude centrefold; topless sex club; short top & short knickers. There must have been other ways of cluing the answers, which were not of themselves the sort to prompt a train of thought that would end up with clues which objectify women.
I’m not writing this to provoke a response; I’m genuinely interested in other people’s considered reactions to these clues and the discussion they have prompted here and on the Guardian’s crossword page. And I particularly don’t want Tramp to come in here calling me a troll. I would like him to reflect calmly about what he is aiming for when he writes clues like these.
sheffieldhatte@117
I too am quiten fond of a stated theme and I don’t mind an unstated one as long as the clums are interesting and solvable without spotting it. I have in mind some that have had the works of 70s pop groups as the theme. Back in the more distant past I remember one based on E F Schumacher that required knowledge of long quotations from his work (not just ” small is beautful”) which I thought unfair. The fact that the setter was Araucaria makes no difference. Even Homer nods. In this case I thought that some of the clueing was, as Eileen said, “lacklustre” and the fact that it had a clever theme didn’t change my opinion.
Sorry, line 2 “clues”
sheffield hatter @117 – Tramp might have been quick to accuse me of trolling because we have previous. See especially the blogs for puzzles 27,159 and 27,336, where I commented on the casual sexism that that characterised them. My favourite setters are those that create a happy atmosphere where you can almost feel them in the room having fun playing with your mind but willing you to solve their puzzles. My experience with Tramp is more one of constantly being transported to a different age populated by dolly birds and slappers. I often decline the offer to take the trip.
Some people seem to enjoy it, though, and it would be interesting to hear why they do.
No prize Guardian crossword today? It hasn’t been posted online as far as I can see.
. . . It’s up now – a Maskarade special.
Sheffield Hatter, 5 above. If you are going to say something like “Tramp […]
dismissed a couple of what I thought were genuine and justified queries the other day as trolling”, you should give a direct link, so we can evaluate your comment on the light of objective evidence, rather than just accepting your view of the matter.
Also, if you genuinely want to know “people’s considered reaction to these clues”, you should give the clues in full or a full reference to the clue, not just phrases taken from them.
Ideally, you would also give Tramp notice of these discussions so that he can defend himself from accusations made where he will not necessarily see them. I not sure how you would do that, otoh.
Tony Collman @ 123. Thanks for the helpful criticism. Sorry about the oversights; here’s the link: http://www.fifteensquared.net/2020/12/15/guardian-cryptic-28317-by-tramp/#comments See #11 and #71, in apparent response to Rishi @8 and gofirstmate @65&66, though Van Winkle seems to think Tramp was having a go at him @60. To show that this is not intended as a personal attack on Tramp, I’ll add that he was helpful @37, and although he can sometimes appear to be a bit brusque and in-your-face, it is usually good to have him join in below the line.
And here are the full clues:
Model is erotic type
Modelās tall, showing bit of leg
Not completely nude ā centrefoldās wearing clothes!
Private lives: topless sex clubās regulars drunk
Blonde to approach best place for swingers?
Lace set in short knickers, like one hanging in there
Loads of room in a short top
Woman who sinned spread over magazine to excite
I don’t know if the original complainant on the Guardian crossword page may have had others in mind in addition to these.
If I knew how to alert Tramp to this I would have done so. I presume Gaufrid monitors this forum, so I guess it’s up to him.
I’m sorry you feel that way about my puzzles.
When I see EVOKE: I see OK in Eve and I see the link with to excite. When I see DECENT I think of being clothed. I might not have used a hidden clue and I notice it’s in nude centrefold. I join the dots. Next time I have to clue these words, I’ll have to think of other ways to clue them.
When I see H I sometimes think heroin.When I see bar I think of pub. When I see gic I think of a cigarette rolled up. When I see slavering, I see lav and dribbling so I write a clue about John Barnes dribbling: very hard to do considering I’m an Evertonian. Someone sees the word slave and makes a link that I never thought of or even noticed and paints me out as a racist.
