Guardian 27,837 / Vulcan

52 comments on “Guardian 27,837 / Vulcan”

1. Enjoyable solve, favourite was 16 Down…

2. My favourites were 2d, 17d, 20a.

   I had trouble parsing 26a (I know zilch about football, could only understand the cricket part); and 23d – I had no idea for the little green man apart from outer-space aliens!

   I though that 8d was barely cryptic.

   Thanks Eileen and Vulcan.

3. Thank you Vulcan and Eileen.

   Rather fun all the uses of “one” after some solvers queries recently, I wonder if Vulcan did this on purpose?

4. A nice start to the week. I didn’t pay full attention to the clue at 12a, having five crossers in place, and entered “cosmeticist”. I soon realised the error of my ways when I got to STEIN @ 8d which, as has been mentioned already by michelle was barely cryptic.

   Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

5. So many anagrams and cryptic-ish definitions meant this was a bit monotonal I thought. CDs are hards – one man’s Mede is another man’s Persian as they say and I thought “postmortem”, “ago”, “offside”, “domino” and “cross” all worked very well, raising a smile for me. On the other hand “goalie”, “stein”, “trainee”, “table” and “bird flu” were barely cryptic at all.

   I also liked “martini”, “carbon-dated” and “somnolent” so there was a lot to enjoy here but I think heavier use of the red pen could’ve turned this into a classic.

   BTW does anyone else think there’s an error in Saturday’s prize? No spoilers, but I have an extra ‘o’ I cannot account for!

6. Thanks Vulcan and Eileen

   I enjoyed this, particularly CROSS and BORDELLO. I took far too long to see DOMINO.

7. All very straightforward and enjoyable – fine for a Monday

   Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen

8. Thank you Eileen, your intro amused me…I had written “Rufus vivit” across the top!

   Failed to twig the little green man reference but the rest went in fairly smoothly.

   Not terribly keen on GOALIE but mainly because it took so long to see.

   Nice week, all.

9. I did the same as Nitac@3, bunging in ist instead of ian after cosmetic. As our teachers used to say, Read the question son! Quick but quite fun, ta V and E. Will now print the prize and check out thezed’s query.

10. Thanks Vulcan and Eileen. 23a was my favourite.

    I thought 1a was rather offensive, implying that Paralympic athletes are abnormal. I felt so uncomfortable with it that I hesitated putting it in until I had crossers in place.

11. An enjoyable solve. My faves already covered. Took me ages to see 28a SPUR OF THE MOMENT although I had heard of the Tottenham Spurs. Perhaps UK football will always be my Achilles heel! Thanks for the extra thoughts on 4d MASKS, Eileen. I particularly liked the aforementioned “little green man” at 23d – a pleasing PDM.
    Much appreciated, Vulcan and Eileen.

12. Yes a fleeting eyebrow-raise re 1ac. One notably wins medals here?

13. P.S. I hesitated about saying what Paul the other one has said @10 about 1a PARALYMPIC GAMES. I thought I might be being hyper-sensitive, but the clue also seemed a bit inappropriate to me.

14. I deliberately didn’t comment on 1ac, apart from the question mark. The clue made me uneasy and I was wondering what others might think – I’m going out for a while now.

15. I felt uncomfortable about 1ac too.  I wonder whether something like “the average competitor will not win medals here” might be better.

16. thezed@5

    there are two answers I cannot parse in Saturday’s Prizoe, maybe one of them is the extra O that you mention. I guess I shoudo not say more than that.

    I did a bit of a double take at 1across, but “not normally able” is roughly the same as “disabled” which is what the Paralympians are – so in the end I was fine with it.  I see the clue as “One (who) is not normally able // to win medals here

17. ^^ *Prize* not prizoe

    *should* not shoudo

    *sigh*

18. Practically a write in, but some enjoyable and inventive clues nonetheless, and it is Monday.  Last one in was DOMINO because .O.I.O isn’t that promising at first.

    I am another who was a little uncomfortable about the “normally able” aspect of the PARALYMPIC GAMES clue; one expects higher standards of sensitivity in the Guardian. But I think it can just about be read in a non-offensive way, if one thinks of an Olympic winner being able in a normal sense, with a Paralympic winner being able in an exceptional sense.  Maybe.  Actually, medallists at either Games are usually well beyond normal in my view.

