Guardian Cryptic crossword No 29,951 by Pasquale

A nice puzzle – I particularly liked 10ac, 13ac, 7dn, and 8dn. Thanks to Pasquale

I think I have heard of 11ac/21ac BLUE JOHN before, but did have to look it up to fully understand the clue.

 picture of the completed grid

ACROSS
5 GALOOT
Crude guy also accompanying prisoner on return (6)
definition: a clumsy or inept person

TOO=”also” plus LAG=slang for “prisoner”; all reversed/”on return”

6 MUTANT
Greek character with blemish, not one monstrous type? (6)
MU=Greek letter/character; plus TA-[I]-NT=”blemish” minus I=”one”
9 SNITCH
Steal money going round in school (6)
[edit to add, thank you to Crispy and other commenters who pointed out this was missing]
definition: SNITCH = pilfer = “Steal”
TIN=slang for “money” reversed/”going round” in SCH (short for “school”)
10 TOULOUSE
‘Ladies and Gentlemen’ perhaps heard in French city (8)
sounds like (“heard”): ‘two loos’ (two toilets, one for Ladies and one for Gentlemen, perhaps)
11, 21 BLUE JOHN
Sad saint may be found in Derbyshire cave (4,4)
definition: a rare mineral that can be found in the Blue John Cavern in Derbyshire [wiki]

BLUE=”Sad” + [saint] JOHN

12 DELECTABLE
Delicious cold food served after sign to remove something (10)
C [cold] + TABLE=”food”; after DELE=a proofreader’s instruction to delete/remove something
13 SYMPATHETIC
I tap my chest, animatedly commiserating (11)
anagram/”animatedly’ of (I tap my chest)*
18 VINTAGE CAR
Minister transporting a gent around in old vehicle (7,3)
VICAR=”Minister” around anagram/”around” of (a gent)*
21 BLUE JOHN
See 11
22 MARCUS AURELIUS
See 23
23, 22 MARCUS AURELIUS
What disturbs us – a mercurial US ‘emperor’ (6,8)
definition: a Roman emperor

anagram/”disturbs” of (us a mercurial US)*

24 DEFUSE
Brill employment brings ease (6)
definition: to defuse as in to reduce the tension in a situation

DEF=slang for ‘excellent’=”Brill”; plus USE=”employment”

25 GANESH
He sang about an Indian god (6)
anagram/”about” of (He sang)*
DOWN
1 FLUTTERY
Like something flapping – say, insect going round (8)
UTTER=”say”, with FLY=”insect” going round
2 NOSHED
Disciple upset before he had had some loaves and fishes? (6)
for definition, to nosh = to eat

SON=”Disciple”, reversed/”upset”; plus HED=he’d=”he had”

3 FURUNCLE
Sore member of the family hiding under something warm (8)
definition: a type of boil or sore on one’s skin

UNCLE=”member of the family” after/under FUR=”something warm”

4 TACOMA
Jazz fan turned up with old mum in American city (6)
CAT=”Jazz fan” reversed (turned up); plus O (old) + MA=”mum”
5 GENTLE
Intelligent leader – kind inside (6)
hidden inside [Intelli]-GENT LE-[ader]
7 TUSSLE
Union less troubled or fighting? (6)
TU (Trade Union) + anagram/”troubled” of (less)*
8 ATHLETICISM
Requirement to do well in heat? This climate is awful (11)
definition refers to a ‘heat’ or preliminary round in an athletics competition

anagram/”awful” of (This climate)*

14 PIGGIEST
I spit egg out, being most disgusting at the meal? (8)
anagram/”out” of (I spit egg)*
15 INJURIES
Damages home fitting panels below (8)
definition has “Damages” as a noun

IN=[at] “home” + JURIES=”panels”

16 PIQUED
Got to the top – said to be so offended (6)
sounds like (said to be): ‘peaked’=”Got to the top”
17 CHOUGH
Top of country house that’s horrible for bird (6)
definition: a type of bird in the crow family

top letter of C-[ountry] + HO (house) + UGH=exclamation of disgust=”that’s horrible”

