Guardian 26,874 / Imogen

66 comments on “Guardian 26,874 / Imogen”

1. Thanks Imogen and Gaufrid

   Though I got to WELLS FARGO before entering one, it then went quite quickly, though I didn’t parse ALL FOR ONE.

   Imogen obviously isn’t particularly concerned that his surfaces make sense – there were some pretty meaningless ones here.

   Some technical issues: ANNELID needs each M to re replaced by N; the clue implies only one N. 8d “adult boobs” isn’t referred to by the anagram indicator. 17d no indication of US usage (though it was easy enough).

   Favourite was STAFFORD.

2. Thanks, Gaufrid and Imogen.

   My experience was much as yours, and after the slow start steadily got there in the end. I needed explanations for 19ac, 4, 7, 18 d.

   I put HOLD ON for 13ac at first, which held me up for a while. And I must remember FATS for DOMINO in future – I am sure we have had this several times.

   UNLEARNT last in as the anagram didn’t yield for ages.

   I liked “One working the soil”; I was trying to find something LAD.

3. I think this was the easiest Imogen yet, but no complaints, since the clueing is top class. First in was the lovely ALL FOR ONE, except that I stupidly wrote ONE FOR ALL, fortunately that wasn’t too costly since DIATRIBE couldn’t be anything else. Last in was ANNELID. Didn’t think of rugby for 22 – I persuaded myself he was talking pontoon/blackjack.

   Thanks to Gaufrid and Imogen

4. Thank you, Gaufrid.

   I haven’t had a happy time with this setter in the past but I enjoyed this.

   The long downs yielded first, with steady but slow progress thereafter.

   Favourites included SKIN DEEP, TOLD, DIATRIBE & ANNELID.

   Slightly surprised to see 3 quite clunky anagrams nun alert, medic adult boobs & heat think ice not, but nevertheless, it’s no easy task to screw DISCOMBOBULATED into a crossword.

   The setter has shown no small knowledge of Rugby Union to clue TWENTY TWO that way.

   Held up for quite a time trying to find either a cloak or a pizza in the Domino’s clue.

   The let’s be having you clue took me a while to spot and I’m still not sure about it. It’s perfectly getable but shouldn’t there be some reference to policemen or suchlike?

   All in all, an enjoyable solve, many thanks, Imogen.

   Nice week, all.

5. muffin @1
   Sorry but I cannot agree with you. I think in 3dn that it is quite clear that you need to replace M with N twice and in 8dn MEDIC is struggling with ADULT BOOBS.

6. Thanks, Gaufrid, for explaining the parsing of 4d and 18d, which both flummoxed me.
   muffin @1. Surely in 8d the “with” is enough to include “adult boobs” in the anagram fodder.

7. Muffin @1 I take your points but the DILEMMA clue does call for two metres to be changed. That’s fair enough, isn’t it?

   Also surely fall has become sufficiently well-known not to require a US usage reference.

8. Gaufrid, apologies – crossing.

9. For me, this proved a most enjoyable solve. Like William@4, I found early help was provided by the two clever long anagrams at 2d and 8d. I must admit that I sometimes show off by using DISCOMBOBULATED to describe a muddled state of mind (sometimes in relation to The Guardian Cryptic!). Like Dave Ellison @2, I was a bit thrown by my mistake in 13a, where I saw “Wait” as “HOLD ON” instead of “HOLD IT”. Again I had to kick myself for “holding on” when such a small error can prove an impediment to a satisfactory solve. My personal favourites were 5a RAG TRADE and 20d TOTEMIC. Thanks to Imogen, Gaufrid and the online community.

10. muffin @1 – I’m with Gaufrid @5 – given that Imogen is said to be a former Times crossword editor, you are unlikely to get much support when arguing such technicalities, though I agree that some of the surfaces are a bit clunky.

11. Thank you Gaufrid and Imogen

    I enjoyed the puzzle, with my favourites being ALL FOR ONE, FALL DUE & STAFFORD.

    New word for me was annelid but it was well clued and I had thought of dilemma immediately.

    I needed help to parse 23a and 4d – and still do not understand it as I know nothing at all about rugby!

