Paul’s email to his subscribers classed this as 7/10 in terms of difficulty, which seems about right.
It took Timon and I an hour and a half to complete the puzzle, and I’m left with one answer I can’t properly parse, so your suggestions are more than usually welcome. We got a bit fixated on JUST THE TICKET for 8 down, which held us up for a while, although we couldn’t parse it. Luckily Timon saw SLAP AND TICKLE and after that we were able to complete the puzzle.
| ACROSS | ||
| 1 | BITTER | Cold sore (6) |
| Double definition. | ||
| 4 | See 10 | |
| 9, 11 | PINE MARTEN | Weasel’s relative staff and I put back in absurdly long hole? (4,6) |
| MEN and I (all rev.) inside PAR TEN (absurdly long hole in golf). | ||
| 10, 4 | HELICOPTER PARENT | Egg beater father damaged — might he be coddling? (10,6) |
| A charade of HELICOPTER ( |
||
| 11 | See 9 | |
| 12 | PINPRICK | Tiny spot that’s pink on leg (8) |
| A reversed charade: PIN is leg, and PRICK is “pink” – one of 8 different meanings of this word in Chambers. | ||
| 13 | MESCALINE | Drug that’s popular filling plate beside me (9) |
| IN (popular) inside SCALE (plate) after ME. | ||
| 15, 25 | ANDY CAPP | Old strip with hat in yellow and pink, primarily (4,4) |
| CAP in AND Y(ellow) P(ink). This cartoon strip has appeared in the Daily Mirror and Sunday Mirror since 1957. | ||
| 16 | JURA | Three quarters of twelve people on a Hebridean isle (4) |
| JUR(y) A. Of course, a jury in the Hebrides, or in Scotland anyway, would not necessarily have 12 people: Scottish juries in criminal cases have 15. | ||
| 17 | STUD POKER | Game, one prodding virile chap? (4,5) |
| A cryptic definition; one poking a stud (a virile chap) could be said to be a stud poker. | ||
| 21 | AGNOSTIC | One doesn’t believe it: number reversed in account (8) |
| IT SONG (number) (rev) in AC (account). | ||
| 22 | PIDDLE | Wee like wee? (6) |
| 24, 1 down | GREEN WELLY BRIGADE | Circling oil platform, sustainable power demanded — privileged few going to the country? (5,5,7) |
| RIG (oil platform) inside GREEN (sustainable) WELLY (power) BADE (demanded). It’s worth quoting the Chambers definition of “green welly” in full: “a student or other (young) person, typically of the landed class, whose noticeably preferred footwear is wellingtons, esp of a sturdy green variety, suggesting recent arrival from or imminent departure for a rural property (orig university sl; derogatory)”. | ||
| 25 | See 15 | |
| 26 | TOLEDO | Reflective poem set in Spanish city (6) |
| ODE LOT (rev). I wasn’t entirely sure that “lot” means “set”, but it does, especially in the context of an auction. | ||
| 27 | CHARGE | Storm damage (6) |
| Double definition, with “storm” being a verb and “damage” bearing one of its secondary meanings – cost. | ||
| DOWN | ||
| 1 | See 24 | |
| 2 | TWEET | Message to take down, quickly read out? (5) |
| I’m really not sure about the wordplay here. I thought we might be looking for a homophone (“read out”) but I can’t see one. It was “to eat”: thanks Gonzo @1. | ||
| 3 | ETHANOL | Fuel compared to first of oil in middle of well (7) |
| THAN O(il) inside (w)EL(l). | ||
| 5 | ARCANE | Mysterious vessel in time capsized (6) |
| CAN inside ERA (rev). | ||
| 6 | ESPERANTO | Tongue in pain ultimately, doctor operates to sew it up (9) |
| (pai)N in *OPERATES. “Doctor” is the anagram indicator. | ||
| 7 | TREACLY | Overly sweet claret drunk with last of sherry (7) |
| (sherr)Y in *CLARET. | ||
| 8 | SLAP AND TICKLE | Combination of painful and exciting strokes? That’s it! (4,3,6) |
| An extended cryptic definition, using the informal meaning of “it” (sexual activity). | ||
| 14 | CORPOREAL | Bodily hole in shade of pink (9) |
| PORE in CORAL. We did wonder if “bodily” was doing double definition, but you can have pores in non-bodily contexts. | ||
| 16 | JOGTROT | Pace jerk has wrong, upped (7) |
| TORT (wrong) (rev) after JOG (jerk). | ||
| 18 | DIPTYCH | Lower temperature necessary in the end above church altarpiece (7) |
| DIP (lower) T(emperature) (necessar)Y CH(urch). | ||
| 19 | ECLIPSE | Better shears cutting coat of ewe (7) |
| CLIPS inside E(w)E. You have to read “better” and “eclipse” as verbs. | ||
| 20 | STEWED | Drunk was irritated (6) |
| Double definition, although I thought “irritated” was a bit of a stretch. | ||
| 23 | DECOR | Look back in anger after Nov 31, fancifully? (5) |
| (ange)R after DEC 0. There being no such date as November 31, Dec 0 makes equal sense. | ||
Thanks bridgesong and Paul.The homophone in 2d is ‘to eat’.