    I liked SOMNOLENT, CARBON DATED and POST MORTEM, and there were some pleasing anagrams like doorbell/BORDELLO and sunrise/INSURES.  My favourite was SPUR OF THE MOMENT, mainly because I am a lifelong Spurs supporter and needed a lift after we lost the Champions League Final on Saturday.  Can’t blame the GOALIE and it wasn’t OFFSIDE either.

    Just to be pedantic, @Julie in Australia, it’s Tottenham Hotspur, also known as The Spurs, never the Tottenham Spurs!

    Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

19. Reasonable start to the week although I’m not a fan of multiple cds.

    Horses for courses, but I liked GOALIE as well as CARBON-DATED.

    Thanks Rufus Vulcan and Eileen.

20. thezed @5 (& michelle @16)  I have 3 that I can’t parse from the Saturday Prize but we shouldn’t discuss here.  Is there a way to discuss it elsewhere?

21. William @20

    There’a discussion of Saturday’s puzzle here.

22. Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen. I found this largely straightforward, but the last couple domino and postmortem seemed to take longer than the rest put together. Overall an enjoyable solve and I was another fan of carbon dated. Thanks again to Vulcan and Eileen.

23. Michelle @16. Agreed 1a is fine when you read it that way and I’m sure that was Vulcan’s intention.

24. Thanks Muffin @21 – on rechecking, it was the Everyman where I had the extra letter still to sort out. Did that one on paper not online so didn’t have it immediately to hand – it is with the recyclers now!

25. A mixed bag for me. Some of the cds were really clever, POSTMORTEM in particular, but others like TRAINEE left me wondering if I was missing something. Mostly there were just too many of them. Some other nice clues, though, including CARBON-DATED, as others have mentioned.

    I (partially) parsed 8d as EIN = ‘In Germany, one” but then couldn’t see where the ST came from.

    Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

26. I am another who feels uneasy about 1ac. I get how it works, but think it is a bit dodgy as a Guardian clue. Thanks V and E.

27. Agree with the comments about 1ac being dubious. But also 23d. We should not assume its a man at crossings. The figure is gender neutral. I always told children not to cross  until the green person appeared.

28. Steady write in, with FOI oar, LOI offside, COD cross. Thought 1a a bit odd at first, but after thinking about it I think it’s Ok. Thanks to setter and bloggers.

29. Very offended by 1ac. As for Paul the other one I couldn’t write it in. I work with paralympians.

30. Peter @29 – run the clue by them, see what they say. Personally, I raised an eyebrow, but then realised it’s only saying “differently-abled” in a cryptic way. I don’t get offended by proxy though, so I don’t think it’s my call to make as to whether it’s acceptable or not.

    Really enjoyed the puzzle though. A nice easy solve as intended, and some fun clues as mentioned above. Carbon-Dated was my favourite – with hindsight I think I should’ve spotted it much sooner, but that’s probably part of what makes a really good clue.

31. As some others, I found 1a highly offensive, unless perhaps I’ve misinterpreted it somehow.

32. Ah – actually on re-reading, I’m downgrading my offence to a double-eyebrow raise. I had read it as paralympians being ‘not normal’, I see it’s ‘not normally able[d]’, which is clunky rather than worse than that.

33. It is possible to read 1a in such a way as for it to be inoffensive; however it was possibly a bit risky to include it as it could also be read to give offence.

    walker @27

    But that would spoil the “little green men” or aliens joke!

34. Wow. What a can of worms 1a has opened up. I just took the surface to mean that paralympians are not “able-bodied” in the usual sense of the words, and like to think that’s what Vulcan meant too.

35. The crossword police seem to be out in force today. I’m sure you could be offended by 1ac if you really wanted to be but Important sure there are more important things to worry about. And as for ‘Little green person’—.
    Very much a Rufusy experience and none the worse for that.
    Thanks Vulcan.

36. Not sure where the first ‘important’ came from. It should be I’m.
    Sorry!

37. It’s refreshing to be able to complete a Guardian cryptic once in a while! Thank you Vulcan. My eyebrows also lifted initially at 1ac but surely it is true that paralympians are able to an extent that most of the rest of us are not.