19 TEEOFF
Be a swinger at the club, stripped to the waist? (3,3)
definition: to tee off is to make a swing while at the golf club

to have one’s TEE or T-shirt taken OFF = “stripped to the waist”

20 RAMEAU
Musician and artist married overlooking water abroad (6)
definition: a French composer

RA (Royal Academician, “artist”) + M (married) + EAU=”water” in French i.e. “abroad”

77 comments on “Guardian Cryptic crossword No 29,951 by Pasquale”

  1. Tomsdad

    Agree with manehi – a nice puzzle. FURUNCLE was new to me, but other than that all familiar, GANESH from my granddaughter’s cuddly toy, Used to live just over the Pennines from the BLUE JOHN mines, so almost a write-in. Liked 23,22 for obvious reasons and the definition of 8d as well. Thanks to Pasquale and manehi

  2. AP

    I enjoyed making fluttery progress through this one. It felt very anagram-heavy at the start but it turned out to be mere coincidence that I exhausted the whole supply early on; I work by grid design and enumeration rather than going in clue order.

    Being a Pasquale, there were a few where I had to cross fingers and hope: GALOOT, BLUE JOHN, TACOMA and RAMEAU. Alas I couldn’t come up with the FUR for FURUNCLE.

    I loved the incongruence of the playful word NOSHED in the biblical context of the surface, and enjoyed ATHLETICISM and TEE OFF because I was on to them early (though wouldn’t it be a swinger of the club at the ball?). I was also pleased to remember DEF[USE] from an earlier puzzle.

    A special mention for PIQUED for the misleading positioning of the soundalike indicator; and similarly for GENTLE for a less typical example that refutes the misconception that the definition must necessarily be found at the beginning or end of the clue.

    Thanks both

  3. Crispy

    Hi Manehi. You haven’t actually parsed SNITCH – you’ve just written the clue.

  4. michelle

    Gave up, could not finish – I failed to solved 9ac, 24ac as well as 1, 2, 19 down.

    New for me: FURUNCLE; the Blue John Cavern in Derbyshire; Rameau, Jean-Philippe (for 20d); GALOOT; DELE = delete (12ac)

    Favourites: ATHLETICISM, VINTAGE CAR.

    9ac I would parse as reverse of TIN =money in SCH=school. Def = steal.

  5. Staticman1

    Great fun but as usual with Pasquale I had to have my fingers crossed for GALOOT, FURUNCLE and SNITCH (in that context). Not hear of BLUE JOHN either but very fairly clued once the J was checked.

    Not helped by putting in MARCUS TIBERIUS (whoever he may be) from the checking letters. Had to actually do the anagram to correct it and get to the last one in PIQUED.

    Liked TEE OFF and VINTAGE CAR

    THANKS Pasquale and Manehi

  6. Amma

    Enjoyable (and hopefully uncontroversial) cryptic. I didn’t know GALOOT or FURUNCLE – both great words – and revealed a couple of answers. I was annoyed with myself for failing to get PIQUED as it’s a perfectly good clue and I like soundalikes.

  7. KVa

    Thanks Pasquale and manehi.

    BLUE JOHN (a minuscule point)
    Took ‘saint, maybe’ as JOHN and ‘found in…cave’ as the def.

  8. PhilB

    Agree with Amma @6. Had to go with a clue solver to get FURUNCLE . Also didn’t know def is brill. Showing my age I suspect.
    Apart from the words I didn’t know, it went in easily. I took too long to see GENTLE.

  9. KateE

    Some good giggles along the way, but too many unknowns.

  10. gladys

    I remembered GALOOT from corny cowboy stories, but nho a FURUNCLE (guessed the relative from analogy with CARBUNCLE, but ended up using a wordfinder for the FUR bit), and I’m not sufficiently down with the kids for def=brill. Son=disciple was unfamiliar, and I was surprised to find that PIGGIEST is an actual word.

    But an appreciative OUCH for TOULOUSE, and I liked the topical surface of MARCUS AURELIUS. Thanks Pasquale and manehi.