Compared to the previous Paul a couple of weeks previously, I found this rather heavy-going in places, requiring some time afterwards to finish parsing some of the clues.
I got started with ANDY CAPP, and wondered at the time how non-Brits would fare with that one. GREEN WELLY BRIGADE, another Britishism (limited to England, apparently), was tougher – I needed at least half of the crossers for that. I liked the clues to PINE MARTEN, ANDY CAPP, PIDDLY, TREACLY, SLAP AND TICKLE and ECLIPSE the most.
It took me a while to ‘get’ Dec 0 (in DECOR) from Nov 31. I first looked at Nov 31 as a fanciful name for Dec 1 (being the day after Nov 30), but it is clearly meant to be a fanciful extra day inserted at that point, in which case it could alternatively be called Dec 0.
Thanks to Paul and bridgesong.
(In 10a/4a, I think ‘father damaged’ is PA RENT.)
I had PIDDLY for 22.
It’s Piddly not piddle, which makes sense small and like pee, wee!!
In 10,4 it’s PA RENT – took me a while too.
I think ‘was irritated’ is the second def. in 20, still a slight stretch.
The PARENT in HELICOPTER PARENT is pa= father + rent = damaged. This is a very common phrase here in the US.
[Does anyone know what has happened to this weeks Prize?]
Thanks to Paul and bridgesong. Tough going or me. For 24/1 I did pencil in GREEN and BRIGADE but did not get WELLY and also failed on DECOR.
SPanza@7 https://crosswords-static.guim.co.uk/gdn.cryptic.20201219.pdf
I finished this but it took a while and a good deal of head scratching. Still not sure about some – 2 in particular. Thank you Paul, you never disappoint and thank you Bridgesong for the clarifications. I guess the jury will be out for a while about piddly/piddle, I put the latter but I have an idea Ant may well be right.
Yes, I had PIDDLY, a typical Paul format: once you see “like” think ending in Y
Thanks to Paul and bridgesong.
SPanza@7 However I can’t see clue for 14ac and I wonder if there are special instructions not shown – I will wait for my paper to arrive later this morning
Thanks Dave Ellison I will try your link!
The WELlY answer took an age. Here – and NZ whose capital is named after Arthur Wellesley – they are gumboots, and no such elite mob exists. Interestingly the Cambridge dictionary defines gumboot as ‘old-fashioned for wellibgton.’ The boots of the duke himself of course were leather not rubber.
Spanza, Dave Ellison, and anyone else looking for the new Prize: there’s a better-formatted version here. https://uploads.guim.co.uk/2020/12/15/Xmas_Jumbo_Cryptic_2020_web.pdf
I found this solve a bit slow in places – and actually put it aside until yesterday when I hadn’t made much progress last weekend. But I liked a lot of the clues including 10/4a HELICOPTER PARENT (more and more of them hovering around towards the latter part of my teaching career). I didn’t know the term GREEN WELLY BRIGADE 24a/1d – perhaps a little like Tree Changers here??? So I had to use word play and crossers. Because I thought 1d was BRITAIN for a while, it took me ages to get 13a MESCALINE, one of my last ones in. 15/25a ANDY CAPP comics were around in Australia when I was young, Alan B@2, so I did manage to see that one eventually. Thanks to Paul and Bridgesong.