38. I enjoyed it too. Favourite spur of the moment

39. Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

    Yes, 1A can be interpreted as offensive but no, it isn’t really. And it’s unfortunate that we use the word “man” to differentiate humans from other fauna – perhaps we should revert to something older to avoid sexual ambiguity. Now what’s the Latin for “man”, I can’t remember…. Ah yes. Ah no. Well it’ll have to remain little green man then. (And why is person not considered offensive? Why not perdaughter?)

    I liked SPUR OF THE MOMENT – pity none turned up on Saturday night 1961Blanchflower@18.

40. Thanks all.  Needed help parsing 23 CROSS.  Here in the USA the pedestrian crossing sign has a red hand for stay put and a white figure for go.

41. slipstream@40: a “white” figure eh? And what have the PC police to say about that, I wonder?

42. I’d rather kids crossed the road safely than argue about the implied gender of the symbol. Also, “little green man” is historically a phrase used to describe aliens. “Little green person” is not. Language only works if you use it as it is used. You can’t try to regulate it, it just doesn’t work. I’m not saying any of this is right – it’s just how it is, and railing against it achieves nothing.

43. Please forgive me for saying this: I find it worrying that people are making out to be offended whenever something can be construed to be politically incorrect: a bigoted reflex, to my mind. Fortunately there are several correspondents who give the setter the benefit of goodwill. In Germany we call these sensitive prigs Gutmenschen. The list of synonyms in English is quite lengthy – as it would be: one might say it started with Malvolio. – On the other hand I congratulate you Brits on the prominence you give to 1A in the media and Prince Harry’s role in Invictus.

     

44. Thanks all.

    3d may or may not be barely cryptic, but it is wrong. “Stein” is an English term for a beer mug, never used in Germany.

    On the other hand if you like your green crossing person to be a man then Berlin’s the place to go:

    https://www.ampelmann.de/en/

45. 1961Blanchflower: Do you remember the Danny Blanchflower adverts for shredded wheat?

46. On “mask”: this used to be standard hunting vocabulary: the brush was the foxe’s tail and the mask was it face.

47. And PaulW, on “Stein” as beer mug, there is such a thing as a “Steinkrug” which I have heard called a “Stein” in Munich (https://www.hofbraeuhaus-shop.de/Kruege-Glaeser/Steinkrug/).

     

48. Coming to this late, as usual, I was struck by Eileen’s reference to the school song. Leicestershire County Cricket Club have always been known as ‘the Foxes’, with a running fox as their emblem. I’ve always assumed that this was simply because it’s well known as a hunting county, so I was intrigued by the idea that it might also reflect the fact that the shape of the county on the map resembles a fox’s face. (Wouldn’t have worked for the period when Leicestershire incorporated Rutland!).

    As others have said, this was a straightforward solve which could have been a Rufus tribute act.

    Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

49. Georg @43:  please forgive me for saying this, but I think it is unfair to say that people troubled by 1a are “making out” to be offended and suffering from a “bigoted reflex”.  I hope that that this debate does not descent into an exchange of epithets like “prig”,  and “Gutmenschen” or whatever might be offered from the other side of the aisle.  You do not sound like an insensitive person and I am guessing that neither you nor any of the correspondents (including me) are actually disabled.  This might explain our discomfort in discussing a topic that we cannot understand through our own direct experience.  Given this, it just seems (to me at least) that what should be a harmless crossword clue (with an exceedingly obvious answer, incidentally) might have been more judiciously or, dare I say, ingeniously worded.

50. Georg Seifert @43 … you have forgotten that the Guardian is the home of political correctness, and the unease expressed on this page is mild compared to the controversy that an article in the newspaper would have sparked if it had suggested that there is a distinction between “normal people” and “people with disabilities”. It is not incompatible with giving the setter the benefit of goodwill to be disturbed that someone (particularly someone contributing to the Guardian) would not notice the possible implications of what they had written. We frail snowflakes will be dismayed by any intimation that there is a divide with normal people on one side and un-normal people on the other.

51. Speaking as someone who is most definitely disabled, so much so that I couldn’t compete in any such games, I was not in the least offended by 1ac. Made me laugh. Good clue.

52. Well said Peter!

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