  11. Protase

    Typically well-constructed puzzle from the Don, with trademark sprinkling of rarities and a biblical reference.

    Luckily, there was nothing here that was completely unfamiliar, though I had a long search in the mental attic for FURUNCLE and GALOOT (LOI – I’ve only come across it in Arthur Ransome novels, which I haven’t read for many decades). BLUE JOHN was a write-in if you’ve been to that part of the Peak District, but probably mystifying otherwise. The mineral, fluorite aka fluorspar, is not itself especially rare – what is unusual is the bluish-purple veining.

    Favourites: NOSHED, ATHLETICISM, MARCUS AURELIUS (we can’t get away from references to the orange one).

    Thanks to Pasquale and manehi

  12. Nigel Stephens

    Snitch is very parsable (9a) but doesn’t really mean steal. I had this as snatch?

  13. AlanC

    Worth it just for GALOOT, a word frequently used by my dad. Reasonably straightforward although the grid looked scary at first. I also liked TOULOUSE, SYMPATHETIC, MARCUS AURELIUS, VINTAGE CAR, GENTLE and PIQUED. I agree with Nigel @12, that SNATCH seems better than SNITCH, which surely means to inform on someone. I doubt that this puzzle will cause the handbags of yesterday.

    Ta Pasquale & manehi.

  14. Petert

    The other thing I liked about MARCUS AURELIUS was the contrast between the surface and the famously Stoic emperor. I couldn’t decide between PIQUED and peaked.

  15. AlanC

    … although I see that it can also mean to steal. TILT along with FURUNCLE and CHOUGH. I presume the 4 letters at the bottom are accidental.

  16. Blaise

    Here in France it’s spelt FURONCLE so thanks to the crosser with TOULOUSE that one took me ages, even though it’s something I’ve experienced. BLUE JOHN cavern too, but that’s a happy memory…

  17. Balfour

    AlanC @13 GALOOT was a frequent feature of my father’s vocabulary too, and never having heard it south of Hadrian’s Wall, I have always thought of it as Scottish, It is not surprising, therefore, that it has currency also in the lexis of Protestant Northern Ireland.

  18. Hadrian

    Nice highlighting from AP#2 of Pasquale’s little touches of misdirecting brilliance. Never heard of GALOOT but I’m going to use it from now on, I know enough candidates.. Thank you P&m

  19. Vegiemarm

    A tough puzzle with some satisfying solves, but a decidedly preferable bottom half.

  20. Martin

    I was another snatcher, I wasn’t happy with the parsing but had never heard that meaning of SNITCH. Like AP @2, I also sensed an anagram fest that didn’t quite materialise.

    I am a former resident of La Ville Rose (Toulouse, nicknamed for its pinkish construction materials). My rugby-obsessed friends down there will be pleased that England seem nailed on to lose this weekend.

    Like Gladys @10 I knew GALOOT and needed help to complete FURUNCLE.
    DEF is not a blazingly cutting-edge term. Def Jam Recordings have had a string of major artists since 1984, some of them household names. The word makes me think of Eric B and Rakim’s global smash Paid in Full from 1987 which has the words “def with the record” repeated on a sample. Did I spot it? Not so much. Solved the clue though.

    Thanks Pasquale and manehi

  21. KVa

    SNITCH
    One of the meanings given is ‘steal’ in various dictionaries.

  22. Alastair

    SNITCH is TIN, money, in SCHool.

  23. DavidC

    Long ago school trips have left me with this information – which I hope still holds good!

    BLUE JOHN: one of the earth’s rarest minerals – found only in a small part of Derbyshire.

    The stone was largely worked in France … and the name thought to be derived from the French description of its blueish / yellowish colour …’Bleu Jaune’ …

    The mine / cavern is very much worth a visit …

  24. poc

    I smiled at 10a, which reminded me of the old joke about the French artist who had added an extension to his house. Two-loos Lautrec, if you must know.

