Independent 8776 (Sat 29th November 2014) Tyrus

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My goodness I found this hard.

I started OK with 7 answers in, plus 2 tentative, on the first pass. Then I ground to a stutter and had to leave it for the day only half done, mostly in the bottom and right.
Next day I got stuck in again but found the going tough.  In the end I had to enlist computer help to elicit a few answers.  So something of a personal disappointment on the solving front, but many of the clues that I did get were pleasing.  Tyrus always produces some lovely clues.

Theme? Not that I can see. The puzzle is book-ended by a couple of colloquial phrases top and bottom, and a couple of very different presidents left and right. I cannot see any connections there.

Indy_8776

Answers that I’m not sure about: 8/1, 16, and 20d

Across
8/1 NOT FIT TO RUN A WHELK STALL Drunk’s selfishly incapable of working (3,3,2,3,1,5,5)
I only got this after having most of the crossing letters – finally the W gave it to me – but if the def. is as shown “incapable of working”, surely that is for any reason of incapacity.  That’s how I understand the metaphor.  So I do not see how “Drunk’s selfishly” works.  Or is the clue an entire CD?  Surely being drunk isn’t the only reason for incapacity.  Edit: DF explains thish at Comment #3
9 DRONGO Bird‘s error self-inflicted – no way back (6)
O G (error self-inflicted: Own Goal) NO (no) RD (way) all reversed (back) I liked this clue – nice tight difficult wordplay   An Aussie bird wiki
10 BERYLS Younger celebrity introduces Rolling Stones (6)
SLEB (celebrity) around (introduces) YR (abbrev. for younger as in a title) all reversed (Rolling)
11 OBSTACLE Ex-pupil caught entering old bar (8)
O.B. (ex-pupil, Old Boy) C[aught] inside STALE (old)
12 TERIYAKI Out to lunch I try Ikea food (8)
(I TRY IKEA)* AInd: out to lunch = mad.  First clue answered – after having a fiddle with the letters on paper without much expectation – which I suggest shows the standard of the clues and the PDM when the answer appeared.
14 DETACH Jerk cheated – ‘e wanted divorce (6)
(CHEATED – E)* AInd: Jerk
16 STUPID Crazy singers originally replaced by One Direction (6)
S[ingers], PUT< (if so how is it reversed?)  ID as 1D = One Direction.  This wordplay cannot be correct. Edit: Muffyword explains this at comment #4
17 MALTREAT Dog bites right back at bull (8)
MALE (dog) around RT< (right, back), AT.   I’m having trouble trying to reconcile the definition with the answer (bull/maltreat?)  Bully maybe.
18 STARTING Top player can force opening (8)
STAR (top player) TIN (can) G (force)
21 AGEISM Farage is mainly revealing prejudice (6)
Hidden in farAGE IS Mainly
23 SURETE Yes, they regularly used force abroad (6)
SURE (Yes) T[h]E[y]. Sûreté is a term used in French speaking countries for a civil police force, especially the detective branch.  E.g. “Maigret of the Paris Sûreté”
24 ACID TEST Crucial assessment dictates outcome (4,4)
(DICTATES)* AInd: outcome.  One of the simpler “first pass” clues
25 WHAT’S EATING YOU Guy wants ‘O’ – I hate being broke. Where’s the problem? (5,6,3)
(GUT WANTS O I HATE)* AInd: being broke
Down
1 ROOSEVELT President‘s First Lady a little lethargic in bed (9)
‘S EVE (First Lady) L[ethargic] all inside ROOT (bed) Edit: More likely EVE,L in ROOST (bed) See Comment #8
2 NIFTY Smart new beginning for middle-aged (5)
N[ew] for F in FIFTY
3 WITHSTAND Remain unaffected by having chlamydia, one gathered? (9)
WITH S.T.D. (having chlamydia) around AN (one)
4 ECONOMIC MIGRANT One coming to country initially with aim to work? That’s about right (8,7)
(ONE COMING T[o] C[ountry] + AIM)* AInd: to work, around R[ight]. &Lit.   From the first reading and the enumeration the answer jumped out – then spent much more time parsing the wordplay.  It’s a lovely clue, is it only me that finds it a little obvious?
5 KUDOS Praise for revolution – I don’t care about this country (5)
SOD (I don’t care) UK (this country) all reversed (for revolution)
6 TWO-MASTER Ship‘s commander extremely outspoken at first (3-6)
TWO (homophone “Too” extremely, Homphone indicator: outspoken) MASTER (Commander)
7 LEGAL First stage? Beginner allowed (5)
LEG A. (first stage) L (beginner)
13 IMPERFECT Continuing past road turning right? Exactly! (9)
M1< (roadturning) PERFECT (right? Exactly! = exactly right). I liked the def: The imperfect form of a verb describes an action in the past that is continuous, repeated, or not finished.
14 DALMATIAN One spotted boy going round with two others (9)
LAD< MAT IAN.  Hmm.  Not many Matthews shorten to MAT with a single T do they?
15 CEAU?ESCU Liberal accuses EU President (9)
(ACCUSES EU)* AInd: liberal.  Certainly had to look him up to check his name  (Hardly liberal).  Edit: I see the system is stubbornly refusing to show the S-comma character in Ceausescu. <Wiki link>
19 TOUCH Bit stressed out around hotel (5)
OUT* AInd: stressed, C (around – circa) H[otel]  Another where I’m having trouble trying to reconcile the definition with the answer (bit/touch).  Edit Bert&Joyce explain this at comment #6
20 IRENE Woman‘s indignation clear when leaving town (5)
IRE (indignation), then NE somehow from “clear when leaving town”?  Help please.  Edit: Sil explains this at comment #2
22 ENTRY Watch opener leaving field (5)
def. field, as in the entries for a race are the field, [s]ENTRY (watch, opener leaving).  I am a little doubtful about this explanation too <later> Nah, it’s alright a Watch can be a synonym for a Sentry.