DNF, just barely… -0.5 XOO, having entered DECIR, thinking along Dec 1 lines (and perhaps some unknown word/meaning); still unconvinced by the reasoning there… think Nov 29 would’ve worked better… Nov 31 just seems an error to me. Parsed the rest except power/welly (a DNK Britishism, so just a guess). Took a while… definitely a workout, but fun.
The Guardian site has PIDDLY as the soln, so unclear what the debate is?
As an AGNOSTIC, would quibble (or at least clarify) re the defn. Agnostic!=atheist… as indicated in lexico, an agnostic “claims neither faith nor disbelief in God”; it’s not that I don’t believe, but that I believe the true nature of the universe is currently unknown (and potentially unknowable). Given how badly we’ve botched something like the pandemic, hard for me to accept we’ve got “ultimate reality” fully sussed!
Lots of creative clues to choose from today… fav is PINE MARTEN, for the whimsically wily construct, but even more for refs to a couple creature cousins 🙂
Thx to Paul, Bridgesong, et al, for the enjoyment!
Oops, meant “Nov 30 would’ve worked better…”
Yep piddly for sure…not the puzzle, which was quite meaty. Can’t remember how long it took, but at least as long as Bridgesong and Timon I’m sure. Hadn’t heard of the green welly lot..nice send-up expression. Andy Capp I remember from the 60s, haven’t seen the strip for decades. And I was too thick to parse Dec 0 r, d’oh. All good fun, thanks both.
Very pleased to have completed this Paul prize — I usually have difficulty with Paul’s crosswords and seldom complete any of them. (Mudd is more my speed.) Anyhow, my favourites included ANDY CAPP, ARCANE, and ECLIPSE. I couldn’t parse PINE MARTEN so thanks Bridgesong for that.
Can a US solver get “green Wellie brigade”? Yes, but I have no idea how. It probably has something to do with reading the articles in the Guardian and the Times, as well as doing the puzzles.
I thought this was rather easy for a Paul, and was surprised to finish in little more than 30 minutes, including piddly. I really loved the par ten clue, although for some of us every hole is a par 10.
A little point about 10,4 – egg beater is slang for HELICOPTER, not vice versa.
Thanks bridgesong, particularly for parsing DECOR, where I hadn’t clocked that Nov 31 doesn’t exist, so a better clue than I thought.
I’m another who had PIDDLE; it’s uncharacteristic of Paul (or the Ed.) to have left some doubt about this solution.
Overall, a very enjoyable puzzle – he is good, isn’t he.
OddOtter @ 17
Completely agree with you re definition of AGNOSTIC.
Thanks to all who pointed out my various errors, which I have now corrected.
I did wonder about AGNOSTIC, but decided it was vague enough to pass.
This link shows the special instructions for the Christmas Maskarade.
https://uploads.guim.co.uk/2020/12/15/Xmas_Jumbo_Cryptic_2020_web.pdf
Happy Christmas
Thanks to all those who have given the link to today’s jumbo prize crossie. Thanks also to Bridgesong and Timon for their sterling work. Also ta to Gonzo@1 – I had interpreted 2d as saying “tweet” quickly and getting something like “twit” (tuwit tuwoo etc) – one meaning of which is to tease, ie “take down.” I was not entirely happy but settled for it. Kicking myself now. Cheers Paul. You are a very great setter and very great fun, too. Happy Christmas and a happier and healthier 2021 to all.
If the green welly lot are landed, who is doing the put-down/send-up?
Should compilers really make comments on their puzzles to a dedicated following prior to it being published?