I write some clues about drinking, smoking, drugs, etc I don’t drink, I’ve never done drugs and I only ever smoked when I set fire to my sleeve on a bunsen burner by mistake. I just see patterns in words and do my best to paint a misleading surface. I’m sorry if sometimes that surface offends you. My use of cuckoo was never meant to cause offence: cuckoo can mean daft or silly.
I haven’t got the energy to defend myself. I know who I am and I know that many of the finest setters on the planet like my puzzles. If you don’t, please don’t do them: I won’t be offended.
Neil
Ps i wrote this on my phone with no glasses on. I apologise if it strewn with errors.
Neil/Tramp: Thanks for coming here. I started this thread reluctantly. I’m really not one of those that have a go at setters just for the fun of it, and I applaud you for joining in the community of commenters below the blogs here – not many do.
Regarding the remarks you make about SLAVERING and John Barnes, and about cuckoo as an anagrind, I think you’ll find that I was entirely on your side in those instances. If your shotgun blast was directed elsewhere and only a few peripheral missiles have accidentally hit me, that’s ok. Probably about as painful as setting fire to your sleeve on a Bunsen burner (hilarious story BTW).
If you read mine @117 (or if your phone doesn’t display comment numbers, then about eight above yours) you’ll see that I initially dismissed the comment about objectifying women in your clues, and it was only when I stopped and looked carefully at them that it finally struck me. This shows not only how I try to filter out the surface readings but also that I’m not looking to find offence. I’m not accusing you of a sexist approach to cluing, any more than others are seriously suggesting that you are racist (John Barnes) or poking fun at people with mental health issues (cuckoo). I suggested, in the final sentence of my original post, “I would like [Tramp] to reflect calmly about what he is aiming for when he writes clues like these.”
We see some incredibly inventive and funny clues on Guardian crosswords. Don’t tell anyone, but I thought ‘Modelās tall, showing bit of leg’ was very good. Just as I thought that Paul’s ‘Wee like wee?’ in last weekend’s “Prize” was on the money. Some people complained about political crossword themes, and at first I disagreed. But lately it just got too much; Biden and Trump everywhere. Same with Paul’s toilet humour: very funny, but please, not every other clue.
You’ve given us an insight into how these clues came to you. And you’ve concluded (with perhaps a touch of annoyance), next time “Iāll have to think of other ways to clue them.” All I’m asking is that you have a bit of awareness about how some of these clues might come across: spotting ‘nuDE CENTrefold’ is very clever and admirable, spotting that it might get up some people’s noses, perhaps more so.
I’ll have to think of other ways to clue those words because once you’ve used an idea, you can’t reuse it. As long as I live I’ll struggle to write a better clue for blueprint. My favourite clue of all time was my one for post-it. If an idea is good, I will use it.
The clue for Post-it was too good, Tramp. Such clues are inspired that occur to a clue-writer suddenly. Do use those ideas. You don’t drink. You don’t smoke. Don’t tell me you don’t have it…
sheffield hatter @117
Iāve scrubbed most of my original reply because I donāt want to stoke flames about things that donāt really bother me. I had no problem with anything in Trampās puzzle, but did think the clues you list gave it a particular tone.
The issue that does wind me up is that of stifling discussion. I think crosswords in a national newspaper are fair game for discussion or criticism like anything else in the paper. This seems like the place for that, but thereās tension because a lot of people here are meeting with friends, who include setters. A heated discussion that includes suggestions of sexism and non-pc use of language describing mental health, apart from misconceived quibbles about clues, is fine if all the participants are disinterested, but with the setter involved and others empathising with him out of friendship or just inclination, things are bound to get ugly.
I am very firmly on the side of letting people say what they like if theyāre not being personally offensive, and think this right should trump concern for the setterās feelings. This includes making silly mistakes about how clues work, saying a puzzle was unenjoyable, or saying clues are distasteful. What about the setterās right to reply? The dayās setter is in a strange position if he joins the discussion; heās a revered guest but also a gooseberry. Either way, he inhibits.
