Guardian 26,666 – Imogen

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This looked rather impenetrable at first, but I was lucky to guess the key phrase at 2d etc early on, which gave lots of crossing letters as well as a hint to other answers. Even so, finishing it off was no pushover, but satisfying and good fun. Thanks to Imogen.

As well as the undefined “things the Romans did for us” (highlighted below), we have some related thematic words: MESSIAH, LIFE [of] BRIAN – any others?

 
 
 
 
 
 
Across
7. FISHERY 12 across in curried food business (7)
SH (be quiet, “peace!”) in FIERY
8. MESSIAH Lionel, a hot favourite at Christmas? (7)
MESSI (L. Messi, Argentinian footballer) + A H[ot]. The “favourite at Christmas” refers to Handel’s Messiah, which is often performed around Christmas. (“He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!”)
9. KENT Deal here in broken toys (4)
Hidden in broKEN Toys – Deal is a town in Kent
12. PEACE An expert in the gymnasium? (5)
The expert is a P.E. ACE
13. PODIATRY It helps feet go on platforms (8)
PODIA (platforms) + TRY (go)
15. LIFE Two elements essential to our existence (and to 16 across?) (4)
LI + FE – Lithium and Iron: is Lithium “essential”? Wikipedia says “Trace amounts of lithium are present in all organisms. The element serves no apparent vital biological function, since animals and plants survive in good health without it”. The definition is a reference to the title of the thematic film
16. BRIAN Queen may, we hear, be confused with 8 (5)
Homophone of Bryan (Bryan May, guitarist of the band Queen) – Brian was mis-identified as the Messiah in the film Thanks to Flavia – the guitarist is Brian May; so what is “we hear” doing?
17. ALAS A girl, not a son? I’m not happy about that (4)
A LAS[S]
18. MEDICINE Brief order to stop working (8)
EDIC[T] in MINE
20. MAULS Savages bad housing that holds area back (5)
A in reverse of SLUM
22. DUEL Expected learner to get to the end of Pushkin (4)
DUE + L – Pushkin was killed in a duel: the last of many that he fought in his life
24. EPISTLE Paul had one for 10 (7)
Barely-cryptic definition once you know that 10 is THE ROMANS, whom St Paul wrote an epistle to
25. BRACKET B___ awful noise made by group together (7)
B + RACKET
Down
1. WINE Home adopted by the Guardian (4)
IN in WE
2, 10, 23, 21ac. WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US Excuse me? Did some old people at any time cause our ruin? That’s a funny revolutionary line (4,4,3,6,4,4,3,2)
WHAT (Excuse me?) HAVE THE ROMANS (Did some old people) EVER (at any time) DONE FOR US (cause our ruin), giving the famous line from Monty Python’s Life of Brian, and the things that the Romans did provide the undefined answers. Anyone who’s been living under a rock for the past 35-odd years can see the relevant scene here.
3. WRITHE Feel shame, seeing horse in pen (6)
H in WRITE
4. BEHOLDEN Obliged to look over opponents (8)
BEHOLD + E, N (opponents in Bridge)
5. ASMARA A short clever answer is capital (6)
A SMAR[T] + A – the capital of Eritrea
6. MARS Bog briefly venerated by 10 (4)
MARS[H]
11. EN PRIMEUR Drink while young — make mine purer when brewed (2,7)
(MINE PURER)* – En primeur describes buying wine bought at an early stage, e.g. for investment purposes
12. POISE Sit, keeping one’s balance (5)
I in POSE
14. ROADS A part of Norfolk that’s not British (5)
BROADS less B
16. BRIM-FULL Firm moves into sort of market with no room left (4-4)
FIRM* in BULL (kind of market)
17. AQUEDUCT A line abandoned by Europe, avoided in hearing (8)
A + QUEUE less EU + homophone of “ducked” (avoided)
19. IONISE To remove electrons from position is easy (6)
Hidden in positION IS Easy
20. MYSORE What hurts me in Indian city (6)
What hurts me is MY SORE
21. DUPE Patsy‘s English, looked down on by Irish party (4)
DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) + E

38 comments on “Guardian 26,666 – Imogen”

  2. Oops, you’re quite right, Flavia! So what is “we hear” doing there? Is it to get over the fact the “may” in the clue isn’t capitalised?

  3. Follow-up to 20dn.
    It doesn’t hurt me anymore.
    Just as the anglicised Bangalore has been renamed Bengaluru as in Kannada, Mysore is now Mysuru. ‘Uru’ is Kannada for ‘town, city’.

  4. Thanks Andrew. I confess to having been baffled by a lot of this, despite getting the Life of Brian quote a third of the way through. The theme eluded me, especially MEDICINE, and I couldn’t parse 1A. But it was clever, and I did quite enjoy completing it.

  5. Thanks for another great blog, Andrew [and for providing the link, saving me the bother of looking for it].

    What fun! I loved it from beginning to end.