Re agnosticism and believing, hmmm. I’m an a-theist, non-believer, in the literal sense; ie I don’t ever believe anything without evidence. Otoh, the universe, life and consciousness are wonderful mysteries, so I’m open to evidence about anything.
In a coding language I use, it is possible to say (paraphrased!) ‘tell me the zeroth day of month x’ and it will return the last day of the precious month. (Similar with the zeroth Monday of a month – that’s the last Monday of the previous.) I got *very* confused by 31 Nov – that is 1 Dec, not 0 Dec, which should be 30 Nov!
Pedro: I think as long as no spoilers or hints are given, it’s ok. I like talking to solvers as they look at my Genius puzzles, but I won’t give any clues.
Re 26a
My assumption was that “lot” = “set” as in film lot or film set.
Pedro @28: I don’t think that Paul comments on his puzzles before they’re published. I’m on his email list but I don’t participate in his Zoom chats, or take advantage of his facility to download the solution (perhaps I should have done that this week!). Did you mean perhaps that he shouldn’t comment before the solution is published?
Straight up from me, there were some great clues here, but also some that to me were pretty unfair.
ANDY CAPP is outside my age range, I do vaguely remember seeing some of the strips in the English Sunday newspapers that occasionally turned up in my youth in Ireland. But the wordplay cluing just doesn’t make sense. I wrote in INKY CAPS just to finish the crossword. I do not see how anyone younger than me (and I am already mid-50s) and/or without the benefit of English upbringing is going to have a chance of cracking this.
Same for DECOR, Nov 31 Dec 0 ( = does not equal in most coding languages). I wasted a lot of time on this, eventually biffing in DECOR.
I eventually saw PIDDLY, which is OK I guess, but hardly the most eloquent of clues.
For some reason I couldn’t get clips = shears for ages so it took a long time to make ECLIPSE. No complaints about this thought, a perfectly good clue.
I biffed in TWEET as well without any idea what the clue was about, that one aside my problems were concentrated in the SE corner. That quadrant aside there was much to enjoy. I liked the PINE MARTEN (occasional golfer here, the idea of a par 10 made me smile), the HELICOPTER PARENT (thanks Iroquois for the rent = damaged), even the SLAP AND TICKLE.
Thanks Paul, bridgesong and all the learned contributors on here. Season’s greetings and happy holiday solving to all.
Soup @ 30: Thanks for elucidation of 0 day.
[re hints: I could be wrong but I seem to recall a few weeks ago a hint on the theme at a Zoom event which the blogger noted. It is nice to have a bit of communication with compilers but I worry its getting a bit too cliquish]
A 7/10 seems to be my favourite type of Paul puzzle. Looks impossible at first pass but nearly all solved over the next few days. A DNF as was thinking 1 Dec for 23 down. A big thank you to Paul and bridgesong.
bridgesong: I got the impression it was commented on before the Saturday of publication of the puzzle (something like ‘this week I …’). Nothing wrong of course with anything after publication of the answers.
Sorry it was a Friday 20th Nov:
“The email advertising Paul’s Zoom session tonight (see his website) has the title “Did I do this on purpose?” and says “Looking back over this puzzle there are a couple of coincidences.”…
…I think these must be the unusual use of the trick in the linked clues 8/9 and 11/12, and the intersecting MADEs in 12a and 2d. He also says “I could probably dumped two more solutions in a third. Can you see where?”
I see now that it was probably between puzzle and answer publication. 🙂
Thanks to all who came to my assistance. I did not realise it was a Maskarade Christmas special. Good luck to all who attempt it!
Epee Sharkey @33 (and bridgesong): I parsed ANDY CAPP as AND ( = with) + [CAP ( = hat) inside Y(ellow) and P(ink)]
We seem to have had quite a bit of TWEETing recently, but I liked this one the best. I wonder what will be next… To itch? To ice? To irk??
My other favourite was ESPERANTO, although (or perhaps because) my first thought of a definition was ‘tongue in pain’!
Thanks Paul and bridgesong
I tend to agree with eg. Hamish@30 about Dec 0 = Nov 30 not 31 but, OTOH, it is clearly solvable and crosswords are a test of imagination rather than maths and I’m firmly in the non-Ximenean camp when it comes to fair or not.