  25. Layman

    Despite comments on the Guardian site, this felt tough, but at least I managed to complete it unlike his previous one. Quite a few jorums – GALOOT, BLUE JOHN, RAMEAU, CHOUGH. My favourites were MARCUS AURELIUS, PIQUED, GENTLE, NOSHED and MUTANT. Thanks Pasquale and manehi!

  26. Martin

    To subsequent posters, yes, I understood the parsing and definition of SNITCH by the time I posted @20. Maybe you were aiming to resolve the gap in the blog rather than replying to me.

  27. DavidC

    POC@24:

    Two loos, no trek.

    when our French teacher told it!

  28. Alphalpha

    Thanks both and a dnf. I had to reveal PIQUED, which was annoying, but felt a glow of self-satisfaction on solving CHOUGH.

  29. Robi

    It’s Pasquale, so he must start as he means to go on with the GALOOT jorum (for me). I also tried with small writing to fit carbUNCLE into 3D with FURUNCLE being another jorum. I guess ‘two loos’ must be a chestnut but I don’t remember it and i liked it. I also liked the gent in his VINTAGE CAR, the good anagrams for MARCUS AURELIUS and ATHLETICISM (nicely misleading heat in the surface), and the home panels seen by (IN)JURIES.

    Thanks Pasquale and manehi.

  30. James

    There’s only one loo in ladies and gentlemen

  31. Nakamova

    James @30 Ladies is one loo, Gentlemen is the other. I think GALOOT crossed the pond and became more common in the U.S. (at least during the 1920s-40s). A little less pejorative though, indicating big and clumsy rather than crude.

  32. Sagittarius

    Galoot had crossed the Atlantic well before the 1920s. See the 1871 poem (famous in its day) telling the tale of Jim Bludso of the Prairie Belle, by John Hay, with the line “I’ll hold her nozzle agin the bank/Till the last galoot’s ashore”.

    https://www.theotherpages.org/poems/hay01.html#:~:text=Till%20the%20last%20galoot's%20ashore.%22,had%20faith%20in%20his%20cussedness%2C

  33. Eoink

    For fans of golden age science fiction, I’m pretty sure Doc Smith used galoot a lot in the Lensman series.
    I’d parsed 10A as a sign pointing “to loos”.

  34. Balfour

    Sagittarius @32 It s a moot point in which direction GALOOT crossed the Atlantic. In Hay’s poem it seems to be used in its original sense to mean an inexperienced sailor, therefore one implicitly clumsy and inept, leading to its wider application. The earliest uses of it in its root sense seem to be American. The means by which it arrived in the Scottish/NI idiom as exemplified in my father’s speech and that of AlanC’s father in Belfast remain a mystery.

  35. Meenachi

    Loved CARBUNCLE,SEATTLE, FIBRILLATION, VISHNU,ABRASIONS and SPORTSMANSHIP.

  36. Lord Jim

    Very enjoyable puzzle. Favourites NOSHED which was amusing and MARCUS AURELIUS for the topical surface.

    GENTLE was a nice reminder that the definition doesn’t need to be at the beginning or end of the clue. (Pasquale likes to do this.)

    Many thanks both (but remember that FLUTTERY will get you nowhere).

  37. Mig

    Mostly accessible puzzle, sprinkled with a few really tricky ones, either nho (11/21 BLUE JOHN, 3d FURUNCLE, 17d CHOUGH), couldn’t parse (10a TOULOUSE, 23d GANESH (thought it was GESH around AN??), and/or took a long time (most of the above, and 2d NOSHED, loi (“Disciple” = SON?), 20d RAMEAU (RAMZEE? RAMMER?))

    A lot of great clues, though, including 5a GALOOT (great word), 13a SYMPATHETIC (“I tap my chest” anagram), 23/22 MARCUS AURELIUS (of course), 5d GENTLE (nicely hidden), 19d TEE OFF (fun surface)

    Thanks for the fun!

  38. Ace

    Lots to like here. Favorites included 18A and 19D for the clever surface. FURNUCLE was new to me, GALOOT dredged up from somewhere, and of course I didn’t know the bird but the wordplay was fair. I’ve only seen GANESHA before, but apparently GANESH is acceptable.