    My first themed entry was ROADS – I lived near the Norfolk Broads as a teenager – which soon led to 2dn etc, so I knew I was in for a treat. Really clever, wittily-linked cluing – this would have made a great Prize puzzle.

    Huge thanks to Imogen – I really didn’t want this to end.

  7. Wow – this was a stunningly good crossword, and thoroughly enjoyable to solve. As Eileen said, entering the final answer made you feel sad that there was no more, rather than victorious. I’ve never really clicked with Imogen before, but this was delightful.

    Initially I had WINE and EN PRIMEUR in, so smugly felt well on top of how this theme was going to develop. Then later, even with the keyphrase in, was utterly baffled as to how ROADS and PEACE had any WINE connection.

    Lovely Penny Drop Moment.

    Mmmm…wonderful start to the day – that’s one I will remember for years to come.

    Many many thanks to Imogen, and Andrew for the enthusiastic blog and MEDICINE explanation.

  8. I was fortunate to get MESSIAH as my FOI, and then BRIAN, and so the long phrase came quite soon afterwards. This picked my mood up considerably, and I tackled the rest with an optimistic smile. But, it was still a deflating struggle through to the end. I have nothing but admiration for setters who can squeeze so much guile, cleverness and connectivity into a few black and white squares. Thank you Andrew for a very helpful blog.

  9. Thanks Imogen and Andrew.

    Just crawled back under my rock having been stunned by the brilliance of the puzzle. What fun, but very hard for me to solve, so extra thanks to Andrew for the blog and the link.

  10. I got Life and Brian early so the long phrase came early for me, but I then started looking for other Monty Python references egged on by the fact that Patsy is the guy that bangs the coconuts for King Arthur. My loss as this was brilliant, thanks also to Andrew.

    I took life as being “essential to existence” rather than Li and Fe being essential to Life.

  12. I gave up on this with nine clues unsolved and, having reviewed the solutions, am quite happy that I didn’t persevere. Rather dull, considering the wit of the theme.

  13. Although undoubtedly clever, I found this a slog. Too many answers went in unparsed and I had to use various ‘aids’ too often.

    I got WINE and EN PRIMEUR first (though I needed google to confirm the latter as I know very little about wine), so I was initially misled about the theme. ROADS and then EPISTLE led me to THE ROMANS, though, and hence to the correct theme. I don’t know why it took me until near the end to think of it as the film quote, as it’s one of my favourite films. Till then I was just thinking of it as being the general question which long pre-dates the film.

    I did like some of the clues, particularly FISHERY (though curries are not always fiery), PEACE, BRACKET, ROADS and IONISE.

    Thanks to Imogen and Andrew.

  14. I get the Guardian iPad edition and do the crossword there. Fine, except that any special instructions are not included. On this occasion it took me a while to realise that there must be SIs here (the penny dropped when I solved 1dn and saw that the definition was missing). At that point I went to the online version and found the SIs. I’m not sure why they can’t find a way to include them on the iPad edition, but it does add an extra level of intrigue!

  16. I thought this was going to be very difficult when I only had one solution in 10 minutes, but ASMARA led to MESSIAH which got me thinking of Romans, and led to the key. The last few (FISHERY, WRITHE and MEDICINE) were tricky too, but overall this was a very enjoyable challenge, which would have made a good prize puzzle. LIKED MESSIAH, ALAS and IONISE.

    Thanks to Imogen and Andrew.

  17. Thanks to Imogen and Andrew. I made no progress initially, but getting MARS led me to ROMANS and finally the quote and the theme. I needed Andrew’s parsing to understand FISHERY, MEDICINE, and DUPE (the DUP party was new to me). I got [B]ROADS and AQUEDUCT from the theme rather than the parsing. All in all, very tough going for me (much harder than many recent prize puzzles).

  18. 11d, I think the definition ‘Drink while young’ points to vin PRIMEUR, for example Beaujolais nouveau, a more apt definition might have been ‘Drink when mature’, wines bought EN PRIMEUR are not usually drunk when young.

  19. Thanks Imogen for an excellent puzzle and Andrew for the blog.

    Cookie @ 18, I hope I’m not misinterpreting you, but I see ‘drink’ in the clue as a noun not a verb, hence thee definition leading to EN PRIMEUR is ‘(a) drink while (it is) young’, most en primeur wines being bought, I believe, while they are still in barrel, with a number of years to go till they are bottled.

  20. Yes a very good puzzle well writte. Of course there is the problem that people who do not know the theme will be bored, but Life of Brian is so well-known that it is reasonable to expect most people to be okay with it.

    I didn’t like 16, I think it’s probably one of those Guardian goofs.

  22. I found this a slog. Rather than wishing it would never end I thought it never would. Far too many went in unpaired. I got THE ROMANS quite early on but it wasn’t until I got BRIAN and MESSIAH that the penny dropped but even then I didn’t see the other connections until I’d finished. I found the last Imogen puzzle quite agreeable but I can’t say I enjoyed this much.
    Thanks anyway Imogen.