22 really should be Piddly. If you read the clue carefully the definiton has to be the adjective, not the noun. Trying to read it the other way round doesnt work.
Thanks to Paul for yet another great workout and, of course, Bridgesong for doing the work of composing the blog.
Paul on top form and at the higher end of his difficulty scale for me. Lots to enjoy and ponder. Unlike many who comment here I am a lover of homophones and the more outrageous the better (I’m the same with Spoonerisms) so the clever TWEET was a joy. Never heard of HELICOPTER PARENT or GREEN WELLY BRIGADE but both were gettable from the wordplay and crossers. Also enjoyed ANDY CAPP for nostalgic reasons. My late Father was a stereotyper so brought back all the newspapers when he came home from work in the early hours, the Andy Capp cartoon was one of the fist things I looked at. Once my Father retired I have never bought a Mirror, so have no idea if the cartoon survives; am I fickle or what?!! Many thanks to Paul and bridgesong!
12a. I too wrongly put in PIDDLE. I’m more used to “piddling” as an adjective as in “The Lion and Albert”.
“They didn’t think much to the ocean.
The waves they were piddlin’ and small.
There were no wrecks and nobody drownded.
In fact nothing to laugh at at all”
Thanks to Paul and bridgesong and Gonzo. I didn’t parse 2 and 12d.
In his email about a Zoom meeting, Paul said in relation to this puzzle: “what makes a clue or puzzle difficult?” I think the answer for individual clues is one that needs GK in both definition and wordplay to get to the answer. So, I didn’t know the expression HELICOPTER PARENT, but I also didn’t know the egg beater = HELICOPTER. Thus, it was impossible to solve ‘cold’, although with crossers and a word search I could get the solution.
I did like the PAR TEN, and a bit of SLAP AND TICKLE. I just took the reasoning for the DEC 0 as: Nov 31st doesn’t exist but neither does DEC 0 but in that strange world the latter might follow on from the former (fancifully).
Thanks Paul and bridgesong.
I don’t know about 7/10 on Paul’s difficulty scale. I’m impressed by vinyl1 @21 finishing this in just over half an hour – for most of the week I was staring at a grid with far less than 50% filled in, and I was going nowehere. Then Nov 31 finally clicked (yippee!) and I completed the SE corner, but it was still grim up north.
Then I got a break: in another discussion on this site someone referred me to a puzzle from 2017 where I found out, by happy coincidence (it really wasn’t a hint or a spolier; in fact it didn’t click until the next day), that egg beaters meant HELICOPTERs, and suddenly I was off and away riding on that whirly-bird. Still couldn’t get the weasel’s relative, so a DNF for me after all that agonising. But PAR TEN was very funny once I saw it.
Also amused by Hamish/Soup @30 and others trying to make ‘sense’ out of Nov 31 & Dec 0. It doesn’t make much sense, because it’s whimsical!
I tend to disagree with those who don’t accept “one doesn’t believe” for AGNOSTIC. Chambers: person believing that we know nothing beyond material phenomena, that a creator, creative cause and an unseen world are things unknown or unknowable. Second definition: a sceptic (“a person who tends to disbelieve”). Even without the second defn, I reckon that someone who believes “that we know nothing beyond material phenomena” can be defined in a crossword as “one doesn’t believe” (with “in non-material things such as a god or gods” tacit).
I, too, wondered what “damaged” was doing in 10,4, HELICOPTER PARENT, but discussing the puzzle with another solver after finishing, it was explained to me.
@Julie, I don’t think tree changers are the same as the Green Welly Brigade, who have accommodation in town as well as a country retreat.
In 15,25, “with” stands for AND. The containment doesn’t work properly if you use the “and” from the clue.
In 15ac, TOLEDO, I thought of ‘that lot/set’ referring to a clique one isn’t part of.
I read 8dn, SLAP AND TICKLE as a double definition. I was expecting a few people to say they didn’t know the expression, but not so far.
In 20dn, STEWED, the second def is “was irritated”, isn’t it?