22 comments on “Independent 8776 (Sat 29th November 2014) Tyrus”

  1. I’ll say it was hard! Returned to it several times during the week, and didn’t even manage to complete half of it. Never could work out what 8/1 was, which probably would have helped, and I’d got OBSTRUCT for 11ac, which seemed to work (OB + C in STRUT), which didn’t help.

    It’s odd, the Saturday puzzle. Some weeks I complete it at lunchtime, some, like this, I get nowhere near completing it.

  2. I thought NE in 20d came from NET (clear, like ‘nett’) minus T (town, like ‘Huddersfield Town’).
    Thanks beermagnet, perhaps more about it later.

  4. Thanks beermagnet and Tyrus,

    I agree with Drofle about shellfishly, and with Sil about IRENE.

    I think replaced = put back (put reversed) in the clue for STUPID.

    A bit/touch difficult?

    Thanks for parsing BERYLS!

  5. Thanks DF for parsing of 8/1- he is wicked like that.
    I liked the misdir in 15- liberal being anag.He was very nasty.
    Only saw this today and needed a bit of a leg-up in the SW.
    Great puzzle.

  6. Well, we are glad that others found this difficult. However, we managed to sort out sll the parsings eventually.

    We pondered over 19d but were happy in the end that bit=touch was OK. You can say that you can add a “touch” of somthing when cooking or something can be “a touch sour”. Chambers has it down as ‘a little’.

    Thanks for the blog beermagnet. Tyrus, thanks for the puzzle but if we are a little greyer when we next see you, we know what to blame!

  7. Glad it wasn’t just me that found it hard.

    Sil, looks like you’ve ticked off 20d. I have a blind spot for the word NETT being spelled NET sometimes. Just doesn’t seem right. Using Nett stops confusion, e.g. when describing the cost of tennis equipment.

    DF: Thanks for explaining 8/1’s Shelfishly. How would I ever know about that! I never listen to myshelf after a few beers (it’s generally rubbishsh)

    Muffy: Ta for 16. I really like this: PUT< from "put back" from "replaced".