    One minor quibble: BLUE JOHN is weak for me as a cryptic clue. Either one knows it, or one googles for a list of well-known Derbyshire caves and the answer jumps out and the parsing is obvious.

  39. muffin

    Thanks Pasquale and manehi
    A lot of GK, but I had most of it; FURUNCLE needed a wordsearch.
    TACOMA I knew from the infamous Tacoma Narrows Bridge.
    GALOOT is used a lot by Nancy in Swallows and Amazons. (often “mutton-headed galoot”).
    I wasn’t convinced by “disciple” = SON.
    Favourite TOULOUSE>

  40. poc

    Muffin@39: son=disciple is in Chambers

  41. Tony Santucci

    Thanks Pasquale for the customary excellence and precision in clueing. The ‘odd’ words were easy to solve which I always appreciate. Not that I ever doubt the accuracy of Pasquale but I did check Chambers for SNITCH and sure enough ‘pilfer’ was right there as a definition. My top picks were TOULOUSE, MARCUS AURELIUS, and VINTAGE CAR. Thanks manehi for the blog.

  42. Veronica

    I’m very proud of completing this, I reckon it was above my pay grade. Several answers required a check to make sure they were real words!
    A fun solve because it’s satisfying to get the answer from the clue rather than the definition.

  43. Mitz

    “It’s not fair,” complained Peggy. “Pasquale always chooses the most obscure words to fit any set of crossers. It’s as bad as having to recite poetry for the Great Aunt.”
    “Don’t be such a tame galoot,” snorted Nancy. “Barbecued billygoats, if Captain Flint or any of the Swallows heard you talk like that they’d hoist you by the nearest yardarm. But only if they got to you before me. Now pass me that tin of pemmican and a bottle of grog.”

  44. Oofyprosser

    Irritating googlefest typical of this setter.

  45. Roz

    Thanks for the blog , good set of neat clues and the rarer words had very clear wordplay . CHOUGH and VINTAGE CAR stood out for me .
    A lot of BLUE JOHN items at auctions but some are Chinese imports so be careful . Agree with Muffin@39 for TACOMA , I use this for resonance and non-linear dynamics .
    Too many sticklebrick grids in the Guardian .

  46. Roz

    IO Wednesday in the FT if anybody wants to scratch their head .

  47. Digger

    Surprised how many people haven’t heard of Galoot. It took me ages to get though because I was trying to make it be OILMAN, “crude” being used in a punning way.

    I had SNATCH instead of SNITCH too, which I happily admit was wrong. I know tanner is a coin so I thought it had a hope, but snitch fits better and I have heard the theft meaning used in real life.

  48. muffin

    poc@40
    All very well saying “it’s in Chambers” (which I suppose excuses Pasquale using it), but son and disciple simply don’t mean the same thing. Can you think of an example where they could be exchanged without completely changing the meaning?

    [btw if you haven’t yet, do follow my Tacoma Narrows Bridge link – frightening!]

  49. Roz

    The Sons of the Desert were disciples of the Exhausted Ruler .

  50. Protase

    [Apart from the infamous bridge, TACOMA would be familiar to anyone who has flown to Seattle, where the main hub is known as Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, as it’s located between the two cities]

  51. ronald

    I’ve always used SNITCH (on) to mean sneakily give the game away. And for a very brief few seconds I wondered whether a word meaning Sore ending in -uncle might be CarbUNCLE, but of course too many letters to squeeze in.
    Memories years ago of visiting Castleton and the Blue John Caves, where a Witch’s Cave was being advertised as a spooky attraction. Turned out to be a cleverly placed object casting a witch-shaped shadow in the gloom on the cave wall. I wonder if they’re still using that illusion today.
    TACOMA, GALOOT and GANESH from Pasquale’s stable of rather less known/used crossword fillers all eminently gettable from the clueing…

  52. muffin

    Roz @49
    I often find it difficult to tell whether or not you are being serious. In this case, Google tells me that you are referring to a Laurel and Hardy film. I’ve seen “followers” mentioned, but I haven’t found “disciples” yet.

