A Tough Tuesday teaser from Boatman
This puzzle is one of those that is much easier to solve than to parse.
Having completed the puzzle, I realised when writing this blog that I don’t know how to parse 2dn or 15dn, and it took me an inordinately long time to see the parsing of 9ac.
If anyone can give me a pointer towards the NO ICE bit of 2dn or what I’m missing in 15dn, I’d be very grateful. I’m also not convinced by my parsing of 5dn. (Thanks to early comments, I can now see what I was missing)
Being an atheist with no interest in organized religiion may not have helped, given the theme, but overall this was a clever puzzle, which some solvers may find challenging, while others may think that Boatman has stretched the “rules” a little.
The only clue, other than the unparsed blighters, with which I have an objection is the misuse of Spooner in 19ac, as it’s my understanding that a genuine spoonerism requires the exchange of two sounds rather than taking a letter from one word and adding it elsewhere, but of course, as in many things, I may be wrong!
Thanks Boatman.
| Across | ||
| 7 | INCUMBENT | Money received in report by corrupt priest? (9) |
| Homophone of INCOME (“money received”) by BENT (“corrupt”) | ||
| 8 | FRIAR | Religious instruction accepted by distant monk (5) |
| R.I. (“religious instruction”) accepted by FAR (“distant”) | ||
| 9 | HEINOUSLY | Boatman saved from abuse in holy order, shockingly (9) |
| *(use in holy), where “use” is “abuse” without AB (able-bodied sailor, so “boatman”) | ||
| 10, 26 | PARTY PERSON | Minister, right sort at heart, one who accepts the whip? (5,6) |
| PARSON (“minister”) with R (ight) + TYPE (“sort”) at heart. | ||
| 12 | STRIPE | Corrupt priest often seen with Candy (6) |
| *(priest) | ||
| 13 | GLEANERS | They follow the harvest, less abundant in source of comic operas (8) |
| LEANER (“less abundant”) in G & S (Gilbert & Sullivan, thus “source of comic operas”) | ||
| 16 | ATHEIST | One doubts God is involved in robbery (7) |
| If you’re AT a HEIST, you may be “involved in (a) robbery” | ||
| 19 | ANIMATE | Revive cannibal’s victim, as Spooner might ’ave said (7) |
| The setter is implying that Spooner may have said “ANIMATE” instead of MAN ‘E ATE”, but I don’t think that’s a spoonerism as there is no swap of initial letters involved. | ||
| 22 | ESTIMATE | Revealed by priest: I’m a tease of dubious value (8) |
| Hidden in (revealed by) “priEST I’M A TEase” | ||
| 25 | CANAPE | Reject primate — that’s just for starters (6) |
| CAN (“reject”) + APE (“primate”) | ||
| 27, 29 | UNDERNEATH | Broken-hearted nun at bottom (10) |
| *(hearted nun) | ||
| 28 | AT LEISURE | Free to neutralise leader fleeing in disgrace (2,7) |
| *(eutralise) – ie “neutralise” with its leader having fled | ||
| 29 | See 27 | |
| 30 | URSA MINOR | Neighbour to plough for us around mid-afternoon or after morning in (4,5) |
| US around (afte)R(noon) + OR after A.M. (“morning”) IN, so U(R)S-A.M.-IN-OR | ||
| Down | ||
| 1 | INSECT | Bug home to cover religious order (6) |
| IN (“home”) + SECT (“religious order”) | ||
| 2 | CUT NO ICE | Have no effect on unions rising in case of emergency (3,2,3) |
| <=NO T.U.C. (Trade Unions Congress, so “no unions”, rising) + I.C.E. (“in case of emergency”) | ||
| 3 | OBTUSE | Slow boat unloaded in river (6) |
| B(oa)T in OUSE (“river”) | ||
| 4 | UNCLOGS | Clears leader of Unionville, NC to cut trees all over the south (7) |
| U(nionville) + NC + LOGS (“cut trees”) | ||
| 5 | ORDAIN | Make a priest or old monk take one in (6) |
| OR + DA(I)N (“old monk” taking “one” in)
I’m not sure about Dan – my biblical knowledge lets me down here – but Boatman may be referring to Daniel (as in the book of Daniel, but I thought he was a priest rather than a monk). Edit – Chambers has “dan” as an old word for a cleric) |
