Everyman 3587/5 July

25 comments on “Everyman 3587/5 July”

1. Thank you Pierre and Everyman

   This was an extremely enjoyable puzzle to solve. I am always very pleased with myself when I can parse all the solutions.

   My favourites were HYENA, AMUSEMENT, UNINTERESTING, JOHANNES BRAHMS, DISHONESTY & POLKA DOT (LOI).

   New words for me were READY RECKONER & GREBE.

   * Pierre – I was fine with 1a. Regarding the surface readings of 12a, 18a, 16a, I think that most puzzles have at least one or two surfaces that would only ever be found in cryptic crossword land and not in the real world so I take it all with a grain of salt. I should add that I only do Guardian puzzles so I cannot speak for all the other publications.

2. Unaided, but fairly slow progress. Nice puzzle though. I completed ‘The Times’ on Thursday, and I thought the 2 puzzles were of similar difficulty.

3. Funnily enough Pierre, I intend to make a comparison between the new Everyman and the old, but only because the inclusion of THE LADYKILLERS is the type of cinema-related answer that the old one was fond of. SKIRMISHES was my LOI because I’d made a couple of incorrect assumptions about the clue; with the K checker near the front of the answer I thought the island in the clue was going to be Skye, and with “upper regions” at the end of the clue I thought that it was the definition, and that the answer was going to start with SKY……….. It was only after I’d spent a little time going down that particular blind alley that I decided my assumptions had to be wrong and I looked at the clue from a different perspective. If it was a deliberate misdirection by the setter it was a good one.

4. Thanks Everyman and Pierre.

   Same as for AJK, unaided, but fairly slow progress. I also enjoyed the puzzle.

   I liked SUPPORTER, READY RECKONER, OVERREACH, DISHONESTY, SKIRMISHES and GREBE…

   that reminds me of “the crested grebes are mating!” and hence of Nigel Molesworth.

5. I can’t compare the difficulty level to crosswords by the previous setter as I didn’t start doing the Everyman until recently. I agree with michelle @1 that I don’t expect all cryptic clues to make sense in the real world, though it is nice when they do. They sometimes remind me of Chomsky’s illustration of a sentence which is grammatically correct but complete nonsense – “Colorless green ideas sleep furiously”. I think 16d can make a degree of sense, though, if you interpret it as meaning that Emma was a serious novel (with a “purpose”, and “elevated”) compared with trashier novels which are just “heartless fun”, though I’m not claiming that would be an accurate assessment.

   I too fell for the Skye misdirection (intentional or otherwise) in 14d.

   My favourites were DAY-TO-DAY, READY RECKONER, THE LADYKILLERS and DISHONESTY.

   Thanks to Everyman and Pierre.

6. Very entertaining puzzle and I didn’t find 1a a step too far. I actually thought that DA (TOY)* D AY was quite simple in construction and was also very guessable. I liked ‘mobile ringtone’ which was clever and it was nice to see Emma making a comeback, as she’s not been seen for a while. My last one in was also SKIRMISHES which was indeed well-disguised.

   Many thanks to Pierre and Everyman.

7. Forgot to say. The surface for ‘Spot temperature after dance party’ could relate to someone being hot after energetic dancing. Not the best surface though.

8. Triggered by the words of Pierre in his preamble, I thought it’s time to make a (personal) statement about the Everyman crossword.

   When Colin Gumbrell took over from Alan Scott the puzzles became indeed very different in style and much harder.
   But about a month ago or so, the complexity of the clueing really changed.
   To me it was clear that there had been a discussion at the Observer offices to ‘improve’ things.
   In recent Everymans the level of difficulty has clearly gone down, the clues are less intricate.
   Actually, the one blogged today I found the easiest so far.
   1ac? Nothing too tricky here.
   I fully endorse michelle’s comments on this puzzle.
   Also about surfaces, even if some were indeed below par.

   So, what is my statement?
   Please, don’t compare old and new anymore.
   Stop it, it’s pointless.
   Everyman is as he is now – a setter with his own style.
   And a good one too, in my opinion.

   The style is, unsurprisingly, very Times-like and/but* I like it very much.
   While I think this setter offers good quality for beginners, I also think that we must abandon the idea that the Everyman is the absolute entry-level crossword.
   Is it? Should it be? Who said so?

   I think Alan Scott did an incredible job and gave us some really fine crosswords.
   (and he’s still around in the FT, once or twice a month)
   But now we have to find our way with Colin Gumbrell, different but just as immaculate as a setter.
   The Everyman is still my favourite Sunday morning pastime.
   Perhaps, even more so (oops, did I say that? – sorry Allan).

   Merci Pierre.

9. I agree with sil@8

   You shouldn’t expect the Everyman to be the Prize and vice versa.

   I suspect no one will read this due to the lateness. Let me know if YOU do.

   What’s with the captcha? 9- four. Give me a hard one. One that challenges someone with a Phd in Maths.

   Something like ln(2.71828) for a start and that’s an easy one.

   Now you know which side of the Pacific that I am from.

10. First kiwi in because I did this online. Am home sick with a foul cold. It will be in this weekend’s paper.

    I had to look up Alec Guinness movies and composers with first name Johannes but got the rest unaided even if not all fully parsed (1a and 17d).

    Think this was the easiest of the current genre of Everyman so far. And I hadn’t noticed until I read the blog that there were so many insertion types of clue. Didn’t strike me at the time.