The reason I made the comment about the male models was not because of the clues themselves, but because a comment like that ignores the fact that what posters here comment on is the effect of the puzzle, not the intention. The editorial attitude is one of hand-washing, which I find cowardly and unrealistic, and leaves setters exposed. I read the article which Van Winkle linked to about the crossword supposedly being in line with general Guardian policy. The editorās hiliarious and telling response to a clue which was described as a definite error: I certainly would have edited it if I had been aware of it.
Ok, what’s the post-it clue?
Tony @130
Using the Site Search facility reveals Guardian 26,517/Tramp, 12/3/15:
3dn Sticky after sex? (4-2)
Haha! Thanks Gaufrid. I should have thought of using the 15^2 search.
On a technical point, I notice this uses an adjectival definition for a nominal answer, so in one sense it is less than perfect. On the other hand … it’s brilliant!
It happens that I have been involved of late in a discussion (on the Guardian blog: https://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/146052903) of whether one should clue nouns using adjectives or adjectival phrases to define them and I have been leading the charge for the antis. I have already been made to think again due to a recent clue in the Guardian (which site policy precludes me from directly mentioning at this juncture), and I can’t imagine anyone (except perhaps the prudes we have recently heard from) wanting to preclude this clue.
After asking what the clue was, I thought about it and felt sure the wordplay would be “after sex”, but couldn’t come up with a good def to complete the surface. Maybe it’s because I wouldn’t normally give consideration to adjectives to define nouns?
Tony, tut tut. Sticky n. a piece of paper with an adhesive strip on one side.
Youāre someone who cares about these things and yet you assume the setter doesnāt. What chance does he stand of showing the 99% of solvers who never get to the bottom of these things that he knows his grammar? Must be really irritating.
Well, well.
I am here not to keep at criticising.
I am a former blogger of the FT puzzle on this site. I was a frequent commenter too, chipping in with any needed explanation (if the time zone differences allowed me to do so). Now I am now only a casual visitor just to keep myself in the swim. There was a time when I used to go to absurd lengths to be able to solve UK puzzles. I was also a member of the Cryptic Clue Workshop of the New York Times Forums on the Web when Hex was the moderator
I am proud to say that decades ago at a time when India had strict foreign exchange regulations and licence was needed to import goods, I got a copy of the hard-bound first edition of Ximenes on the Art of Crossword imported by a bookseller. Later I also got D. St. P. Barnard’s Anatomy of the Crossword. Both these are in the ‘rare books’ category now, I think.
I stand by my opinion that the clue mentioned is brilliant.
When we read a clue and try to solve it, the answer comes. Some immediately, some after we think for a while. Do we anatomise it first with these rules of grammar, idiom, etc?
Answers to some clues will come out of the mind just like that. Can’t we part our lips in a gentle smile, enter it and get on with our life?
When I tracked down the clue and saw it, I said to myself ‘Aha!’
Yes, some moments later the disparity in PoS occurred to me but I dismissed it. .
Rules must be there but an occasional infringement of any rule needs to be overlooked.
Incidentally, now when newspapers are starved of advertisements and pinched for money, should brand names and registered trade marks be given a place in the crossword grid? That is a different topic and I am not going to enter into it.
Back to lurking.
James,
The noun isn’t in Collins (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/sticky); I did look before shooting my mouth off. What dictionary are you quoting from? I’m really pleased to find Tramp wasn’t disregarding the principle that I (and you, too, apparently) like to adhere to (npi!). I don’t know if you’ve been following the discussion (linked above) in the Guardian blog (you don’t seem to have chipped in), but you will see that not only has a clue which doesn’t follow that principle been given more upvotes (12)than any other on the post, but it has been noted there that Maskerade has disregarded the principle in a clue in his Christmas Special, so I can’t have full confidence that every Guardian setter thinks the same way as us.
Tony @135
Chambers
An adhesive label or note
ODE
A piece of paper with an adhesive strip on one side, used for leaving messages or reminders.
Thanks, Gaufrid. I suspected as much, but Chambers hadn’t heard of it in 1988 (had anyone?) when my copy of Chambers was published. I suspect it’s a term only used by the BBC — to avoid appearing to endorse the brand, like the famous “sticky-backed plastic” (Sellotape) Blue Peter would tell kids to use to make their replica Houses of Parliament or whatever.
