Guardian 26,789 / Rufus

64 comments on “Guardian 26,789 / Rufus”

1. Thanks Rufus and Eileen

   Usual strenghts and weaknesses of a Rufus puzzle. Working through the across clues I wrote in DECORATORS for 20a – just as valid wihtout the crossers. I know that this is a “crossword”, but I think a clue that doesn’t have a unique solution without needing crossers is a poor one.

   I looked for futher meaning in ESKIMO and couldn’t find any. IMPLY must be one of the easiest “cryptic” clues ever (even with the mmissing “is”).

   On the other hand there were some lovely ones. ROYAL MARINES was a great anagram with some &lit character, and the definition for DECREE NISI made me laugh.

2. The surfaces were admirably smooth as usual, but I agree that EXTRADITES was rather dubious (not even cryptic), and I don’t know what to say about ESKIMO! I liked NOODLE, DONKEY WORK and DECREE NISI. Thanks to Rufus and Eileen.

3. All pretty straightforward even by Rufus standards, except that I had to guess SLOPE because the arms usage was unfamiliar

   Thanks to Eileen and Rufus

4. Hi muffin

   Re IMPLY – cf the one from Logodaedalus, which I’ve quoted several times: ‘Clumsy when giving ring to a fish (6)’. [I’ve just looked it up and found that it was seven years ago!]

5. beery hiker, are you really saying you never watched Camberwick Green? 😉

6. Eileen @4
   That required several seconds more thought than IMPLY!

7. Eileen @5 – I remember Windy Miller, but I’m afraid the Major and his orders are lost to the mists of time!

8. Thanks Eileen and Rufus. Some good stuff (eg 8d) but ESKIMO, YIELDED, EXTRADITES & UNLOAD belong in a quick crossword. Muffin @1, I was a DECORATORS person too,

9. Thanks Rufus and Eileen.

   I was stuck for a while on EXTRADITES, so it was cryptic for me, I must be a NOODLE, and SLOPE in that sense was new. I had no problem with PLASTERERS, a more apt answer than ‘decorators’.

   Some anagrams were really good, ROYAL MARINES in particular, and DECREE NISI made me laugh!

10. I’m another with DECORATORS first. Glad there was nothing more to ESKIMO, for otherwise I would have had no idea what was going on. Perhaps because of all the barely-cryptics, this was my slowest Rufus solve for some time!

11. Hi beery hiker @7 [and anyone else who didn’t know the expression]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsqnzVZ_ASg

    [and Windy Miller’s there, too. 😉 ]

12. Thsnks Rufus and Eileen
    Like several others hoped to find an explanation for Eskimo here….
    On the other hand I really liked Royal marines and Decree Nisi

13. Thanks Eileen and Rufus
    The usual fare but harder than some in parts.
    I nearly went for Imam in 1d.
    I didn’t much take to 28a – I suppose he couldn’t resist the frozen/ chosen rhyme. Inuit seems to be preferred these days too.

14. hi Tupu

    ‘God’s frozen people’ is an expression – and has been used as the title of a book.

15. Hi Eileen
    Thanks. I should have known that but don’t recall coming across it.

16. Thanks Rufus & Eileen.

    For GFP, see this. [If this hyperlink doesn’t work, you have to right-click first.] I think there is a form/from typo in the blog for 12. I’m always doing that and the autocorrect doesn’t think there is anything wrong…

    I can’t say that I’ve seen Camberwick Green, or perhaps I’ve just forgotten it. It was a bit of a PDM, however, when I got SLOPE. I also thought of painters and decorators but they wouldn’t fit in.

    I liked DECREE NISI and the Royal Marines.

17. [Robi – I added a further explanation of the ethanal/acetaldehyde name change on the Screw thread for you.]

18. Thanks muffin @17, corrected URL here: For GFP see this.

19. Thanks Rufus and Eileen

    Nothing much of note other than the curious ESKIMO and the very clever ROYAL MARINES (anagram) and DECREE NISI (one of his best cds). It took my average 20 mins for a Rufus to complete.

