Guardian Quiptic 814/Pan

36 comments on “Guardian Quiptic 814/Pan”

1. Thanks Pan and Pierre (sorry Pierre, I’m not on of your lurkers).
   I enjoyed this, but I was baffled by the parsing for ADMIRE – well done, there. However, please, THERM is not a measure of temperature – it’s a measure of energy. See:
   https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Therm

2. The Rufus puzzle was equally suitable for new cryptic solvers- pretty easy but very elegant in its clues

3. Thanks Pan and Pierre;

   This felt right for a Quiptic, but I did have a problem parsing ADMIRE, and TENOR caught me out (I have been trying to do these crosswords for nearly a year now, but am over 70 and for 24d put GAGA).

   I liked READMIT, BALTIMORE, RIGMAROLE, MEADOWLARK, NEIGHBOUR and AVID.

4. muffin @1, if THERM were only a measure of energy, my thermometer would register 0 when I have to use mine; THERM is an abbreviation for ‘thermometer’.

5. I parsed COGNAC as Pierre did, but what has ‘propose’ to do with TABLE ?

6. probably (OCED) ‘bring forward for discussion or consideration at a meeting’ ?

7. Cookie @ 4
   I don’t think “therm” is an abbreviation for “thermometer” (it would cause too much confusion), and even if it was, it would be a “measurer” of temperature, not a “measure”!

8. muffin @7, it is, not a scientific abbreviation, but a colloquial one (admittedly, I have only found it in the American Heritage Abbreviations Dictionary and on a few other abbreviation sites). A thermometer is ‘something to measure temperature’, I can’t see hubby finding your sort of ‘therm’.

9. My favourites were 25a, 28a, 17d, 18a, 19d

   New words for me were WHITE GOODS & BALTI

   I would also like to see comments from some newbies 🙂

   Thanks Pan and Pierre

10. or even some old lurkers!

11. [Anyway, muffin, THERMS are not used by the ‘Gas Board’ anymore, and the clue does not indicate that Hubby is looking for his wife’s jewels.]

12. I, too, would like to see some comments from beginners…

13. [Cookie – I think I see why we are cross-purposes. I was intending to point out the error in the clue rather than Pierre’s explanation.
    Chambers doesn’t give therm = thermometer.]

14. [muffin – I know you were and, after all, there is no point in Hubby measuring temperature if his wife is ‘indisposed’.]

15. Thanks for the parsing of “admire” – I didn’t spot the road connection.

    I’d add my voice to the argument that a therm is not a measure of temperature. Reasonably obvious answer all the same.

16. [Sorry if I sounded a bit tetchy, Cookie – having spent 35 years of my life repeatedly trying to teach Chemistry students the difference between heat and temperature, it is a bit of a sensitive point for me!]

17. [muffin, it is a bit like that problem we always have with ‘energy’ and ‘force; I did ‘A’ level physics and chemistry so know what is annoying you.]

18. A good puzzle as ever from Pan and very enjoyable too. I’m surprised that no-one has admitted to making the stupid mistake that I did. For 14a, without thinking I immediately wrote in Glastonbury. Two things wrong with that: it doesn’t fit and the anagram fodder has no A,S or T. How about Glendeonbury ?. It has an old-fashioned ring to it.
    I did, however, soon work out the correct answer but I had mucked up my puzzle greatly.

    I also liked CHANGES and BALTIMORE. Thanks to the Ps (Pierre and Pan).

19. muffin @7, there are Bi-Therm, Insta-Therm, Agri-Therm, Ref-Therm and Digi-Therm Thermometers, a Tel-Therm Talking Thermometer and a Hot Little Therm all on its own. Seems to be an abbreviation that is quite common.

20. If I were a beginner, I would have ‘really liked this crossword’.
    This is altogether excellent Quiptic level stuff – as Davy says, ‘as ever from Pan’.

    The right-or-wrongness of THERM didn’t cross my mind but it is not right, is it?
    Perhaps, Pan thought ‘therm’ is ‘something to measure heat’ (which it is) and then put ‘to measure heat’ equal to ‘to measure temperature’ (which many people would agree to –
    apart from physicists, of course)?

    I also wondered why Pan added ‘prominent’ to ‘supporter’ in the clue for 18ac.
    And I have my doubts about the link words ‘to go to’ in the GLYNDEBOURNE clue, to indicate (A) ‘gives’ (B).

    Having said all that, a very fine puzzle.