  53. phitonelly

    Botched GALOOT despite having heard of it (the phrase “you big galoot” springs to mind but I can’t remember where from) and tried SUNUNCLE for the sore. In the latter, using “something warm” as wordplay for FUR seemed a little ungenerous for such an unusual word.
    MARCUS AURELIUS was excellent.
    Thanks, Pasquale and manehi.

  54. Roz

    Muffin@52 it is a bit complicated , fan-clubs of L & H are now called Sons of the Desert . In the film L & H are members of a fraternity of this name , Stan refers to the leader as the Exhausted Ruler , all the disciples have to swear an oath promising to attend their next convention which is the story of the film .

  55. Coloradan

    Thanks to manehi, and to Pasquale for reminding me of one of my favorite Spoonerisms (of Bach, taking the illegitimate PDQ into account): A twenty-one-son GALOOT.

  56. DerekTheSheep

    The NW corner held me up for a while. Pleased to see GALOOT – others have got in before me with the Swallows and Amazons usage. I read those books for the first time only after I’d taken up sailing in my 50s – a delight.
    My favourites today were MARCUS AURELIUS – a great anagram and surface – and TOULOUSE, which made me chortle.
    Related to Toulouse / two loos, there is a boat on moorings near us named “Beeblebrox”. I asked the owner if it had two ‘heads’ : “No, just one.”, he said, and looked at me as if I were slightly mad.
    Thanks Pasquale and manehi.

  57. Outnumbered

    The most astonishing thing about this puzzle is the appearance of Brill = DEF from Pasquale, usually the crustiest of setters. I usually avoid him for this reason but actually quite enjoyed this one.

  58. Lord Jim

    muffin @48, interesting question. I’ve been having a root around (I’ve obviously got nothing better to do) and have come up with a couple of examples. I don’t know if they’ll satisfy you?

    Chaucer, Parson’s Tale, referring to priests who have turned to sin: “as shows in the Book of Kings, that they were the sons of Belial — that is, the devil.”

    When the young Bob Dylan first arrived in New York, he was much influenced by Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, who had been Woody Guthrie’s sidekick in the 1950s and was very active in the Greenwich Village scene. According to Anthony Scaduto’s biography, Dylan became known in those early months as “the son of Jack Elliott and the grandson of Woody Guthrie”.

  59. Loren ipsum

    Thanks Pasquale and manehi! I got through this puzzle with surprising (relative) ease, only resorting to Google for FURUNCLE, having first found that “caruncle” exists and assuming I am was just missing how a car could be something warm. In the same corner I was trying to make TOURISTS work for a while, based on the French city of Tours, until I finally got TOULOUSE—but needed manehi’s help to parse it.

    I like Digger @ 47’s interpretation of “crude guy”!

  60. muffin

    Thanks Lord Jim @58
    Valid, but even more obscure than the Laurel and Hardy reference!
    (Famously, I think, Dylan visited Guthrie on his deathbed.)

  61. Balfour

    Lord Jim @58. No need to go to the Parson’s interminable tale for sons of Belial. See, for example, ‘Paradise Lost’ Book I:

    … when night
    Darkens the streets, then wander forth the sons
    Of Belial, flown with insolence and wine.

    In Oxford, the expression has a currency which attaches to the students of a certain college of which I – and.alas, Boris Johnson and Ghislaine Maxwell – are alumni.

  62. AP

    Further to Balfour@61, I didn’t bat an eyelid at son=disciple because in an academic context – particularly classics, mathematics and so on – son for follower/protégé (equally, disciple) is idiomatic. A son of Archimedes or Pythagoras, for example. The key is on ignoring the misleading religious reading.

  63. ValydiaRosada

    BLUE JOHN was the first clue I got. GALOOT and FURUNCLE were new to me. But a fun collaboration with himself. Thanks Brendan and Manehi.

  64. Zoot

    I’ve always associated GALOOT with Westerns. ” There was no GALOOT who could outshoot the Man from Laramie.”