12. …’course, in my day we had ‘proper’ 25 yard dropouts, none of your modern, foreign nonsense…&c

    Thanks Imogen, gentler for those with that (Tuesday after Bank Holiday) Monday Morning Feeling.

    Thanks Gaufrid for the, as usual, flawless blog.

13. Thanks Gaufrid and Imogen.

    An enjoyable puzzle, with some great clues, but I have to agree with muffin about some of the surfaces.

    On this glorious morning in Leicester, I smiled as I solved 27ac. Eden Hazard has cropped up in crossword clues several times in the last couple of years. I’d never heard of him before – my interest in the round-ball football game is relatively new-found 😉 – but I certainly shan’t forget him now!

14. Thank you Imogen and Gaufrid.

    STAFFORD was the first in and from there the other answers fell into place, but I failed to fully parse LETS BE and TWENTY-TWO. Favourite was ALL FOR ONE!

15. Lovely puzzle with neat cluing. Had to look up ANNELID; couldn’t parse TWENTY-TWO or ALL FOR ONE, but both are fair enough. Favourites were STAFFORD, SKIN-DEEP, FALLS DUE and FOYER. Many thanks to Imogen and Gaufrid.

16. Straight in with STRAIT (no comment) at 1, then very smartly put in ‘The Times’ for 5a, patting myself on the head that I’d been so quick to see the clever answer. Took quite a while to recover after that. Had no idea about LETS BE, but the parsing of the rest wasn’t too bad.

    Particularly enjoyed STAFFORD, FALL DUE, SKIN-DEEP and DISCOMBOBULATED (one of my favourite words).

    Thanks to Imogen and Gaufrid.

17. WordPlodder @16

    I also wanted to say that I love that word – discombobulated – and when I saw the clue it jumped straight out at me.

18. With regard to Let’s Be, you may find it amusing that Letsby Avenue is a quarter-mile road in Sheffield in which the only building is a police station.

19. Thanks Imogen & Gaufrid.

    I thought this was gentler than many Imogen’s, helped by getting 1 strait away. I could kick myself (or maybe a ball) for not parsing 4 correctly. I thought it was something to do with dropping one from TWENTY-TWO gives twenty-one, the last of a youthful age (doh!)

    I was another ‘hold on’ for 13 at first. I particularly like LETS BE now that Gaufrid has explained it to me.

20. I enjoyed this. I hadn’t heard of ANNELID, but after getting the crossers it was reasonably gettable. I missed the rugby meaning at 4D and, like beery hiker, thought it might be a reference to pontoon.

    I liked the reference to Fats Domino at 16A. It might have helped that I was just listening to him the other day. “The Fat Man” has a good claim to be the first rock and roll record – though there are many other contenders!

    Eileen @13 – congratulations on your team’s wonderful success. I see from the “setters” link that Imogen is a Chelsea fan, so we might have expected a different clue to the “Eden” part of 27A. (Incidentally, am I the only one to have been surprised on finding out that a setter called Imogen is a man?)

21. Hello JimS @20, I made the same mistake a few months ago. I blame Shakespeare, but the name can take either gender.

    A bit laboured in places, but there are some good devices in place. The Domino I thought was a stone, so I was looking for a ST***ONE town – seems reasonable – until cross = FORD passed through my brain. The ALL FOR ONE substitution was very neat.

22. muffin @1 When using “nitrogen” in 3, the setter could be referring to the element rather than the symbol for it, i.e. N2 not N 🙂

    Loved the clue for DISCOMBOBULATED. I missed the parsing of DERWENT, so bifd it. Thanks for the explanation, Gaufrid, and thanks for the puzzle, Imogen.

23. phitonelly @22, brilliant, the gas is N2, i.e. the molecules of nitrogen in the air.

24. Conrad Cork @ 18: I was under the impression that a friend of mine had showed me a very short road in East Finchley called Letsby Avenue that contains a block of police flats; but on googling this, it doesn’t seem to exist. The only explanation I can rustle up is that I was listening to a programme about False Memory Syndrome on the car radio this morning!