    Thanks Pierre, and I go along with all the other subscribers’ comments.

11. The NZ Herald takes its weekday cryptic and non-cryptic from The Scotsman Double Crossword. I find those relatively easy to complete. They remind me of Allan Scott’s style which I find humourous.

    I find that Colin Gumbrell’s crosswords are on a much higher level of difficulty. I am lucky if I can solve 3 clues. These are not “entry level” or beginners crosswords. I find them very difficult.

    Thank you Pierre and other commentators for providing explanations and clever insights.

12. This is the first one I have managed to complete since the new setter started. Could even parse most but not all e.g. 16d. Hope this is a sign that they’re getting nearer my capabilities. Enjoyed it better this week. Hope your cold is on the mend Barrie.

    Agree with Sil’s comments.

    Thanks Pierre.

13. Like some of the others I got the “Skye” link.
    And I now have Windows 10, wow!

14. I would also endorse Sil’s @8 comments re what we see is what we get so get on with it! (mind you unlike the UK we have very limited choice in this neck of the woods).
    I really enjoyed today’s puzzle. My first run through produced a bare few easy solutions-the hidden ones 5d (that this compiler disguises so well-vespers a few weeks ago took me ages to spot!) and the easy anagrams eg 27a. From then on it required steady progress and fortunately no need to resort to electronic aids. My loi was 14d. In common with others above I was into Skyelights etc but 18a eliminated that and finally the penny dropped. I’m not quite sure what Pierre means wrt surfaces so their absence obviously didn’t cocern me-is it the whole essence of a clue reflecting the separate parts?

    Thanks to Everyman, Pierre and others above-many of us down here are loving the Ashes!

15. Ian, surface means surface reading, ie what the clue says on its non-cryptic reading. A good clue makes sense as a sentence or a little story or a statement. So take one in last week’s DIY COW “Gentle criminal accepts a fine (7)” conjures up a picture of a little old man who accidentally transgresses and takes it on the chin. That’s the surface read, which should also misdirect, as it does here.

    The cryptic reading is “take the word gentle, criminalise it (i.e rough it up a bit, jumble up the letters), insert an ‘a’ , and that should make a word meaning ‘fine’. ”

    A clue for the same word with a meaningless surface but the same construction might be ‘Gentle, is jumbled around a fine’ which works cryptically but doesn’t make any sense.

    If a clue is just a heap of random words which don’t make any sense on a surface read, it does rather spoil the clue’s reading. I sense that Gumbridge has taken to try and make these clues a bit easier than his early ones, but the surfaces have suffered accordingly. Really smooth surfaces can be harder as neither the definition nor the cryptic instruction stick out as much.

16. I had a great time with this one this morning, I was done and dusted by 10 am. I wonder if Mr Gumbrell has taken note of our concerns and has lightened up a tad? Only time will tell.

17. Thanks for your insight Barrie. Locally we have Kropotkin and I find his clues to be extremely convoluted-presumably having no sensible structure which construes with a lack of surface. I feel that this week’s puzzle was much closer to the Ximean concept and did actually have a pertinent structure hence my confusion with Pierre’s comments. They are however distinctly different to those set by Aracuria which tended to be ascerbically cryptic.

18. P S Barrie While you are languishing at home are you enjoying the cricket at Trent Bridge

19. Not a bad crossie this weekend. Managed to get all bar 4dn, 18ac and 14dn. In hindsight should have got both DISHONESTY and UNINTERESTING, which may have helped me resolve SKIRMISHES. I just ran out of time in the end 🙁

    Thanks Everyman and Pierre. Till next weekend.

20. Re: new vs old

    My lowest denomination coins worth here …

    To each his/her own. I had some issues with the new Everyman but like #8 said every setter has their own style and you gotta take it as it comes.

    Thanks again to the new Everyman for providing much enjoyment this weekend.

21. isnt it interesting reading the FOI and the LOI of other solvers. Often very different from mine and i consider myself to be an extreme novice as I can never, ever finish in two hours = nor would I want to. Gives me something to think about as i go about everything else on a saturday….and sunday.
    Sometimes the skilled solvers state their LOI to be one I found quickly or easily.
    Am getting used to this new style, I still find some clues extremely convoluted which spoil it a little amongst so many other clever clues. But every setter has his style, so it’s like it or find something else to do!

22. Long time reader of comments here but first time commenter, and another of the kiwi contingent.
    Unfortunately I have to take Pierre’s side on this one. I don’t think he did compare old and new, but asked of the new setter “what is up with the surfaces??”
    Every one that he he asked about I too had to ask about and failed to solve the clue. The surface is essential. It must make sense at the very least, and I feel that too many don’t make sense.
    For me this is what makes the new setter more difficult, it has turned into a “how many cryptic tricks do you know” exercise at the expense of making sense.
    It’s not the level of difficulty I am not enjoying but the seeming randomness of most of the clues now.

23. Ian @ 18, I certainly was but you don’t seem to get what it says on the tin of a five day test these days.

    I’ve also got a bit ahead of myself with these crosswords and I sense that they are getting slowly better.

24. I will just drop in to say thanks for all the NZ comments – always good to hear from you all.

    As for the Trent Bridge test, I’m surprised you didn’t hear the noise from our house down under when Woody splattered Nathan Lyon’s stumps all over the place. Enough to make a man cry (and I’m not talking about Michael Clarke …)

25. Thanks Pierre.

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