  23. like @2, I thought the homophone indicator in 16a might address capitalisation, which would be a new trick for me.

    I am in awe of the brilliant construction of this puzzle. Missed the Pushkin reference. I thought EPISTLE was very clever. Also REALLY liked 19d IONISE AND 13a PODIATRY.

    many thanks Imogen and Andrew

  24. I’m with the ‘found it a bit of a slog’ brigade, I’m afraid. I got the gateway clue fairly early, but really struggled with much of the rest. WRITHE for ‘feel shame’? Not in our house. It’s probably in a dictionary somewhere, but I’d lost interest by then and gave up with half a dozen to go. But I’m not a big fan of these ‘undefined’ puzzles, so I’ll just say thank you to S&B and that I’m pleased others have enjoyed it.

  25. Kathryn’s Dad @24
    I doubted WRITHE too but, as you suggested, that definition does appear in at least one online dictionary. To me, writhing is what you may do when you feel shame, not the feeling itself.

  26. Sorry but I also didn’t find this marvellous or witty. Just a slog which I finished because I refused to be beaten.

    I’ve never seen Life of Brian as the few minutes I have stumbled upon convinced me it was a film written by idiots for idiots. (plus it was dull )

    However having got 6D it was a reasonable guess that 10A was THE ROMANS. Miraculously from there I guessed the quote. (I did have the T in WHAT and the F in FOR). Looking this up gave me the Life of Brian link and the text around the quote. So from then on I was as good as a LoB fan 🙂

    The film and the puzzle are possibly too clever for me! 😉

    Thanks to Andrew and Imogen

  27. We liked this puzzle very much but found it hard to finish.
    5d could have been ASTANA (known to us but not fitting the clue) or ASMARA (unknown to us but fitting the clue).
    Funny to see that ‘the Romans’ venerated MARS (6d) while bringing PEACE (12d).

    Two more things:

    – Imogen almost certain added ‘we hear’ in 16d to distinguish ‘may’ from ‘May’.
    As such a good thing to do but the question is: can ‘may’ and ‘May’ -one lower case, one upper case – be considered as homophones?

    – Furthermore to ‘false capitalisation’, without starting a discussion whether it’s allowed or not (!):
    if you are, like me (and, I suggest, Imogen too) not in favour of ‘false capitalisation’, how do you think about 9ac?
    ‘Kent’ is hidden with a lower case ‘k’ – does that make a difference?
    Note: this is only an interesting question for those who are against ‘false capitalisation’.

    Thanks Andrew & Imogen.

  29. Phew! Most difficult puzzle for a long time as far as I was concerned. I sort of enjoyed it, but there were some very tough clues. Thanks nevertheless to Imogen, and to Andrew.

  30. I’m disheartened to learn from Andrew that I’ve been living under a rock for thirty five years. Though never having seen this film, the defining phrase eventually came; the first word was clearly WHAT which left 26 letters – with “funny” and “ruin” as possible anagrinds. So some joy lost there. And I couldn’t readily see how medicine fitted as well as the other four since I would have thanked other civilizations and our own islands for such before ever the Romans – I presume the Python clip makes reference. Notwithstanding, there were some clues I enjoyed but I am bound to own that I also found Imogen’s last outing far more pleasurable. I enjoyed Monty Python in its televisual heyday but fell out of love as it became more acceptable to the mainstream. My punishment for such anarchic snobbery was the meagreness of my fun here. But never before have I been dissed, and by one who doesn’t know me, as some Gormenghastly subrock dweller!
    A fantastic blog though, I thought and thanks to Imogen for the cleverness. Wx

  32. Like a couple of other commenters, I found this a slog that I completed out of sheer cussedness. Today’s Guardian crossword was just as bad.

  34. Thanks Imogen and Andrew

    I’ll balance the tail of these posts with a great big YES for this puzzle. Didn’t remember the quote but guessed most of it and googled the rest after getting THE ROMANS and a lot of the letters of WHAT HAVE.

    Found that there was much work (which I certainly didn’t find a slog!) to be done to finish the puzzle out. On coming here was surprised at how much correcting to my parsing that was required.

  36. Excellent crossword.

    A real battle – 5 clues that don’t parse in their own right but do so as a class, linked to 2d. Fabulous.

    Imogen’s crosswords have been getting better and better – right now, she is holding a candle to Enigmatist.

  37. Couldn’t agree more with Jon Bell. Great red herrings too with LIFE and BRIAN, thinking they were in the theme! Imogen beat me too – didn’t get MEDICINE and wasn’t happy with WINE. Only got the theme when I spotted what seemed to be the unsatisfactory unparsed clues. The dawning of my addled brain was a moment of crossword joy! Thanks Imogen.

  38. …my only small frustration (with the guardian, and certainly not with ‘Immy’) is that you can’t use the alphabetical list on the side to scroll through her previous efforts.

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