25. Had a good laugh at discombobulated , a friend of many years. Then found out the other day from a relative in the US that the areA in the airport where one puts back together all the bits that one had to remove for security screening is labelled the recombibulation area. Who is having the last laugh? Thanks to setter and blogger. ANNA from aus

26. JimS @20 – thanks for pointing out that Imogen now has a link on the setters page – that means that the “said to” in my comment @9 was unnecessary – his identity has been an open secret for quite some time and it is nice to have it confirmed…

27. Oops. That should be recombobulation.

28. I usually struggle with Imogen so I was surprised when having methodically gone through the clues three times I was done. And that despite not getting every last detail of the word play in some cases and a word I’d never heard of. All rather strange!

29. A much easier canter..unlike 21. Thanks for the explanation of 4…I had thought it weak, now I realise it’s me!

30. I found this fairly easy, though I didn’t get the rugby reference in 4d and so was puzzled by that part of the clue. I smiled when I spotted DISCOMBOBULATED. Other favourites here included LETS BE, ANNELID and ALL FOR ONE.

    Thanks, Imogen and Gaufrid.

    [OT – does anyone know why this setter chose Imogen as his pseudonym?]

31. Very enjoyable and quite a quick solve. I saw the two long anagrams and THOUGHT FOR THE DAY without having to work anything out. Indeed most of the answers jumped out at me even TWENTY TWO which I admit I couldn’t parse. ANNELID was LOI and I thought this a lovely clue. Nice to see the music of my generation getting a mention-FATS domino in STAFFORD.
    Thanks Imogen.

32. I enjoyed this very much. Most of the tricky little points I found along the way have been covered already.

    In 3D (ANNELID) I thought at first the clue was at fault, but in the phrase ‘two metres need replacing with nitrogen’ the word ‘need’ (not ‘needs’) indicates that two Ms need replacing, i.e. two replacements need to be made. I don’t think N2 has anything to do with it, however scientific or romantic that idea is.

    I didn’t parse 18D (DERWENT), 15D (ALL FOR ONE) or 4D (TWENTY-TWO), and even with more time I don’t think I would ever have sussed the last of these, but all three were solvable with just a few crossers.

    There were a few clunky clues and strange surfaces, but this was a good puzzle overall that was challenging enough to make it interesting.

33. Alan Browne @32, agreed about the nitrogen, but thought phitonelly’s idea @22 would keep muffin @1 happy.

34. Thanks to Imogen and Gaufrid. I could not parse LETS BE (the phrase in question is new to me) or TWENTY-TWO (I too was thinking of blackjack) but, after a slow start, I did get through fairly quickly. Very enjoyable.

35. Cookie @33
    Well said – and I enjoyed the comments you and phitonelly made earlier. I hope muffin is happy anyway, whatever is said in this mini-debate.

36. Thanks Gaufrid and Imogen.

    A kindler and gentler Imogen no doubt, if I was able to complete the puzzle in one sitting.

    For parsing for TWENTY-TWO, LETS BE, STAFFORD, and ALL FOR ONE, I have to come here.

    ANNELID was my LOI, new word for me, but gettable. My 2 cents on the debate: that 2 Ms are to be replaced is clear, but one N alone cannot do the job, so I entered 2Ns and looked up the word.

37. kinder 🙁

38. Hi all – just back in. My point about ANNELID isn’t that it doesn’t say that the two Ms need replacing, it’s that the clue implies that they are replaced one N (not N2 either!).

    “each metre needs replacing with nitrogen” would get round the problem, and also have a very slightly less silly surface.

39. This went quickly, although in two clues, some of the parsing eluded me for my failure to be British: for TWENTY-TWO, I know jack-diddly about rugby, and for LETS BE: “Let’s be having you” means nothing to me. (Someone explain.)

    Also, I don’t know a meaning of “die” in which it can mean “long.” “Long for something” and “die for something” don’t seem to me to be quite the same thing. Is that the intended equivalence?

    Note, by the way, that Wells Fargo still exists–it’s a major bank now; it long since stopped being an express service, so the clue is accurate. (Of course, you probably knew that, since Wells Fargo is big enough that it’d be hard to imagine them not having a presence in Britain.)

40. Oh, and also: I object to the notion that “fall” for “autumn” is a strictly American usage. Gerard Manley Hopkins was British, no? And as other said, you all already know that one in any case.