||
| 6 | PASTOR | Father John, perhaps an alternative minister (6) |
| PA (“father”) + St. (saint, so “John, perhaps”) + OR (“an alternative”) | ||
| 11 | DEAN | Cleric rejecting company of cleric (4) |
| DEA(co)N – “cleric” rejecting (co)mpany | ||
| 14 | ERA | Regularly in retreat? It’s common now (3) |
| Regular letters of (r)E(t)R(e)A(t) | ||
| 15 | SUE | Take action against head of abbey as prior goes missing (3) |
| SU(p)E(rior) (“head of abbey” with the letters of “prior” gone missing) | ||
| 16 | AGE | Mature household, female only? (3) |
| (men)AGE – “household” with no men (ie female only) | ||
| 17 | HOT | Nude photo taken (3) |
| (p)HOT(o) – think “hot” as is “stolen” or “taken” | ||
| 18 | SLAY | Cunning head of abbey concealed butcher (4) |
| SLY (“cunning”) with A(bbey) concealed | ||
| 20 | MONASTIC | Minister starting heretical actions in cloisters (8) |
| M(inister) + *(actions) | ||
| 21 | RECTORY | Play sports here, on the right parson’s place (7) |
| REC(reation ground), where one may play “play sports” + TORY (“on the right”) | ||
| 23 | SINGER | Reprobate changing second name to George (Boy George?) (6) |
| SINNER (“reprobate”) changing its second N (“name”) to a G (“George”) | ||
| 24 | IDENTS | Call signs cause damage within Daesh (6) |
| DENT (“cause damage”) within I.S. (“Daesh”) | ||
| 25 | COEVAL | Wash up under care of one of same 14 or 16 (6) |
| <=LAVE (“wash”, up) under C/O (“care of”) | ||
| 26 | See 10 | |
*anagram
2dn no tuc rising & I. C. E. In Case of Emergency
15d SUPERIOR with letters of PRIOR removed.
DAN is “a title of honour .. formerly applied esp to monks” (Chambers)
I agree that the “spoonerism” is dreadful, mainly because the I has a different sound in the two versions. And why the dropped H in “‘ave”? Also, PARTY PERSON doesn’t seem to be an established phrase for a politician, except perhaps as a gender-neutral version of “party man”, which is in Chambers.
And both work, but I thought 16d was MENAGE less MEN, not MANAGE less MAN.
Oh, I see, it’s supposed to be “man [h]e ate”, not “man I ate”. Slightly better, but still inaccurate.
Thanks to the early commenters. I will update the blog when I’m next at a PC.
Thanks Boatman, Loonapick
Quite pleased to have got through it. Some I really liked (URSA MINOR for one), some not so much.
For ANIMATE, I think it must be a Spoonerism of MAN ‘E ATE. This accounts for the ‘ave, is slightly closer to the sounds of animate, and doesn’t require the Rev to be a cannibal himself. Agree with Louise about Menage. CUT NO ICE is as Toadfather@1 says, except for the typo: ON TUC rising + ICE, with the def being ‘have no effect’
Thank you Loonapick for your honest comments – I agree with so much of what you say especially with regards to stretching the rules and the so called spoonerism.
Having said that I do like themed puzzles and admire the way so many themed words are managed in both the clues and the answers. So thanks to Boatman as well.
Easy to solve, tough to parse.
In a survey about religious knowledge a while ago atheists and Jews came out top. (Make of that what you will.)
Not convinced about Dan yet.
Thanks to Boatman, loonapick and other contributors.
I think at 4d, to incorporate “south” then LOG needs to be treated as a verb (“to cut trees”).
Nice mix of easy and difficult clues from Boatman, I thought. But I really needed loonapick’s blog today!
I thought this was excellent. Boatman on top form. My favourite was my last in, URSA MINOR.
I thought ANIMATE was a brilliant and funny spoonerism of “man ‘e ate”. All this talk about “rules” for spoonerisms seems to me nitpicking to the highest degree.