    Finished in the NE corner with NOTICE, DECREE NISI EXTRADITES the last few in

20. Thanks to Eileen for the blog. Your note @14 adds something useful to ESKIMO. I’ve never heard the term but I can understand it.

    I’m another who started with DECORATORS. I disagree with Cookie@9: this is just as apt as the other.

21. I took 24 dn to be “Crazy about” = MAD packed with (E)nergy = MEAD.

    I went for decorators, too, but had no complaints when I realised it was wrong.

    Thanks Eileen and Rufus

22. I wanted it to be “decorators” but the crossers put paid to that.ADAM took some time to get for some reason as there was nothing wrong with the clue
    Otherwise, par for the course.
    Thanks Rufus.

23. Isn’t 4 a dd rather than cd?

24. Chas @20, well, PLASTERERS are usually ‘coated’ in PLASTER, are DECORATORS ‘coated’ in DECOR?

25. Thanks to Rufus and Eileen. I had no trouble with PLASTERERS but SLOPE as a command was new to me and my first try was “upload” rather than UNLOAD. I too had trouble spotting ADAM (my last in). Enjoyable as always with this setter.

26. I was on the move with this – on buses and in a coffee shop – and this was a very pleasant way to pass the time.

    Eileen, I noted all the question marks in your blog, and I agree with them all. Thank you for your blog.

    I was a decorator (20A) too, like so many others, but, as often with Rufus, I didn’t dare put it in until I got an additional crosser. I agree with Cookie that ‘plasterer’ is more apt.

    I knew ‘slope arms’ never having watched Camberwick Green. Sad, I know.

    Thanks also to Rufus.

27. Hi Robi

    Thanks for the link – which I very nearly gave in the blog!
    I don’t understand “I think there is a form/from typo in the blog for 12.” – I did mean to write ‘form’: it’s a bit convoluted but I didn’t think ‘to get it’ was sufficient as an indicator. In fact, the whole surface is rather odd for Rufus. Who hurries?

    Derek @23 – I initially had 4 down as a dd but, when I came to write up the blog, I couldn’t find two separate things to underline: also, Chambers has ‘to slope arms: to place or hold a rifle at the slope’.

28. Thanks Rufus and Eileen.

    I was another who started with DECORATORS on the basis that they apply coats of paint. Very appropriate, as I’m having a house refurbished at the moment, and we’re at the painting stage. Didn’t think at first of plasterers as he’s finished his work and gone!

29. Thanks all
    Muffin @1, and several others over time: this is the most ridiculous complaint I can imagine.
    I could claimed ‘fred’ at 1d or ‘port’ at 24d, which s just silly.

30. RCW @29
    Not at all. Neither FRED nor PORT are valid solutions to the clues that you mention; on the other hand DECORATORS is a perfectly reasonable answer to 20a.

31. Cookie @24: decorators put coats of paint on walls

32. Even looser than usual for both Rufus and our illustrious ed!

    I had the perfectly reasonable “MAMA” for 1D but wasn’t too upset when I saw that the crossers meant this couldn’t be.(Sorry Muffin but these things are called “Crosswords”)

    I must add my vote for DECORATORS being an equally apt answer for 20A

    a) because I had it for a while

    and

    b) because the controversy might at least generate some entertainment. (Something sadly lacking in the puzzle)

    Thanks to Eileen and Rufus

33. Just to weigh in with my two-penneth on the decorators/plasterers argument, yes, decorators put paint on walls, but they also put it on doors, window frames, skirting boards etc etc. As far as I am aware, plasterers only put plaster on walls (and, admittedly, ceilings). So I think Cookie is right.

34. Rullytully @33
    That decorators paint doors and window frames doesn’t mean that they don’t also leave coats on walls….

35. That’s ambiguous to me, but I don’t really leave my coat on the wall, I leave it on a hook. That’s why I think it’s a bit weal, not just the decorators/ plasterers thing.