Is anyone else having trouble commenting on the Guardian? I’m signed in, but the pages where I want to comment don’t recognize the fact. I’ve written to their tech support, but they can take up to 48 hours to reply, never mind do anything. Meanwhile I can’t reply to people who are addressing me on the crossword blog (about the noun/adjective thing amongst others).
Tony,
Tramp, as far as I can tell, is an absolute purist. Maskarade, on the hand, is very much one of the cowboys as far as cluing goes. I can’t believe there’s only one clue in the Christmas jumbo that’s iffy. What about ‘How time flies?’
I’ve been having trouble with the blog. My pc will no longer load the comments so I’m stuck with my phone, very inconvenient for writing on, and I have only just realised that there is an option to show threads, rather than chronological posts which is what I’ve been reading for the last couple of weeks.
I don’t like those new Guardian picks at all. Can we lobby AC to get them removed?
James, I’ve always enjoyed Tramp’s puzzles, as far as I remember and I have no lingering feeling that I’ve had bad experiences with his clues at all. I only do the Guardian on Saturday, usually, so I’m not really familiar with the ins and outs of every setter’s style. Haven’t looked at the Maskerade yet, except that one clue that got referred to in the discussion about definitions. I might do it if I have time. Usually I do the Prize on a Saturday evening, but this week I did the Tramp that everyone was talking about above instead. I enjoyed it and think it’s a lot of tosh saying it’s demeaning to women to use ‘female’ for hen and so on. I can’t stand people who ‘take offence on behalf of others’. Let the people who are actually offended, if any, speak for themselves.
I use the phone a lot when commenting, as it’s always there and always on, while the laptop has to be got out, fired up and obviously I have to be at home. I always have the options set to “Show threads expanded” on both pc and phone. If comments won’t load, you’re usually offered the option to load a more primitive display of the comments (no threading, I think). Usually that doesn’t last long.
I’m not that keen on having Guardian picks for the Crossword blog. If I want to see which clues are getting the most likes I ask for display in order of recommendations. I don’t who decided to set up picks for the blog, but maybe it was AC himself?
I’ve just checked and the signing-in problem seems to be over, so I’ll return there now.
MaidenBartok: just to say a few more words about my favourite pastime, classical music. I have been a Proms fan since as a schoolboy while learning the piano, I used to go up to London after school and pay my pennies to listen to the likes of Sir Malcolm Sergeant, Sir John Barbirolli and others bring great live performances to an utterly transfixed audience standing as close as we could get to the front and centre of things. Early performances of the War Requiem and a 50 year anniversary performance of Mahler’s 8 stand out, as do Mozart Concertos played by Clifford Curzon and the Penderecki St Luke Passion.
Specific to your points I would say that Glenn Gould’s performances of Bach stand out along with Schiff. My personal favourite pianists at the moment are in no particular order Helene Grimaud, Martha Argerich, Yuja Wang and the gently sublime Maria JoĆ£o Pires.
For me the worst thing about the covid pandemic has been the lack of live arts and music of any sort in particular. I could go on about musical ‘moments’ forever, but I wanted to honour your comments with general agreement and my initial thoughts. Very best wishes, David
Spanza @141: Let me say a few things about my favourite pastime then – classical music! I’ve been a regular concert-goer since the age of 7 – first saw my piano teacher play Beethoven 5 with the Gravesend Symphony at the Woodville Halls and that took to me Music A level via piano, flute, singing and basically anything that meant I didn’t have to do sport which I hate…
Unfortunately, I ended up with Music, Maths and Physics A levels and sweet bu**er-all ability in anything else so off I went to do engineering in London on the basis that it would pay the bills. I spent ALL my time at the RFH, the Barbican, Sadlers Wells, RoH (Ā£5 to stand to watch Meistersinger!). I’m still an engineering academic by profession but I’m also now a part-time musician (teach a bit of piano – or did), singer, composer and doing my BA in Music. Agerich is THE pianist but I’m also a massive Ashkenazy fan (especially his early Beethoven recordings) and Schiff remains a hero. Of the new batch, Mahan Esfahani (Harpsichord), Pavel Kolesnikov and Isata Kanneh-Mason really light my 88-keys.