My one disappointment was that there was only one “Boatman” in the clues! Normally there are two, with two different meanings: I/me and an actual boatman.
Good fun but like others I couldn’t parse a couple. Loved HEINOUSLY, INCUMBENT, URSA MINOR and OBTUSE. Many thanks to Boatman and loonapick.
Thanks Boatman and loonapick.
There is always a discussion about Spoonerisms. One example often given is ‘a well-boiled icicle’ for ‘a well-oiled bicycle’ where there is only letter change. However, most dictionaries say that Spoonerisms are formed from two words …
I particularly liked OBTUSE, and thanks to Louise @2 for the parsing of (Lo)U(i)SE*!
Thank you Boatman and loonapick.
A most enjoyable puzzle – the solving was easy, but the parsing another matter, I failed to fully parse CUT NO ICE and questioned DAN, but thought it must be as Dom is in France, apparently they are both a corruption of the latin dominus, here is an example from The Merchant’s Tale by Chaucer “The cursed monk Don Constantine”.
An excellent example of group solving! Thanks to Toadfather, Louise, Andrew, James and Trismegistus – you got there as a team – and to Loonapick for bravely being the first to put head above parapet.
Robi – I started to make some notes about Spoonerisms, and you’ve beaten me to it with one of the examples I was going to quote.
Spoonerisms do seem to get a lot of people agitated, and I suspect it’s partly because they’re inherently childish, and we don’t like to think that we’ve been fooled by a child’s trick. I stick to the principle that a Spoonerism is a transposition of initial consonant sounds in a word or phrase, but we all go more or less further in adding “rules” as to what makes a Spoonerism satisfying and therefore, in our opinion, valid:
1. Almost everyone agrees that the stress pattern of the Spoonerism should be the same as the original – “tasted two worms” for “wasted two terms”, for example, is perfect. I once got away with “goes ‘neigh'” for “nosegay”, but I wasn’t 100% happy with it, as the stress is on “neigh”, not “goes”;
2. I think that most (but not all) would also agree that the whole of a consonant cluster should be transposed – so “bring stag” for “string bag” isn’t quite good enough. To me, that sounds like a valid Spoonerism, but used as part of a clue there’s a danger that it could lead to ambiguities, so I try to respect this rule as well; and
3. A lot of people say that you can’t have a Spoonerism where one part starts with a vowel, but there plenty of classic examples where you deal with this by transposing just the one consonant, and Robi@14 has quoted one of the earliest. I definitely accept this type of Spoonerism, but if you don’t then “man ‘e ate” for “animate” will feel wrong.
Curiously, the Oxford Dictionary defines a Spoonerism as a transposition of sounds OR letters, but I don’t think that’s right. For our purposes, a Spoonerism is all about the sounds of the words, so it has the flavour of a homophone clue.
Of course, as with all homophone clues, a Spoonerism will only work for you if you agree with the pronunciation – for “man ‘e ate” to work, you have to pronounce “ate” to rhyme with “gate”, which I do some of the time. If you consistently pronounce it to ryhme with “bet” and failed to solve the clue as a result, then I accept that you have grounds to feel hard done by.
Finished this with only DAN for old Monk unknown. In your blog for 10,26, there is a typo. It is just R for ‘right’ not RT.
[By the way, 19a reminds me of a verse from a Round the Horne sketch. It was in a movie spoof set in Ancient Rome, with Kenneth Horne playing a gladiator (cue jokes such as “I’ve whetted my sword”… “Well fear takes some men that way”). Nero, played by Kenneth Williams, recites his latest composition, which goes something like this (I’m quoting from memory):
There was a maid from Padua
Who met an alligator
She gave a sob inside his gob
And he was glad ‘e ate ‘er.]
I didn’t like the theme, but as regards clueing my only objection is that a religious order is not a sect (1d).
Like some others I needed help on parsing 2, 15 and 16d.
Not completely sure about 30. The Plough is part of Ursa Major, which is not really a neighbour of Ursa Minor (Draco gets in the way). I know that neighbour does not have to mean “next door neighbour” but my feeling is that, in the context of constellations, it should. Perhaps contrarily, I think I would have been happy if it had been “close neighbour”.