36. Sorry, ‘weak’.

37. Chas @31, of course they do, but they are not just ‘PAINTERS’, i.e. they are not wearing ‘coats’ of paint, besides which they do many other things…

38. I enjoyed this but was also puzzled by ESKIMO. But I just assumed it was some sort of British reference or saying that hasn’t reached the antipodes and moved along.

    No one has mentioned ‘silly’ doing double duty in NOODLE as both anagram indicator and definition. I don’t think I’ve seen this before in my admittedly limited experience (mainly quiptics). Is this one of those “guardianisms” I read about from time to time? The clue was easy enough to solve though.

39. I’m baffled by the comments @ 35 and 37. The clue is a very good cryptic definition for PLASTERERS; the problem that I have is that it is also a very good cryptic definition for DECORATORS. I really don’t see how “wearing” or “leaving it on a hook” comes into it.

40. muffin @ 39

    heated agreement…

    cont p 94

41. Simon @40
    🙂 – can’t wait to read p 94.

42. muffin @ 41

    I think we’ve all been in that state since about 1969…

43. muffin @39, of course ‘they’ don’t, just an extra fun ‘layers’ to the clue…

44. sorry, that should read ‘just extra fun layers to the clue…’

45. Well I’m going to stick my neck out and disagree with @1 – if you can get it without the crossers, it’s not a crossword, it’s just a riddle. The ones that annoy me are where it’s still insolubly ambiguous after you’ve got the crossers.

    Thanks to Rufus and Eileen!

    (9 x six = – I was so tempted to put 42!)

46. I’m with Ralph @45. There is nothing wrong with needing crossers to choose between options, as long as those crossers make the answer unique.

    This one was much as I expect from a Monday Rufus – enjoyable, with some very nice clues (my favourites being the popular DECREE NISI and ROYAL MARINES) but also some rather dubious ones (particularly ESKIMO).

    Thanks, Rufus and Eileen.

47. But isn’t it supposed to be a joke about where people leave their coats, as in garments? I agree (heatedly?) about the ambiguity thing, but my beef would be (coz I don’t really mind) with the ‘other’ meaning.

    Re ‘crossers’ yes indeed, that’s what they’re for, to make the other clues easier to solve. But I’m going to disagree (coolly?) with Ralph and Jenny and say that each clue should be soluble in its own right: the compiler should lose gracefully in each clue, and I’d say that Rufus, with all his wealth of experience, does exactly that.

48. I must thank Brendan for spicing up the crossword blog, or at least for bringing that about by his provocative invitation (@32).

    The ‘cd’ is my least favourite type of clue (I’m sure I remember today’s blogger Eileen also saying that not long ago), simply because there is no secondary indication to the answer or the parts of the answer.

    When (@26) I sided with Cookie (@9) and others in saying that the actual answer PLASTERERS was more apt than ‘decorators’ I did so instinctively, but I think I was right. If I allowed myself to use a cd clue in a crossword (which I don’t, by the way – not as an absolute rule but as one demanding good justification), I would not use Rufus’s clue for ‘decorators’ but I would, as he did, for ‘plasterers’.

    The reason is that decorators don’t necessarily leave any coats on walls or anywhere (if the job is wallpapering, for example), whereas plasterers always(?) do – if not on walls then on ceilings. I would expect to get nul points for my clue, and a pasting on this page, if my answer was ‘decorators’.

    Rufus got it right, within a set of rules that allows cd clues. He would have to put ‘may’ near the beginning or ‘if they are painting’ at the end of the clue if it was for ‘decorators’ rather than ‘plasterers’ (this is meant to sound ridiculous), which would weaken the clue somewhat, or make it weaker than it already is.

49. If it’s a valid argument to say that decorators don’t always leave “coats” on walls then that’s also true of plasterers.