  65. GeeDubya

    GALOOTs feature often in the stories of Damon Runyon – quite a stretch from Swallows and Amazons, as mentioned in several comments above!

  66. Leek Lass

    Mortified to realise I didn’t get RAMEAU. I googled ‘RAMMAR musician’ and was taken to several sites and downloadable tracks. It parsed.
    Thoroughly enjoyed the puzzle – especially TEE OFF, TOULOUSE, MARCUS AURELIUS. Thanks Pasquale and manehi.

  67. Leek Lass

    And MAR for foreign sea …

  68. Pino

    Balfour#34
    Interesting that “galoot” originally meant an inexperienced sailor. Perhaps that’s the sense in which Nancy applied it to Peggy but I’m too idle to check whether she used it in the context of her sister’s clumsiness in sailing the “Amazon”.
    I found 3d when Googling something else, as occasionally happens. I doubt whether I would have got FUR otherwise.
    Thanks to Pasquale and manehi

  69. Tamarix

    I’m another one who hadn’t heard of FURUNCLE. Should have known GALOOT from Swallows and Amazons, but it’s a very long time since I read it
    I was surprised how many commenters hadn’t heard of the CHOUGH. It’s a very striking bird of the crow family – all black with a bright red beak and legs.
    I knew of Tacoma thanks to Steve Miller’s “Keep on rocking me baby” (“Went from Phoenix Arizona all the way to Tacoma…”).

  70. Etu

    Note to self: “U” may often be preceded by “Q”.

    All good stuff, though failed to get PIQUED by lights out.

    I enjoyed the triple rhyme from Zoot.

    Thanks one and all.

  71. Caroline

    AP @2 I am a bit disturbed to find that the definition being at one end or other of the clue is a misconception of mine. I thought it was a rule and that 5 down’s GENTLE was just plain wrong. But no, the thin end of the wedge apparently. Or would that be the middle?

  72. Pino

    AP#2, Caroline#72
    Could the definition of 5d be “kind inside intelligent leader”, an &lit?

  73. Lord Jim

    Caroline @72: in probably more than 99% of clues, the definition is at the beginning or end, so it is a handy rule of thumb. But it’s not actually a rule, it’s just the way clues happen to work. Because clues usually consist of wordplay and a definition, they are normally in the form of [wordplay + definition] or [definition + wordplay]. But if the setter can think of another, fair, way to structure the clue, as with GENTLE, there’s nothing to stop them doing so.

    As I mentioned @36, Pasquale likes to do this. One of my favourites of his is “Put wild dog in here (5)” for DINGO, which personally I think is brilliant.

  74. Etu

    LJ 75,

    I think that the example that you give is excellent too. It’s no more than a very unexpectedly direct instruction to the solver as to how to fill in the grid, which must have generated many an outburst when realised.

    However, I share Caroline’s concerns about 5d. This seems to be another of these perhaps hybrid or nested clues, where in place of the expected definition is a further clue as to how to solve it, “kind inside”. Pino’s suggestion produces this too, I think.

  75. pianola

    Galoot is a favorite word in our household. (Childhoods with Warner Bros. Yosemite Sam cartoons?) Ms. P used it when defining “claim jumper” for the Omnificent Dictionary in Limerick Form (OEDILF.com):
    Why, you dirty, hornswoggling galoot!
    This land’s mine, clear from here to the butte.
    Any claim jumper tries
    To say otherwise lies.
    Thieving varmint! Vamoose or I’ll shoot.

  76. Cellomaniac

    I loved the juxtaposition of Mitz#43’s parody using GALOOT and Oofyprosser’s “irritating” complaint at#44.

    And thanks pianola#77 for the related limerick, and introducing me to the OEDILF – what a project.

    This puzzle was anything but crude. Brill, in fact, including the disturbing clue for 23/22 MARCUS AURELIUS – no kings, please. Thanks P&m for the Wednesday whimsy.

  77. gladys

    Just heard Yosemite Sam describe Bugs Bunny as a long-eared galoot.

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