JimS – Indeed. I’ve had that one at the back of my mind for some time, though I’ve never had a good enough excuse to work it into a puzzle. I suspect I wouldn’t be the first, though – if BeeryHiker is listening, perhaps he can say how often it’s been done …
And thank you for your kind comments earlier @12. Sometimes there’s a second Boatmen, sometimes there isn’t – references to types of boatman come to mind fairly reliably when I’m setting, but I never know for sure whether I’m going to be able to use one of them. It seems healthy to keep a little unpredictability in the process that way.
By the way, [ad alert] if you’ve been wondering whether to join my Autumn Masterclass on 4 November, you may like to know that I have a couple of places left. If you want to grab one of them, this would be a good time, before I put out a last call a couple of weeks from now – more details in the Announcements section.
Is anyone else solving on iPad and finding that the multi-answer clues just have the clue “Grouped Clues Format”? For example for me today, the clue for 27a says “Grouped Clues Format” rather than the actual clue (the clue for 29a just says “See 27″…)
Matt, @23; I have raised this with the helpdesk and they say they are working on it.
@24 Thanks, Bracoman! In the meantime I’ll try to remember to put the bit of paper in my bag in the morning so I don’t have to resort to the iPad like I did today 🙂
Thanks to Boatman for an engaging puzzle and to loonapick (and others) for several parsings. (On this, the clarification offered by James@8 for CUT NO ICE hasn’t yet been incorporated into the blog).
Favourite was COEVAL, a word I have seen but not heard (like the good children of yore). Now to work it into conversation: perhaps “By the pricking of my thumbs….” when meeting a contemporary?
Perhaps not.
IDENTS was new to me and a fail. Work that into conversation anyone? And “rec” for sports area is one I never get.
Although I got ANIMATE it didn’t work for me because I pronounce the central “i” as in “pin” rather than as in, well, I can’t come up with an example where “i” is homophonic with “‘e”; again, anyone?
I wouldnt mind seeing some actual examples of the Reverend’s output.I mean its easy with malopropisms if you have a copy of “The Rivals”There was another one recently where the initial consonants were not swapped. It may have been a Saturday prize . Trying to remember what it was-probably Pasquale.I may raised an eyebrow but not many did.
The Kenneth Williams quote above reminds me:
Radi was a circus lion
Radi was a woman-hater
Radi had a lady tamer
Radiator!
copmus @27
Pasquale’s lentil? (sounds like a novel). Whether from being faulty, or merely duff, it wasn’t a popular clue.
Well, yes, Cop @27 – your analogy with malapropisms is a good one. According to Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoonerism] most of the Rev’s claimed oeuvre was made up by his students after one particularly public utterance, “The Kinquering Congs Their Titles Take” – which doesn’t even follow the Swap the Consonants rule! If that’s true, then we really do have to decide what a Spoonerism is on the basis of the way it’s been used since.
Douglas Hofstadter, by the way, decided to invent the terms “kniferism” and “forkerism” for non-initial transpositions – “Kinquering Congs” would be a kniferism, I believe – though they have sadly yet to enter common usage.
This was great fun, with a handful of tough ones. Like several others above, I didn’t manage to parse 2d and 5d correctly and had to come here to get the correct explanations. Thanks to those who provided them. I enjoyed the clever wordplay in several clues, including AGE, SUE, HEINOUSLY, AT LEISURE and MONASTIC — the latter two being my co-favorites of the day. Like JimS @12, I was hoping/expecting to see more than one clue incorporating “Boatman”, but the one we had in this puzzle was a treat. Many thanks to Boatman for the puzzle (and for joining in the comments above) and to looonapick for the nice blog.
I thought this was going to be one of Boatman’s easier ones, as I started very quickly, but I got bogged down towards the end and had to resort to the check button to finish it within my self-imposed deadline. Couldn’t parse HEINOUSLY so thanks for that.
Thanks to Boatman and loonapick
Thanks Boatman.