    Some days all they do is take coats off wallS 😉

    So now are the “more apters” going to say that plasterers leave coats on walls more often than decorators. (This argument is getting weaker)

50. Alan Browne @48

    Purely for the record:

    “The ‘cd’ is my least favourite type of clue (I’m sure I remember today’s blogger Eileen also saying that not long ago)…”

    I don’t remember saying this. I do remember saying [but, irritatingly, I can’t find it] that *charades* were not [usually] my favourite type of clue [which is not the same as saying they’re my least favourite!] when commenting on a particularly good one.

51. Eileen (@50)

    I accept what you say, of course, and I’m sorry that my memory failed me.

52. Brendan

    I’m not sure how your post @49 either answers or refutes mine @48. Perhaps it wasn’t mine you were addressing.

    As you realise, I said, in effect, that plasterers always(?) leave coats somewhere but decorators don’t. The ‘?’ was in my earlier post because I wasn’t totally sure of this. If Rufus had said ‘on the wall or ceiling’ it would have been awfully clunky, and he took a justifiable liberty with that.

    The answer to your statement/question at the end [‘So now are the “more apters” going to say that plasterers leave coats on walls more often than decorators.’] is ‘No – why should they?’

    Thanks for joining in what you started!

53. Thanks, Alan – no need for apology: my memory fails me all too often! But I really don’t think I said that – it depends on the cd!

54. Eileen
    I definitely remember you saying that you don’t like “Spooner” clues – that registered as I don’t eitehr!

55. Eileen

    Further to my comment @51, I now find that I even mis-stated my own rule about cryptic definitions. I’m not doing too well here!

    My rules are unwritten, but I do normally remember them. A cd, like all types of clue, should lead to a unique answer. That may not be a universal view, but it may be why there has been such a discussion about 20A here. Rufus might have allowed more than one answer here (but I’m not sure that he did), and with some people that is clearly ok.

56. Brendan, perhaps you are plastered?

57. Sorry, that should be Alan Browne! captcha ? – 4 = 0.

58. muffin @54

    I actually like spoonerisms, as I do homophones, both of which are to do with the way words/phrases are spoken. I usually find both types difficult, but that’s why I like them.

    But I don’t like spoonerisms and homophones that don’t work! There have been a few fairly recent examples – two homophones (I mean homophone pairs, of course) in the same puzzle and a spoonerism in another.

59. Cookie @56/57

    No – he says hurriedly – surely not!

    Some posts I write too quickly for my own good, and no. 48 is one example of that. I practically always read them once through before committing, and this time I didn’t see any typos but missed a more substantial kind of error.

60. re 20a – STUCCOISTS would also answer the riddle, but it doesn’t work in the grid. Just like THEKIDSTHATUSEDTOPLAYFOOTBALLINTHEPLAYGROUNDATMYOLDSCHOOL. And just like DECORATORS. Seems like an awful lot of argument over what is just a personal preference as to whether clues should have single solutions.

61. Hi again muffin @54 [I’ve been out!]

    Again, purely for the record and, again, it depends: many of the ‘Spoonerism’ clues aren’t Spoonerisms at all. I have seen some very witty ones, but, again, can’t find them! The one I remember particularly is Goliath’s clue for PHILISTINE [his alter ego], involving something like ‘Mathilda’s OK’. Too often, they simply lead to meaningless phrases and the mention of Spooner is simply a lazy way of indicating the exchange of initial letters.

    Some examples attributed to Spooner himself:

    You hissed my mystery lecture / you missed my history lecture
    Our queer old Dean / our dear old Queen
    We’ll have the hags flung out / we’ll have the flags hung out
    You’ve tasted two worms / you’ve wasted two terms
    A half-warmed fish / a half-formed wish

62. Plaster man tops the list of the ten best Spoonerisms in the Independent.

63. Enjoyed it this week. We certainly like 20 ac and the commotion it’s causing. Royal marines and beverage were our other favourites, so it’s drinks all round.

64. Thanks Eileen and Rufus.

    It was Monday. It was Rufus. Some barely cryptic, many ‘is that it?’ moments, and then the odd gem – APPEARANCE looks poor on the surface but actually rather clever on second thoughts.

    So worth the effort.

Comments are closed.