And I’m totally with you on the lockdown – I’m a regular Prommer (not the whole lot but usually all the chamber/small ones and about 25-30 of the main tent), WOMAD-er and a couple of other festivals plus waste hours at the gorgeous Cadogan, Wigmore and LSO St.Lukes. Classical, folk, World. I’ve just booked some tickets for Kings Place in May for a couple of things with fingers VERY VERY crossed. I also sing with a couple of choirs and accompany another on an ad-hoc basis. I’m part of a group called the London Piano Meetup – we meet (used to meet – grr) once a month to play pieces in front of each other (about 25 at a time) and then go to the pub to talk about piano and music. For hours.
I’ve hurt very, very badly this past year. It is not hyperbole to say that finding such obvious like-minds on 225 has been a life-saver – connecting with people over music, wordplay, puns is so “me” and to have that torn away has nearly destroyed me at times. I spent a few years living in Silicon Valley and one of the reasons for coming back was the vibrant arts and music scene I rely on in the UK which is so sadly missing in much of the US. Music is my obsession but I love sharing it with the musical friends I’ve made over the past few years and I really miss them.
“I could go on about musical āmomentsā forever” – me too…
All the best
David
(My website is linked below)
Wow! The site seems to have had a makeover. It looks much more up-to-date – classy!
Hello!
I have started to do Monday’s FT cryptic. It’s a learning process but one I am enjoying!
I wondered if anyone could offer any guidance on the difference between the FT’s style across the week?
I originally chose Monday because then I can spend the week thinking about it (yes it takes me that long!). However, I did a Monday crossword (11/01/2020) recently and thought it different to usual. It seemed less “strict” with the rules. Anyway it lead me to thinking that perhaps different days might have different “styles”?
Many thanks!
Rachel
Mathematicians and computer programmers on Fifteensquared: firstly, if you’ve come here because of my post on todays’ Carpathian, many thanks, and, secondly, I appreciate this may be frowned upon since it’s a question that is not inspired by crosswords. But the recent discussion on factorials prompted me to tap into the expertise here:
My partner is having to teach her primary class about digital roots. I’ve never heard of this (other than the old trick of seeing if a number is divisible by three.) Yes, some interesting patterns/graphs emerge but I cannot, for the life of me, see what possible application the concept has. If anyone could – briefly – furnish me with an explanation/example, I would be eternally grateful. Web enquiries tell me how to do it but I’ve not yet found one that tells me why I would bother.
Many thanks – and apologies if it’s an inappropriate query for the site.
PM
Maidenbartok
Is it David, then? Being born and brought up in Croydon, I used to go to the Fairfield Halls very regularly to classical concerts. I remember being fascinated how the string members of the Bulgarian Symphony Orchestra held their bows.
I love classical music, too. Particularly the early stuff. Used to have a harpsichord. Had to be sold, alas.
Are there still concerts at the Fairfield Halls?
PostMark @145
I’d never heard of digital roots either. It seems to be a way of checking if you’ve done your sums right. See the bottom of the attached.
PostMark@147. The digital root of a number is the single digit you get when you repeatedly sum the individual digits of a multi-digit number. E.g. the digital root of 478 is determined as follows: 4+7+8 = 19; 1+9=10; 1+0=1. So the digital root of 478 is 1.
https://esolangs.org/wiki/Digital_root_calculator
Similar but much more interesting imho is John Conway’s concept of a powertrain.
https://aheartfulofharvest.blogspot.com/2017/12/conways-powertrain.html#!
Wiggers @148: thanks. My problem is I understand what a digital root is but not what I would ever do with one!
postmark @145
May I suggest that your partner searches Youtube for ‘digital sum’ or “digital root’ – perhaps adding other search items such as ‘for children’ or ‘primary’.