I filled the grid except for 10/26, PARTY PERSON, though had guessed the second word. There were a few I did not parse: CUT NO ICE, SUE and AGE
I liked HOT (17d), ERA (14d), HEINOUSLY (9a), and I also quite liked URSA MINOR (Big Dipper and Little Dipper are commonly perceived as neighbours, I think) – except that on big Dave’s site we tell our rookies you can have WORDPLAY for DEFINITION but not DEFINITION for WORDPLAY, so it’s disappointing to see a professional flout that.
I think an atheist does not just “doubt God” – wouldn’t that be an agnostic?
Many thanks loonapick, and again boatman.
Thanks Boatman and loonapick.
I thought this started out very easy for a Boatman, but it certainly got tougher.
I agree with Bear of little brain @20 about Ursa Minor. I also thought the definition for atheist was more for that of an agnostic. Wiki, for what it is worth, says: “Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities”. I don’t think absence of belief constitutes “doubt” necessarily.
I agree with Dutch apparently
I wondered about the atheism definition too, though ‘I doubt God exists’ seems more likely to mean ‘I don’t believe God exists’ than ‘I’m not quite sure’.
I am interested in the distinction between atheism being ‘the absence of belief in the existence of deities’ or alternatively ‘belief in the absence of deities’.
[Whole section deleted]
I thoroughly enjoyed this puzzle. I’m another who has little truck with religion and this served as a reminder of just how big a part it has played in lives past (and present) with the number of different terms relating to “spiritual leaders” – and Boatman restricted himself the Christian branch.
I’m with JimS@12 and Boatman’s contribution explains his rationale which seems fair and consistent to me. I had lots of ?s and 3 unparsed – 9, 2 (in good company) and 16d. 7,28 and 30a and the three letter down clues were excellent – and 11d deserves a mention.
I enjoyed this so much I’m tempted to sign up for a class Boatman. Thank you for your blog loonapick.
?s were supposed to be smileys 🙁
Dutch – WORDPLAY for DEFINITION is definitely the Ximenean way of doing things, as he saw wordplay as a series of instructions that would get you FROM some fodder TO the definition, and that sense of direction was part of his view of the logical role of language in the world. I can appreciate that, but I think he was wrongly conflating definition and solution: certainly, the wordplay leads TO the solution (except in a reverse type clue, when you usually need to signpost the fact) but the definition and wordplay are, to my mind, alternative starting points and one doesn’t lead to the other. Logically, “x^2 + y^2 = R^2” means the same thing as “R^2 = x^2 + y^2” and the solution is CIRCLE, with “x^2 + y^2” being analogous to the wordplay and “R^2” loosely corresponding to the definition, whichever way you write the formula. So, I don’t worry about maintaining a sense of direction between the two parts of the clue … though, if there’s a choice, I’ll go for the Ximenean option, because I know there are still plenty of solvers who are more comfortable with that approach. On that basis, the advice on Big Dave is sound, especially as a starting point for new setters who may go on to work in a less libertarian environment.
I also think it’s a testament to the quality of the crossword that there have been no comments on the solver-unfriendly grid with barely interlocking quadrants and few
starter letters.
Do it, WhiteKing! The class is basically a whole day of this sort of thing, with added flapjack. So, if you enjoyed today’s discussion, you’ll definitely enjoy the class – sign up now! If you’re coming from outside Brighton, it’s a great place to spend the weekend, anyway.
Thanks to Boatman and loonapick. Nothing to add. I too needed help in parsing with quite a few.
Copmus @27. Some of the Reverend Spooner’s collected remarks were malapropism’s but of a special kind. One suspects Mrs Malaprop’s were the result of ignorance, the Reverend’s were of a different order. He once referred to the distance between Land’s End and John of Gaunt. On another occasion, after delivering a particularly perplexing sermon he returned to the lectern and said, ‘dearly beloved brethren, in my sermon just now, wherever I referred to St Augustine, I did of course mean St Paul.’
That was hard!
Thanks Boatman and loonapick
Well, I suppose the “Spoonerism” or otherwise was better than my parsing – I thought Boatman was inventing the familiar (H)ani for Hannibal Lector!