21. Cookie @19
    I would say trade-names rather than abbreviations, but perhaps I am being picky.

    Sil @20
    I hope that you aren’t saying that it’s only important for physicists to know that heat and temperature aren’t the same!

22. muffin, I only tried to have a possible look inside Pan’s head to explain what might have happened.
    Don’t worry, physicists aren’t the only ones.
    Or better: shouldn’t be.
    Because I think when you ask the man in the street to measure the heat, there’s a big chance he/she might start to measure the temperature.

23. cookie @5
    In parliamentary procedure you table (propose) a motion

24. trenodia @23, thanks, could read something Pauline into that.

25. Lurker here – I thought this was an almost perfectly pitched Quiptic for a beginner. I have only been doing cryptics for about 6 months or so, and have seen a fair bit of variation in their difficulty. As others have noted, some quiptics can be harder – and certainly less enjoyable – than the Monday Rufus or a Chifonie. This had some great clues for beginners that help you think about how cryptics work. Baltimore, Tenor, Narcolepsy, Rigmarole were particularly enjoyable.

    Took me just under an hour to solve, and did have to cheat on “Meadowlark,” but greatly enjoyable overall.Thanks, Pan!

26. Looking through the rest of the comments, I agree that “Therm” was the only one that tripped me up. Pretty much the last one I got if I remember correctly.

27. Dan @25, well done, it takes me about 2 hours to solve, and I have been doing cryptics for almost a year now. Mind you, I think it is agreeable not to be too good at them, the quick solvers often seem to feel let down and jaded.

28. Thanks to Pan for the nice easy canter today, and Pierre for the blog; ADMIRE held me up for a while until I grocked that “Material designed to influence behaviour” referred to a 2-letter fragment,

    Methinks the clue precision committee is assuming that “something to measure temperature” refers only to a unit of mesurement. Could it not also refer to a device to measure temperature, in which case THERM would be a valid abbreviation of ‘thermometer?’

29. I see your point, Freddy, but (despite finding a couple of examples with Google), I am entirely unconvinced that “therm” is ever used as an abbreviation for “thermometer”.

30. Cookie – I am still quite liberal, shall we say, with the “check” function, which certainly aids speed. Trying to wean myself off it, but I am still a newbie. When I do the Everyman on Sundays, it certainly takes a lot longer. Off topic, but I’m glad the difficulty of that has come back to a reasonable level after a very frustrating few weeks!

31. Welcome, Dan. Come back and keep telling us how you’re getting on with the Quiptic and Everyman. I agree with you that the latter seems to have settled down to a more accessible level.

32. That must have been the easiest Quiptic I can remember and I’ve been doing them on and off for a few years now. What a difference a week makes though. Last week’s was at the opposite end of the difficulty spectrum

    I agree with the above comments about Therm. It’s a measure of heat (100,000 BTUs or approximately 29.3 kWhrs)

33. Lurker here!
    First let me thank all the bloggers – I started cryptics a few months ago with the Quiptic and the Times Easy, and with your help I’ve gone from getting a few clues to almost finishing one.
    This week I failed on AVID, COGNAC, STRANGLE (I never thought of ‘strange’ for ‘novel, and ADMIRE which I would have got if I hadn’t spelt Narcolepsy wrong.
    My favourite use of ‘Nana’ is in the poignant words of an immortal classic – ‘He looks a proper nana in his great big hobnail boots’ which could be a clue in itself!
    Thanks again

    Brian

34. Welcome, Brian. Sounds like you come from oop north with an expression like that. Keep going and you’ll finish one soon. We were all there at one stage.

    Pierre

35. I’ve left it so late to complete this crossword and make a comment that probably no one will read it. I started trying cryptics about 6 months ago when the repeated comment from my father (aged 91) that I should “stop doing the Kiddies Crossword [Guardian Quick] and try the proper one” finally got to me. He taught me the basics and I’m really enjoying them. I sometimes take days to complete them and prefer to print out archive Quiptics which I can generally do, than flail around with a daily Cryptic which often has me stumped. I can manage Chifonie and some Rufus – which everybody says is easy but I don’t find them so – he doesn’t always follow the rules rigorously. Anyway, I enjoyed this Pan but had to cheat on COGNAC and AVID. Thanks for inviting me to make a comment, Pierre.

36. LoFo, I saw and enjoyed your excellent and interesting comment – just thought I’d say! For reasons far too boring to explain I am filling in the gaps in my Quipticness by working backwards from the present day, assuming that I’ve first done the current one (975 as I write).

    I wonder how you are getting on, three years later? Well, I very much hope.

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