    Also, I feel like it shouldn’t be necessary to mark American usages anyway. As solvers, we’re expected to know the language–all of it. If they’ve decided that obscure plants are fair game (often with clues as vague as “plant”), surely Americanisms are no sweat, and require no further indication. American spellings, on the other hand, should be indicated.

41. mrpenney @39

    I remember the phrase from ’60s police dramas where the copper catching a petty criminal in the act would say “let’s be having you”. However, as the Urban Dictionary explains, it can also be “a phrase that one uses to call out or pump up a large group of people. Made infamous by Delia Smith”.

    Delia Smith is the well-known cookery writer and broadcaster who is also a director of Norwich City Football Club. Back in 2005, at half-time during a match, she cried out to the supporters over the PA system “This is a message for possibly the best supporters in the world. We need a 12th man here. Where are you? Where are you? Let’s be having you! Come on!”.

    I’m thirsty / I’m longing for a drink / I’m dying for a drink, I think are synonymous. Chambers supports this as one of the definitions under ‘die’ is “to languish, suffer, long, or be very eager (for), esp in be dying for (informal)”.

42. muffin @38
    You say, of the clue at 3D, that “it doesn’t say that the two Ms need replacing”. Actually it does. It says “two metres need replacing”. You also say “the clue implies that they are replaced [with] one N”. It doesn’t. It says that the two Ms “need replacing with nitrogen”, without saying how many.
    I think your interpretation is ok, but it doesn’t give the intended answer. I’m sure that my interpretation is valid (giving the intended answer), and the clue is sound. [It was one of those I described as clunky.]
    I hope you are happy with that.

43. Thanks to Imogen for the crossword and to Gaufrid for the explanation. As a relative beginner I was delighted to solve this, with occasional help from a dictionary. I particularly enjoyed DISCOMBOBULATED STAFFORD and WELLS FARGO. And as I recently moved house and now live close to Leicester, just like someone who once saw a band play the De Montfort Hall twenty years ago, I’d like to jump on the bandwagon and claim some of the credit for Leicester winning the premier league 🙂

44. In the good old days, the vocabulary of British bobbies largely consisted of “Hello hello hello”, “Evening all”, “Move along now” and “Let’s be having you”. Hence the ancient joke about the police station in Letsby Avenue.

45. Alan @42
    I obviously put too many negatives in my post @38! – I do agree that it says that the two Ms need replacing. However “two metres need repalcing with nitrogen” means to me MM > N (though I do see your point). The rephrasing I gave I think totally avoids this ambiguity.

46. muffin @45, the clue says “nitrogen”, it does not specify the element – when one says nitrogen, oxygen or carbon dioxide one implies the gases, i.e. N2, O2 or CO2 respectively.

47. P.S. the clue does not specify fertilizer…

48. Cookie @46
    You would never write a nitrogen molecule as NN. It’s either written as N2 or N? N (there should have been a triple bond in there, but it didn’t seem to paste – i.e. N=N with an extra line).

49. Muffin, yes I know, one of the strongest chemical bonds…

50. Very pleasant solve, thought SKIN DEEP was brilliant and quite liked STAFFORD even though I’m not usually a fan of celebrity first name / surname substitutions – guess you have to pick the right celebrities. Was not at all bothered by metres being exchanged with nitrogen and knew the annelids, which is more than I can say for the rugby.

    Many thanks Imogen and Gaufrid

51. I’m sorry for going on about this, but I really don’t think 3d works. If you want to repalce both Ms with Ns, then it would need “nitrogenS” (which makes the surface even sillier, of course).

    I think my redraft works better:

    “each metre needs replacing with nitrogen”

52. muffin @51

    I understand exactly where you are coming from, but I still think the clue is ok and open to both interpretations (from which of course we select the one that makes a word and fits the grid).

    Your redraft needs no comment – it works. (The surface might need a bit of extra work, but that’s not the point.)

    The clue says, in effect,
    “Two Ms need replacing with N.”
    It might just as well say
    “All Ms need replacing with N.”
    because the grammar and logic are the same.
    Both of these have the same effect. You replace M every time you see one. What do you replace it with? N every time.