I don’t see how people think PIDDLE works. It has to be PIDDLY.
[Re Paul’s Zoom sessions, I find it’s usually a straight choice between solving the crossword or attending and having it spoilt if not already finished. I have only managed to finish it once before attending, filling in the last answer one minute before it started. I would far rather he talked about the previous puzzle, once we’ve all had a proper chance to solve it.]
Robi @43
Re DECOR: in order to make the clue work, I think we have to (fancifully) invent or create a new day between November and December, and that day could be called (equally) either Nov 31 or Dec 0. These ‘dates’ are therefore equivalent in this fancifully made-up scenario, and I’m sure this is the way the clue is meant to work.
Tony @46
I knew the expression SLAP AND TICKLE, but not (until now) as referring to it – only something that could lead up to it.
Thanks Alan B @47 for the clarification. I guess then that the surface reading of ‘after’ would have to mean ‘for’ as in named after/for?
Robi @49
I think the surface reading of ‘after’ is the natural one, i.e. ‘following’, which is the same as its meaning in the construction of the answer: R comes after DEC O.
Robi & AlanB. I don’t think the ‘after’ has anything to do with the notional sequence of the whimsical date(s) – unless it’s doing double duty. To me it’s just referring to the positioning of the R ‘after’ the DEC0.
I’m not surprised that this clue has stirred up so much doubt. I think it took me about two hours of solid cogitation before I managed to convince myself! The best way of looking at it is to imagine a non-existent day between the end of November and the beginning of December. OK? Now, what would be a good way of naming this imaginary day? Well, we could give it a name which shows that it comes after November 30. Or we could give it a name which shows that it comes before December 1. As it’s an imaginary day, it doesn’t really matter what we call it, so how about giving it both names?
ANDY CAPP ran in my local paper and probably others in North America, so some US and Canadian solvers will be able to fill it in. Solvers seem to be talking about the strip as something in the past, but google tells me that it’s still being printed.
How does “power” = WELLY?
Valentine: https://wordhistories.net/2019/02/14/give-some-willy/
[The url for that website has a spelling mistake, which of course I was unable to correct.]
Vinyl1@21: This American solver also got GREEN WELLY BRIGADE once most of the crossers were in, though I had to look up what it meant, and I had to stare at it a long time before I got close to the parsing. Oil platform gave me “well” which was serendipitous, though coming back to the completed* puzzle after days I did see “rig” inside “bade.” But how does “welly” mean power?
It didn’t help that for a little while I had “PI–ED” for 20d (the blanks weren’t really blank, they were S’s). Is that a synonym for “irritated” over there? I also was trying “EJECT” for 2d–“message to take down” could be “REJECT,” “quickly read” is “R,” and it’s “out,” with “read out” also being the definition. It’s no more convoluted than some of the actual answers!
Looked at a list of Hebridean islands for 16ac and that and Green Welly were the only ones where I felt my Americanness. Andy Capp used to run in my newspaper back home (maybe it still does) and “slap and tickle” is a Squeeze song, though I have to ask, do people in the UK actually call sex “It” outside of the Nancy Mitford novel where one of the young sisters asks Fanny about It once she’s married? I guess there’s “doin’ it” as in the Prince song.
Anyway a particularly nice one I thought, and surprisingly me-friendly for a Paul prize, especially after the demoralizing one from last time where I got four answers and then came here and found everyone talking about how easy it was! Particularly liked 18d–smooth surface, all the wordplay is natural and in order, but it’s surprising because the word has an unusual pattern. 19d also very nice.
*Except I also had “piddle.”
sheffield hatter@53: Thanks for answering my question about “WELLY” before I’d finished posting it! And, well, I was never going to figure that out.
matt w: The least I could do after crowing about how easy the previous Paul prize had been – sorry about that!
Concur re STEWED=”was irritated”, which I think a better fit to defns in major refs (i.e. taking it as past tense verb rather than adjective).