    B&J: bit/touch A little bit of beer? A touch of whisky? Explains why I found it odd. I never have much to do with having things in moderation.

  8. Also had to cheat to finish. I thought in 1D it was “eve” + “l” in “ROOST”, with Roosevelt apostrophised for the surface. A roost is where some animals sleep; but “root” for bed?

    Thanks to Tyrus and beermagnet.

  9. For the first time in a long time I didn’t get close to finishing – partly I think because like Dormouse I had OBSTRUCT for 11A and even though I was fairly sure 6D couldn’t have the form …-_R_T_R and looking at it now it’s clear the clue doesn’t work, I still didn’t try any alternatives. That might have given me enough to overcome the inertia again, but quite possibly not.

    As I suspected the clues do all make sense and whilst I’d never heard the key phrase about whelks, nor of the surete, I can’t complain about Tyrus’s cluing.

    I did (eventually!) get ROOSEVELT and agree with gwep’s parsing.

  10. 1D ROOSEVELT: You’re right gwep, ROOST for Bed is more likely. When I thought Root/Bed I was thinking about bedding down plants and didn’t question it. I was more doubtful about using that possessive ‘S for the S.

  11. Many thanks to beermagnet for the blog and to others for their comments.

    Unlikely, but if anyone’s doing the online version, the last word in the clue to 17A should read ‘bully’ (as in the paper) rather than ‘bull’.

  14. Surely it should be “fishy” rather than “fishly” then. At the very least, I think this should have had a question mark in the clue. I think I smell some whelks that are well past their sell-by date.

  15. Perhaps my response would have been better phrased:

    the whole clue is ‘incapable of working’, but shellfishly so.

    I think it works well enough. Just a shame I didn’t see it!

  16. Thanks beermagnet and Tyrus. This was hard but there’s some superb clueing here; ECONOMIC MIGRANT and many others are brilliant.

  17. No one will ever read this so I’ll indulge myself. After probably about 9-10 hours of mental effort I finally solved this completely, even if I couldn’t parse all of the clues correctly eg 10a. COD’s IMHO 3d and 8/1 and LOI 17a. I couldn’t quite figure out ‘bull’ as the def so thanks to Tyrus himself for poinying out this should have been ‘bully’ which makes much more sense.

    A real challenge which I was on the point of giving up more than once, but I’m glad I persisted and eventually got there. I found Phi hard on Friday, so would welcome something a bit more benign for the next couple of days.

    Thanks to S&B. Tyrus in particular, thanks for providing such an ultimately satisfying puzzle – I think this was about the hardest cryptic I’ve ever solved, even if there was a bit of frustration and hair pulling along the way!

  18. Thanks for sticking with it, WordPlodder, and glad you managed to finish. Turned out to be harder than I expected.

  19. Not to one-up WP, but was pleased to finish this even if it did take two whole weeks.

    Excellent puzzle, worth sticking with, though I share reservations about 8/1. It went in as a guess and despite all explanations above, I’m not convinced. Had that one been more clearly signposted I think the whole puzzle would have seemed a great deal more tractable.

  20. To paraphrase Monty Python, Two whole weeks? You were lucky! My copy has been languishing in my Unfinished folder for just over three months. But I’m not one to give up. I seem to have been wrong in parsing 16 across as I did: S(oprano) + T(enor) + UP (replaced in the sense of ‘moved to a higher level’) + 1D as others have it. Well, it worked for me, but since Tyrus hasn’t contradicted the prevailing explanation I’ll shut up now.

  21. 2019 March 29 th, the i, can someone please tell me what use is the printing of this type of crossword? The only advantage I can see is the i collecting all the 80 pence per minute asking someone for help. Why oh why, waste of time, space, & ink.

  22. I agree with Tortoise, the crossword is flawed if it takes people 2 weeks/3 months to do. This is too long even for retirees, let alone people who want to start a fresh crossword the next day. A hard crossword should contain one or two inscrutable clues, not half a dozen or more. Rein it in please!

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