COEVAL – really? A word that I’d just heard of, made up with LAVE as “to wash”? Pleeease!
re 19a – the clue does ask for what Spooner might have said, not what 21st Century dictionary delvers think he ought to have said. General syllable mixing is fine by me.
Thanks both,
Not much to add to what has been said already, except the misdirection in 22d was masterly; I spent a while trying to do an anagram of ‘I’m a tease’ and laughed when I found the answer hidden in plain sight.
I was looking for more examples of ‘corrupt PRIEST’ as an anagram: ESPRIT, TRIPES, SPRITE, RIPEST as well as the STRIPE that was used. Idea for a future crossword, perhaps. Can’t think of a word which has more anagrams than this.
Often find Boatmans rather turgid but really enjoyed this despite a few failed parsings. Great to have the setter joining in the fray.
This was quite a challenge, but I was kept entertained by some interesting and original clues, of which I liked HEINOUSLY, ATHEIST, URSA MINOR, CUT NO ICE and COEVAL the best.
Like Dutch, I left PARTY PERSON at the end. With that clue as well as ANIMATE I couldn’t match the answer to the definition in the time I had.
Normally I find wordplay based on sounds of words (whether homophones or Spoonerisms) rather difficult, but I was pleased that I had no difficulty with either INCUMBENT or ANIMATE today. One thing I have learned about Guardian crosswords in recent years is that if a Spoonerism is indicated I know I must look beyond Spoonerisms to other sorts of sound-play that are playfully called by that name.
Thanks to Boatman and loonapick.
I came to this late and was a little miffed to discover that Boatman was the setter as he’s not one of my favorites. This puzzle certainly didn’t change my opinion. ATHEIST is just wrong, ANIMATE is very clumsy, and PARTY PERSON is really trivial. The answer to the latter was all I could think of and I was surprised to find it was correct.
Liked CANAPE!
David @48, how about:
PARSE, PEARS, PARES, SPARE, SPEAR, REAPS, RAPES.
LARGE REGAL LAGER, ELGAR!
GLARE…
Also ARGEL,ARGLE, ERGAL and GARLE apparently but these are beyond obscure imho.
Better would be:
LARGE LAGER, ELGAR!
REGAL GLARE……
A very entertaining crossword, with some excellent clues. Thank you Boatman for your comments – I wish more setters would be brave enough to comment on the comments!
Tyngewick @ 47. So did I think along the lines of anagram for ‘I’m a tease’ and laughed at self on ‘discovering’ the hidden.
I also kept looking for Rasputin, but he never turned up. I liked the party person accepting the whip.
How about:
SEPAL, PALES, LAPSE, LEAPS, PEALS, PLEAS, SALEP, SPALE
The last two are more obscure words, I think, than coeval and lave.
An enjoyable one from Boatman – not the toughest maybe, but plenty of thought needed. Favourites are perhaps HEINOUSLY: clever wordplay – and URSA MINOR: clever definition. But then, I would hit upon that last, wearing my astronomer hat!
I have one or two slight quibbles about definitions – I may be wrong! Is FRIAR exactly synonymous with MONK? If anyone here is in Holy Orders, please elucidate! Secondly, can a RECTORY be somewhere where a Parson lives? I’d have thought the occupant has to be a rector. And to me, UNDERNEATH doesn’t quite tally with ‘at bottom’ – not even as an adverb.
Just to say, unless I’ve missed it in the previous posts. The reversal in 2d is of on rather than no.
Thanks to Boatman & loonapick
As one may know (including Boatman himself) I have a love/hate relationship with his puzzles.
Both qualifications are probably too strong as I never really hate a crossword.
That said, I always think highly of Boatman as being a setter with an almost unique style.
[I used the word ‘almost’ here to prevent Boatman once more hijacking some of my words for his website]
This crossword was a lot closer to love than it was to hate.
It was all very original and clever, and generally Boatman kept far away from the borders of Crosswordland (borders, if there are, of course!).
I took this puzzle with me at midnight and just like beery hiker, @32, I got so many clues straightaway that I thought hmm, it’s Tuesday, isn’t it ?