Appreciate discussions re Nov 31, though as a math grad AND programmer of >30yrs, still find myself firmly in the Nov31==Dec1 camp 🙂
Re AGNOSTIC: First would point out, just as w/other belief systems & religions, there are different flavors of agnosticism; a dictionary may include multiple defns, but applying a particular one as a blanket statement to all agnostics is potentially problematic (just as applying a tenet of one specific Christian faith to ALL Christians might be). Guess my main quibble with the clue would be the definite “one doesn’t” rather than “one might not”; some agnostics (myself among them) believe there may well be a “higher power”, but that current religions are not satisfactory in describing its nature. This is quite different from an atheistic view that there is decidedly not a higher power, which is why agnostics sometimes chafe at being described as non believers; I personally prefer to simply say I believe differently. I think this is akin to comparitive religion, where technically a person of one faith might describe that of another as a “non believer” since that other doesn’t ascribe to their own faith, but at the same time that other person would surely object to being call a non believer; again, it’s more a matter of believing differently. I suppose it ultimately comes down to believe/belief and disbelieve/disbelief being rather loaded words, subject to a variety of (mis)interpretation… and thus care is required when using them wrt matters as fundamental/personal as religions and belief systems. (And FYI, not at all trying to criticize anyone… just to offer some elucidation, as I find the term quite often not well understood by others.)
matt w re “it”: One of my favorite amusing bits in the Harry Potter films (which are mostly quite straight laced) is the clearly intentional double entendre when Ron asks Harry “so, did you and Ginny do it?”… i.e. hide the half-blood prince’s book.
sheffield hatter @51
I said myself that ‘after’ in the clue to 23d indicates that R comes after DEC O to make the answer-word, but I acknowledge that your explanation of the imaginary extra day is fuller and clearer than my brief explanation.
[Alan B. Yes indeed, but I hadn’t read yours @50 because I was typing mine @51 at the time; we posted in the same minute! Yours @47 was very much in line with my way of thinking. I should have made it clearer that when I addressed my comment to both you and Robi, it was not because I wanted to put you right, but just as a way of interposing myself in your conversation. Much as I might have done if we had met while ordering drinks at the bar in the pub. Not much chance of that these days.]
[SH @61
Thank you.
In the pub? I’m in Kent!]
OddOtter – re “believe” – I agree that it comes down to how we interpret believe, rather than how we define AGNOSTIC.
In the everyday sense it can mean little more than think/be of the opinion.
eg ‘Has sheffield hatter finished the Jumbo yet?’
‘Yes, I believe so.’
But in more devout circles ‘to believe’ = ‘to be a believer’ = ‘to have a firm and fervent faith’ in the doctrines espoused by that particular fellowship. It’s in that context that an agnostic would generally not want to count him/herself amongst the ‘true believers’.
As a postscript, I believe (although of course, as with my other beliefs, I could be wrong 😉 ) that Paul was attracted to the idea of writing the clue with that particular phrasing by this….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNrLI3OBwg
… a well-known UK sitcom called ‘One Foot in the Grave’ in which the main character, Victor Meldrew, regularly exclaims in exasperation ‘I DON’T BELIEVE IT!’ One might imagine him doing so, for example, on learning that the local bank had (once again) got his account number wrong.
matt w @ 55: re your question of whether PI—ED can mean irritated over here – British English speakers would usually add an ‘off’ to give it that meaning, while to convey the sense of sozzled (does one say that in the States?) no off is required.
[Alan B: Commiserations!]
OddOtter @58. I have carefully read your explanation of your agnosticism and thank you for sharing with us.
You say “a dictionary may include multiple defns, but applying a particular one as a blanket statement to all agnostics is potentially problematic”, to which I would say that no one is applying any such thing. Here we are just doing crosswords! “One doesn’t believe” is a legitimate way of cluing the answer for 21a, as would have been “sceptic”; both find support in Chambers. Not only that, but the clue specifies “one”, not all.
I can appreciate that Paul’s definition for AGNOSTIC will have grated on your nerves (I hope you weren’t STEWED about it), but I can guarantee that he didn’t mean any disrespect to you or people who think like you. But I also think it unlikely that, in the event that this word finds its way into a future grid, the definition will be any closer to your way of thinking about belief systems than it was last Saturday.