    Replacing ‘all Ms’ with just one N is an alternative interpretation, but we are obliged to choose the one that gives us the only solution.

53. Alan @52
    I respect your argument – I think we must agree to differ.

54. Ok, muffin.
    I know you as a regular – as am I, although some days I miss out when I don’t have time. I think we are lucky with the quality of the crosswords we get (for free, if we choose!) and with such a good forum as this.

55. Critical thinking is required there. Is it indeed ambiguous, or is there a clear instruction?

    Not being a great analyst, I’ll stick my neck out and say that the instruction means, unambiguously, that MM should be replaced by N.

56. A little detective work with Google Maps will confirm that there is indeed a building approximating to a police station in Letsby Avenue, Sheffield. Both the road and said establishment seem modern so I think perhaps someone in South Yorkshire Police had a sense of humour when it came to naming the road.

57. How about “each metre requires nitrogen replacement”?

58. Muffin @57

    How about “The original clue was perfect as it was?” 😉

59. From a Radio Times crossword of November 1964 by D F Manley: Novelist has long way to travel for TV series (5,5). Happy days!

60. I know this has long gone to bed – I’m catching up on my backlog – but could someone explain the RU reference in 4d? I only got the answer from the crosses and still don’t see it.

    I also agree with muffin about the substitutions in 3d, and none of the arguments have convinced me otherwise. I got the answer but was annoyed on realising it needed two Ns.

61. ValM
    “… but could someone explain the RU reference in 4d?”

    See here.

62. So good to know that I wasn’t the only one who thought that 5A was THE TIMES even though I knew it couldn’t be right.
    Thought 8D was an anagram of MEDIC and STRUGGLING as I thought the anagram indicator was CONFUSED. Thought 15D was ONE FOR ALL.

63. Thanks Imogen and Gaufrid

    Did this one last week and was disappointed to see that I’d made an error with a careless LETS BY at 19a. Had never heard of the phrase ‘let’s be having you’ – so that was not going to have helped the cause.

    DISCOMBOBULATED was my second one in – I worked with another consultant on a short gig 5-6 years ago and it was clearly one of his favourite words. It certainly stuck – showed it to my daughter on the train into work and now she is a fan of it as well !!!

    Had no problem at all with the N’s for M’s in 3d. Had no idea of the rugby term at 4d – originally thought the first youthful age without a 1 was 22 (but then remembered 20)! Also did not see [UN]DERWENT at 18d.

    Favourite clue by a long way was ALL FOR ONE.

    Finished all over the place with the unparsed DERWENT, the seemingly controversial ANNELID and GILL as the last few in.

64. Thanks, Gaufrid! Seems very obscure without any reference in the clue to RU, or even a game, but that’s obviously just me.

65. Only now catching up. Am posting in case Imogen sees comments automatically (and hoping, with some certainty, that the dear muffin won’t!). I often feel obliged to comment when a setter is wrongly maligned – this almost landed me in trouble once when defending a setter from a tirade of moans set off by a ‘beloved’ blogger whose inability to parse a couple of great clues led her to deem the puzzle weak and so set the tone for commenters (she even demanded an apology from me via Gaufrid; luckily, his normal cool wisdom got the better of him and he decided no apology was necessary.) This all by the by, of course. “muffin” often misses the point, but then fifteensquared is all the richer for entertaining various levels of ability. But he doesn’t care to back down when he’s wrong, I’m afraid! The ANNELID clue was perfectly fine in my opinion. A super puzzle, if rather easy by your standards. One of my favourite setters. [I recall commenting on an earlier one – “Gem! No.1 compilation (6)”]. Thanks both.

66. Thanks Imogen and Gaufrid.

    I needed your help to explain LETS BE and DERWENT – both so obvious when you know how.

    I’m another that got caught for a while with HOLD IN at 13 – till I twigged TWENTY-TWO!

    I thought like Muffin for 3dn but now to those more experienced at this than I.

    I always recall “Lesbee Avenue” as one of Tommy Cooper’s favourite puns – I’m sure I recall him using it more than once when reading a spoof letter as part of his act. In any case, I thought the phrase came from the army when troops were being called on parade.

    That’s the joy of these puzzles. We’re so lucky to have such a rich and varied language.

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