The last one went in at about 4pm this afternoon but don’t worry I slept and I ate and I did other things!
Boatman’s crossword are always built around one or two theme words.
Despite not being interested in any kind of religion, I thanked God that there are so many different words related to the clergy.
That’s perhaps what I liked most today: a clear theme without being too repetitive.
One can argue about whether 19ac is a Spoonerism or not (and many did) but it was all very enjoyable.
And tough (well, for me anyway)! Kinda Tuesday prize crossword.
Thank you for the blog, loonapick, much needed for a proper explanation of 2d (CUT ON ICE).
Almost ( 🙂 ) full marks to Boatman.
ps, every time CANAPE crops up in a crossword (being food), I have to think about what that word means in Dutch: sofa!
Wonder why an essentially French word can lead to two such different meanings.
Chaucer himself is given the title Dan, both by Spenser in The Faerie Queene and by Powell & Pressburger in A Canterbury Tale.
Regarding HEINOUSLY, when I first glanced at the clue, I recalled that Boatman often uses his nom-de-plume to denote someone in the seafaring way – unlike other setters who, when they put their name in a clue, generally expcet “I” or “ME”. So I had a decent hands-up on that clue.
It’s probably too late for anyone to read this, but two things: first, I really enjoyed the crossword despite meeting some of the queries and challenges noted by mnay others above.
Second, I remember reading that the good Rev Spooner’s eccentricities more frequently occurred in a physical rather than verbal form. For example, carefully dribbling red wine onto the table cloth after spilling some white wine; or, going out into the hallway to see his guests oou and carefully turning the lights from on to off. not much help in Crosswordland.
Bob – Hah! Yes – as I remember it, the story was that Spooner accidentally spilled some salt onto the tablecloth, then carefully poured red wine over the top. There was also something about him inviting everyone he met in the quad to come to a drinks party to welcome the new (from memory) reader in classics. When one person replied, “Oh, but I AM the new reader in classics”, Spooner said, “Oh, never mind … But you should come anyway!”
And well-boiled icicle is a particularly famous one that completely backs your usage. Took me a while to realise quite how clever that clue was. Thanks for a very entertaining puzzle. It also ties in nicely with another Spooner quote: “her husband came to a sad end. He was eaten by missionaries.”
Ha!Ha! Dutch was kind enough to look over a puzzle I made for Big Dave (hello, Dutch) and indeed set me straight on the “for” question. Now I’m thinking it was doing Boatman’s puzzles that gave me the idea it went either way.
On a related topic, does anyone find [wordplay] “and” [defn] “inappropriate” (to adopt a modern term of non-specific disapprobation?)
The “kniferism” mentioned was indeed the answer LENTIL in a recent Pasquale Prize puzzle, and generated much discussion of what is and is not a Sooonerism. Blog at http://www.fifteensquared.net/2017/09/30/guardian-prize-27310-by-pasquale/
I accepted there that they can be vocalic, but am with Boatman in feeling (with no authority to back me up) that they are essentially aural, not literal,so didn’t like lintel ? lentil. I liked ANIMATE, even though I didn’t get it until I’d guessed the answer from crossers.
As an atheist born and bred, my heart sank when I saw all the religious references, but I got there in the end, with a couple of biffs (SUE, AGE). Thanks Loonapick for the elucidation. On ATHEIST, isn’t the definition “One who doubts God is“? Even us atheists are prepared to admit the possibility of something beyond understanding, I think, so “doubt” works fine for me.
Btw, I’ve just checked and my hunch that I’d wrongly attributed the coinage of kniferism to Douglas Adams, not Hofstadter in a comment to the Pasquale post was right. Apologies if I misled anyone then and thanks, Boatman for mentioning the proper Douglas.
Tony@28
Yes that makes sense, the definition of ATHEIST. The devil is in the detail.
And a detail is that the “i” in ANIMATE doesn’t pass the aural test. Only just for me of course, but who says it with an “-ee-” in the middle? Everybody else perhaps.
In Mexico.
I should have said “for mi” of course – at last I’ve come up with a refutation of my own thesis.
I meant Tony@66
and thesis@26