[essexboy @63. There’s probably a name for the rhetorical device whereby if you are going to give an example to illustrate the point you are making, you should make it as unlikely or ridiculous as possible, in order to make it memorable. I’m going to try to make a start on the Maskarade Christmas special now, so you probably won’t hear from me for several days.]
Re AGNOSTIC, wouldn’t say grated, and certainly not STEWED about it, just felt some analysis warranted… hence “(or at least clarify)” in my initial comment. Would guess a similarly terse statement re another major religion/belief might engender comparable discussion. Anyway, have said my piece, and glad to have had others respectfully consider it.
[ Would encourage the hesitant to try the Maskarade puzzle. Am part way and it’s quite fun. Nuff said… don’t want to spoil you it! ]
Puerile toilet humour aside, I usually admire Paul for his originality and wit but I didn’t think this puzzle ranked among his best: maybe 6/10 for quality and entertainment value combined.
I don’t have a problem with British cultural references in a puzzle published in a British newspaper. Occasionally I look at American puzzles, whose setters make no concessions to a non-US solvership. On the other hand, I would have welcomed a hint that US slang in involved in 10a/4a.
I agree with Tony Collman @46 on the parsing of 15a/25a but the fact “and” is used at all in this clue when that same sequence of letters appears in the answer seems rather sloppy style; 8d, of course, is an even worse example of this. 23d makes no sense to me: I can just about see how “Dec 0” might be considered synonymous with “Nov 31”, but not coming after it. Finally 22a: I’m not really annoyed by such clues (as I am, for example, by Tramp’s sexism) but I do find them very tedious – and think this particular one is actually quite poor anyway.
Thanks to setter and blogger.
gofirstmate @68. “I can just about see how ‘Dec 0’ might be considered synonymous with ‘Nov 31’, but not coming after it.” In the blog that bridgesong has taken the trouble to produce for us, it is quite clear that ‘after’ refers to the placing of the parts, with R (final letter of anger) coming *after* DEC0. This was also discussed by Alan B (see 47ff) and myself @51.
I can understand that you might have got fed up with reading the numerous comments here, though you mention that you read Tony Collman @46, but if you’ve a gripe about the clues, it would be sensible to read the blog before coming here for a rant, n’est-ce pas? Because there’s always the possibility that it’s you that’s wrong, not the setter. If I may just borrow from your diatribe, “seems rather sloppy”.
When Tramp referred to you the other day as a troll (http://www.fifteensquared.net/2020/12/15/guardian-cryptic-28317-by-tramp/#comments #71) I thought he was being a bit harsh, but I’m starting to have second thoughts. If you are a genuine commenter, I hope you will think again about how your post might come across to anyone reading it before you hit Post Comment. It’s not just about getting something off your chest, it’s more important to engage with the online community in a civilised manner.
sheffield hatter @69. Point taken. I’m sorry. I didn’t read the blog as carefully as I should. It certainly wasn’t my intention to upset other commenters.
Thanks for getting back to me, gofirstmate.
I’m no authority on the vernacular but, in my experience, “wee” as in small, would be “piddling”, not “piddly”.
Just saying.
[OddOtter @67: Thanks for the encouragement to begin Maskarade’s crossword — I was hesitant but I started — pure genius!]
Jaydee: As a counterpoint, have myself used PIDDLY as an adjective for small/minor/insignificant for decades. Always fascinating how our experiences vary.. a testament to the diversity in our cryptic community.
[ Tony Santucci: 🙂 to return the favor, after your recent FT tip. ]
Jaydee@72
Same here. See me @42 for an example, albeit somewhat antiquated. I put it in to see if there were any other fans of the monologues of Marriott Edgar, performed by Stanley Holloway, out there. Apparently not.
Pino@75 I’m a fan of Albert and the Lion! An English friend used to recite it, though I’ve heard the Holloway version too.
I agree about the definition for STEWED being “was irritated”. Think about the expression “to stew in one’s own juice”.