Many of the videos are American or SE Asian – making the voices sometimes difficult to understand (at least for me!) Most of the ones I’ve looked at concentrate on how to check the results of additions and subtraction. All seem to be about numbers to base 10 which I suppose is appropriate for most children. The more advanced topics such as creating checksums, working with base n, etc. are not covered.
Anna @146 – Fairfield has been shut for quite some time for a major makeover; Fairfield’s design was a version of the Royal Festival Hall by engineer Hope Begenal and suffered many of the same issues. It was supposed to be re-opening (and I think it did) for concerts in 2020 but we all know where THAT went!
There was a new Yamaha Piano School which was opening there but I think that has all shut down – the future is looking very uncertain.
PostMark @145: The major use for “Digital Roots” (actually modulo arithmetic) is in public key cryptogrpahy which I understand VERY little about even having read this http://pi.math.cornell.edu/~mec/2003-2004/cryptography/diffiehellman/diffiehellman.html
Thanks Dicho and MB. Does seem slightly odd that primary schools learn a technique primarily used in public key cryptography. I’ve seen the suggestions that it’s useful for checking results of addition which I found both interesting and surprising. It didn’t strike me as an intuitive way to verify.
PostMark @152: I had a manager at t’last place where I worked who was an ex-submariner. Whenever he read out a phone number he used to do it three times – once forward, once backwards and then the summation of all the digits as a check…
As for primary kids learning; not by any chance in school in the Cheltenham area are they š !
MB: believe it or not, less than 20 miles away! Social engineering at work???
I remember a boss in my first place of work in the mid-80’s, when desktop PC’s were still fairly new, exclaining with surprise: “your computer comes up with same answer as my calculator”!
PostMark@149. Digital root analysis can be used for pattern identification in number sequences – a pattern appears in the digital roots when no pattern is evident in the original number sequence. It can also be used as a method for testing numbers for primality; with the exception of the number 3, no prime number has a digital root of 3, 6 or 9, as any fule kno. Digital root analysis can be used to substantially speed up prime factorisation. The laborious nature of prime factorisation underpins the security of almost all electronic data encryption. So you could use digital roots next time you want to mount an RSA attack, but even in lockdown I’d like to think most primary school children won’t have this at the top of their to-do list.
PostMark @154: 1) Watch out for Russian tourists. 2) Go and buy plenty of tin-foil. 3) If you’re offered the Russian COVID vaccine, politely decline…
Wiggers @155: you don’t know some of the kids in my wife’s primary…..! Many thanks for your answer. The most fulsome thus far and now I begin to see how it has application. I suspect, for the youngsters, it’s the joy and surprise of pattern finding.
(You may be aware of the lovely pattern tool used for helping learn the nine times table. Hold up ten fingers. Bend down the first – left hand, little finger – (for 1×9) – and you have 9 fingers upstanding in a row. Answer = 9. Bend down the second – left hand, ring finger – (for 2×9) – and you have 1 and 8 fingers standing either side of the bent one. Answer = 18. And so it goes to 90. Quite neat)
Rachel @144: no one seems to have answered your query yet and my own @145 might mean it gets overlooked by subsequent visitors. I hope someone has welcomed you to the site at some point; if not, it’s good to have you here and posting.
I’d suggest posting your question on the FT dedicated pages here. I don’t do the FT that often (only because I have to print it out and I do the puzzles over a morning coffee in bed so can’t be faffed to go downstairs to the printer!) Some of the FT solving community appear on other blogs too but there are some who focus on that publication. The whole group are friendly and will welcome your question and be able to advise re patterns, setters etc. If you want to be purist and technically correct with regards to site etiquette, you might want to put your query in square brackets as it’s not strictly concerned with the puzzle of the day but, tbh, I doubt if anyone would mind a straight query like that. Especially from a newcomer.
You did the right thing in having a go at posting on General Discussion but it’s not visited by everyone. (Hopefully you pop back to find an answer!). Good luck with your solving.
Just logged in to the site for the first time since its upgrade. First impressions are really good, especially my old bugbear about not being able to see comment numbers while using a mobile device.
Congratulations on what looks like a very smooth upgrade. Iām sure lots of work will have gone into this behind the scenes.